Mic recommendations for acoustic guitar

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Just thought i would get off the subject and get more on the subject of what i like as a guitar mic.

I have not used too many mics for accoustic guitar. Like i said before, i have used the ECM8000 with decent results, but mic placement for omnis i found is a little different. With traditional accoustic guitar miking techniques with the ECM8000 i found the sound to be a bit tubby sounding compared to what i like. However ive heard alot about the over the shoulder technique that seems to work quite well with micing accoustics, but i have never tried this technique. The problem i see with miking this way, is first of all (here yah go bbZ) when you are miking over the shoulder it can add a bit of distance, which will make you need to turn the gain up a bit to make up the difference, thus giving more noise and probably a hissy noise. This is probably true unless im mistaken about the over the shoulder technique's distancing. Also, like what was mentioned before, the room is a big deal when miking with omnis. If again you are putting more distance with the over the shoulder technique you are also added more room sound to the source. This can have really undesirable effects if your room isnt that great. This is just some things to consider. But if $35 is what you have then i still believe this will be the best mic for your situation.

The mic that i mainly use for accoustic guitar is the AT4033. The AT4033 gives a very warm and full sound to the guitar, leaving the nice crisp top end that you need. Although not suitable for all genres of music, it is the mic that i use most for accoustic. Besides that, its a great mic to use on almost anything. Its a very versatile mic. Many will argue that it doesnt do a very good job on vocals compared to others, but i have found that for some people it has been the perfect mic. I consider it a warm mic for vocals, where i compare a mic like the C1 more of a smooth sounding mic. But some will argue that the C1 is warm and the AT4033 is smooth. Thats one of the problems you get when people explain things like warm, smooth, bright, cold, is everyone has their own opinion of what each of those actually mean. The AT4033 has also worked great for me as drum overheads. I remember reading a thread a while ago, probably about a year ago, saying that the AT4033 has a sound similiar to a AKG c414. No im not claiming that it sounds exactly like a c414 but has the same characteristics of sounds as a 414.

The C1 i have also found to be very useful color as a accoustic guitar mic. I rarely find types of music where i would use this in my area, but im sure alot of other areas where theres more of a pop scene, i think this mic has a pretty good color for this. Its almost completely opposite of a AT4033 in my opinion on guitar. Its a very rich and bright sound that i love to hear on alot of albums. Very smooth highs which gives the guitar a nice sparkle. This might be the sound your looking for and the price on these are very reasonable ;). It would also serve as a great vocal mic for you. Im guessing however that other mics from studio projects, like the B series may have a similiar effect if you need a lower cost mic. However, this is a theory with no actual experience. Maybe someone here can help you out with that.

As far as other mics go, SM57s work ok. I think they are horrible when micing accoustics live but they can do a pretty good job. Ive used numerous small diaphragms with these, i believe one model is an AT835?? But its more of a lavelier mic that i used when i first got started. They were a bit noisy but they did the job quite well when i was starting out.

Ill probably have a Rode NT3 in the studio within the next couple of weeks. A friend of mine who owns one will be working in the studio soon and i was planning on trying one of these out for a couple of things. I wanted to try it on acoustic guitar as well as high hat and see how they are and if i should buy some myself (although i would probably get a matched NT5 set). Ill let everyone know what i find on these mics.

Hope this information was valuable for you. And i hope what i say doesnt start any arguments :). I still think one of your biggest problems is your room. Give it a try and tell me what you discover.

danny
 
Yeah, I got a 4033 and a 4040. Pretty sweet. Talk to any pro audiophile (no not a pedophile ausrock), and they'll fall down laughing at the mention of the ECM8000's.

Which leds us to believe that little 'ole ausrock will just have to keep dreaming that he'll ever have more than $35 to buy a mic. No wonder he defends them so much. Doesn't he also play a Squire? (LOL!)

You can't take anyone seriously that has Kangaroo Jack as their national symbol.

Someday I'll post the lyrics to a song that had EMI courting the songwriter heavily. It's called "The Australian Song."

bbz
 
QUOTE..............."Talk to any pro audiophile "

Nah, I'll leave this one for someone else:D

bbZ,

Just out of curiousity, what was your signal chain when you used the ECM's and how high did you have to have your gain levels?

BTW, where oh where in this thread have I defended the ECM's?

:eek:
 
I'll have to go with Oktava MC012, mentioned by Mark7. I've used them quite a bit in several acoustic settings & I've never been disappointed
 
ausrock - spoken like a true kangaroo boy
must be hard getting left out of the musical world
since you're stuck in the middle of nowhere
Kangaroo-land hasn't produced anything original
bbz
 
Bbz, now you're starting to sound like a troll. But in case you honestly don't understand, and assuming you have some reading skills, here are some threads you should have read BEFORE you purchased anything based on recommendations here. They're called "qualifiers".

https://homerecording.com/bbs//showthread.php?s=&threadid=27030

Here's the important quote from that thread:

Brüel & Kjær has been making measurement mics for about 50 years now. They're omnidirectional, and flat (within a fer tenths of a dB) from about 5Hz to 40kHz, although the have some models that are flat down to 1Hz and other models that are flat to about 140kHz. Every mic manufacturers uses B&K to see what their own mics are doing; the test is very simple:

You point the B&K mic and the mic you wanna test at any sound source and record the two response curves. You subtract the B&K results from the mic under test, and any differences from the B&K response - well, that's the your mic's response curve.

