mic starter kit for tight bugdet (need advice)

[jmastor]

Hello there,

I've been playing with my band for a while and we decided that it is time to start recording
some of our work. We like the idea of diy recording and we think of getting a basic
equipment to start. I read a lot of posts in this forum and i have concluded to some
results, but i would like to take a more specific advice.

So, we are a 3 member instrumental band, guitar, bass and drums. We play alternative rock/surf revival/garage. We want to record live, not seperately. We are in a tight budget, so we do not have much options. Here is the kit i've concluded:

bass drum: AKG D 112
snare: SHURE SM 57
overheads: 2 AUDIO TECHNICA AT2020, panned left and right

guitar: SHURE SM 57
bass: get directly from a passive di, haven't decided yet wich.

i have an m-audio fastrack ultra 8r audio interface.

I was wondering if the overheads i chose will be good at a live recording or they'll mess up
the sound. Thats it... any advise will be helpful. If anyone knows any other mic in this budget that will suit better for our style of playing then i am happy to hear it!

thanks

 

[Supercreep]

Welcome to HR!


Sounds like a pretty solid plan. What is the room you're recording in like?

If it's a really nice room, you could probably use one or more multipattern LDCs and get some really nice depth to the drums, but all in all you have a very strong setup.

If it's not a well-treated room, you will have to be much more flexible with mic placement and rely on your close mics more.

 

[jmastor]

We use to rehearse at two places, which are the possible places of recording.
The problem is, that i am not fully satisfied by any of them as concerned sound.

the first one is a medium studio room in my university... It's walls are all covered
with sound absorving material, maybe more than it should. This makes the drums
sound dead and the overall sound loses its power. To get a full sound, i may need
to close mic each drum, but i can't afford so many mics. Thats what i think, i
am a newby at recordings and i may be wrong.

on the other hand, the second room is completely the opposite. is small but has
no sound absorving materials on the walls. The sound is fuller and powerful but
it gets too messy and its definatelly not good for recording.

For rehearsals, i prefer the second room. But i would not use any of them to record.
A solution may be to put on some curtains to the second room to reduce
the messy sound.

any other ideas ?

 

[DrewPeterson7]

We use to rehearse at two places, which are the possible places of recording.
The problem is, that i am not fully satisfied by any of them as concerned sound.

the first one is a medium studio room in my university... It's walls are all covered
with sound absorving material, maybe more than it should. This makes the drums
sound dead and the overall sound loses its power. To get a full sound, i may need
to close mic each drum, but i can't afford so many mics. Thats what i think, i
am a newby at recordings and i may be wrong.

on the other hand, the second room is completely the opposite. is small but has
no sound absorving materials on the walls. The sound is fuller and powerful but
it gets too messy and its definatelly not good for recording.

For rehearsals, i prefer the second room. But i would not use any of them to record.
A solution may be to put on some curtains to the second room to reduce
the messy sound.

any other ideas ?

Of the two, I'd try recording in the dead room first. The drums may sound dry and weak on their own, but one that might sit better in the mix, and two a little bit of carefully-applied reverb might go a LONG way towards making them sound "bigger" and more "alive." Neither's ideal, but my sense is you're much better off in a room that's too dead than too alive.

Also, are you hoping to record guitar, bass, and drums all at once, or are you open to recording them individually to a click track? If so, this significantly lowers your mic count (down to four, the SM57, a kick mic, and a pair of overheads) and frees you up to experiment a bit more - say, recording both a DI from the bass and a mic'd track with the D112 or SM57 from the same performance, and blending them in your audio workstation.

 

[jmastor]

I was thinking of recording live because i wanted the recording to have that feeling of rehearsal, but doing it seperatelly sure gives me flexibility and helps to get a better result. The good thing is, that i have plenty of time for experimenting in both rooms at live and seperate recording, until i get
the best sound i can with my equipment. The bad thing is, that i am in a very tight budget and i don't have many choices. So, it matters to make the right choices before i buy something.

Thanks a lot for the advice, im gonna purchase that set and try to get the most out of it.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Well, the other big problem with recording live is instrument bleed. With the bass going direct, unless you're also amping it in the room this won't be an issue, but your guitar is going to be fairly audible in your overheads if you're playing at normal rehearsal volume in the same room, which can cause more problems than it's worth...

If your budget is really tight, is it possible you could rent or borrow these mics from somewhere before you bought them, just to see how your approach worked?

 

[mshilarious]

Does AT sell the AT2021 separate from that 20/21 pack? If so, and you're doing live overheads, the 21s are less likely to bean the drummer "overhead" if on a less-than-sturdy stand.

PS surf rules!

 

[moresound]

As for the bass Di a good passive one would be the Radial pro di for under $100.
or the Radial JDI for about $150.

 

[darrin_h2000]

The best thing to do there is to switch the bass drum mic to a LDD that will work for vocals too...switch the AT2020s to AT3035s...they are better and since they have been discontinued they are going for $50 each.

 

[moresound]

Just tonight I tried a MXL V6 in front of the kick (not inside) and it sounded dam good, not to shabby on vocals too!

 

[jmastor]

Does AT sell the AT2021 separate from that 20/21 pack? If so, and you're doing live overheads, the 21s are less likely to bean the drummer "overhead" if on a less-than-sturdy stand.

PS surf rules!

i cannot fully understand your english. Do you mean that the AT2021 are not suitable for live recordings ?

As for the di, my audio card has an instrument input, do you think i could jack the bass directly there without using a di ??

 

[antichef]

I think "bean the drummer" means hit the drummer in the head, or somehow fall and injure the drummer. Normally something you want to avoid. The 2021s are smaller and lighter - less likely to cause the mic stand to fall over.

Last week, I had to put counterweights on the opposite end of the booms on my cheap mic stands to keep them from falling over when I use C414s (similar size to 2020s, I think), but when I switched to MC012s (similar size to 2021, I think), I didn't need the counterweights anymore. Of course, I've got cheap mic stands.

 

[mshilarious]

i cannot fully understand your english. Do you mean that the AT2021 are not suitable for live recordings ?

"bean" means "hit on the head", originally it just meant "head". In baseball, a "beanball" is a ball a pitcher purposely throws at the batter's head. The AT2021 is smaller, lighter, and balances on a stand better. I understand the mics are otherwise very similar.

If you're going to put large microphones over people's heads, you need heavy stands to make sure they won't fall. Many people don't like to carry heavy stands around to gigs. Instead, use smaller microphones.

As for the di, my audio card has an instrument input, do you think i could jack the bass directly there without using a di ??

If it's a true high-impedance instrument input, then yes. Should be at least 400K ohm, ideally 1M ohm.

 

[dgatwood]

"bean" means "hit on the head", originally it just meant "head". In baseball, a "beanball" is a ball a pitcher purposely throws at the batter's head. The AT2021 is smaller, lighter, and balances on a stand better. I understand the mics are otherwise very similar.

True, though the headbasket would presumably have some effect on the sound.

 

[darrin_h2000]

If you're going to put large microphones over people's heads, you need heavy stands to make sure they won't fall. Many people don't like to carry heavy stands around to gigs. Instead, use smaller microphones.
.

Ive been installing desk flanges on the ceiling and suspending the mics with goosenecks...its about $150 less per mic to do it that way.

 

[Shadow_7]

We want to record live, not seperately.

Whenever one says live I'm always thinking audience perspective capture. Not individual voices on their own channel and mix to taste. If the audience thing is what you're after just use a Zoom H2 or H4 or H4n or other field recorder like device. Place it relative to where your audience would be and let it do it's thing. It's generally the cheapest option, since you get mics + preamps + converters and more in a pocket-ish sized device. Battery powered so no one is tripping over cords and other things. Now if you need the individual voices to feed a PA system, then that's probably not an option. Although you may still want to consider it just to get a resultant capture versus some mix that might have little relation to what your onlookers might be hearing.

 

[Supercreep]

Ive been installing desk flanges on the ceiling and suspending the mics with goosenecks...its about $150 less per mic to do it that way.

Best. Idea. Ever.

Dude, PM me some pics and a parts list, if you don't mind. That could free up some serious floorspace over here.

 

[mshilarious]

Best. Idea. Ever.

Dude, PM me some pics and a parts list, if you don't mind. That could free up some serious floorspace over here.

Use lapel or choir mics, those are designed to hang. AT has a huge range of them.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Use lapel or choir mics, those are designed to hang. AT has a huge range of them.

I use them for all overhead and vocal mics...the LDCs...and you never worry about a stand tipping over...I am careful to always run a screw into a floor joist so even I could hang from a flange.