They made two basic types of omni test mics - one for pressure field (on axis) and one for diffuse field (90 degrees off axis). Their DPA web site (DPA is their name for their studio type mics) contains a whole bunch of good, objective info about the differences between small and large diaphragm mics, but it's pretty techie oriented. (Bottom line: small diaphragm mics have higher noise, flatter response, greater dynamic range, large diaphragm mics have higher output, lower noise, and less dynamic range and frequency response.)

True omni-directional mics have a sealed back chamber and only allow sound to hit the front of the diaphragm. The other polar patterns are created by using "pressure gradient" techniques to delay and let some of the sound hit the back of the diaphragm.

Condenser mics can be made in small (1/2" or smaller), medium (5/8" to 7/8"), and large diaphragm (!" and larger) sizes. Small diaphragm condensor mics have these advantages:

1. Flatter, extended frequency response
2. Higher spl levels
3. Better off-axis response
4. Greater accuracy

They have these disadvantages:

1. Lower output levels
2. Higher self-noise

Large diaphragm condensor mics have these advantages:

1. Higher output levels
2. Lower self-noise

They have these disadvantages:

1. Poorer limited frequency response
2. Lower spl levels
3. Uneven off-axis response
4. Less accuracy

However, some of the resonances in a large diaphragm condensor mic can be very pleasing and musical, and can often compliment the voice and some instruments very well.

"Pure" pressure mics do not have proximity effect (bass buildup as you get closer) - all pressure gradient mics DO have proximity effect (dual diaphragm condensor omnis have the least, then cardioids, then hypercardioids, then figure 8, which has the most proximity effect).

You would use small diaphragm condensor omnis where you want the greatest accuracy or in high level situations where self-noise isn't a factor. Large diaphragm condensor mics are better used for quiet sources, or where you want a particular type of complimentary coloration.

Here are a few more important threads that you've apparently missed:

https://homerecording.com/bbs//showthread.php?s=&threadid=53878

https://homerecording.com/bbs//showthread.php?s=&threadid=56685

https://homerecording.com/bbs//showthread.php?s=&threadid=36354

Bbz, are you starting to see a pattern forming yet? It's all part of understanding which mic is best for a particular situation. Just because one microphone that was recommended didn't work well (the way you set it up) doesn't mean the mic is a bad choice for everybody.

I still believe that you weren't using them correctly, but since I wasn't there, I can't say for sure. You've offered nothing in any of your posts about how you set them up, just your opinion that they suck, and that anybody who recommends them also sucks. It could be "operator error".
 
Professor Harvey,

Thanks for the long-winded lecture. It reminded me why No-Doz was invented. Maybe you can spew out some more boring mouthings so as to put the entire group asleep.

Seriously, the ECM8000's are very hissy. If you can't fathom that, maybe YOU should put down the manuals and get your ass back into the control room.

I guess the 8000's would be good for clunking rabbits on the head or for doorstops.

Have you even done a live A/B test on your own yet?

I thought so.

bbz
 
bbZ said:
Professor Harvey,

Thanks for the long-winded lecture. It reminded me why No-Doz was invented. Maybe you can spew out some more boring mouthings so as to put the entire group asleep.

I appreciate Harvey's patience with you. I would be happy to listen to what you would call "boring."

You know, I am curious of your credentials. If you want to spout off at others here, why should we listen to what you say? Harvey's got experience in the professional music industry, implementation and design, and is about the most knowledgeable person regarding mics and their uses of anyone. Anywhere. What do you bring to the table? My ECM's sound great, and I bought them strictly on Harvey's recommendation. Point for Harv. You, however, are making every attempt to insult the entire continent of Australia, and all you have to back up your findings is the Socratic notion that if no one can prove you wrong, you're right. "well, have you A-B tested them?" BFD man! Have you? Great! Are yours crappy? Great. Point taken. Harvey was the first to say that there are definately quality control issues... oh wait, maybe you still haven't read that post...

Pete
 
Originally posted by bbZ
Professor Harvey,

Thanks for the long-winded lecture. It reminded me why No-Doz was invented. Maybe you can spew out some more boring mouthings so as to put the entire group asleep.

<lotsa stuff snipped>

jslator is right.

Don't feed the trolls!
 
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I'll just nip in here. You may recall I mentioned earlier in this thread that I'd recently got a Beyer M201 and that I was going to try it on my acoustic (at least I think that's what I said). Well, anyhoo, I did. And, you know, it's alright. I mean, it's no Neumann, or Schoeps, or whatever, but it does produce a perfectly decent sound and it's got some "Reach" (ie: you don't have to have it just a few inches from the guitar to get a decent volume going into the pre amp).

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
 
Without reading all the answers to your post....I'm sorry everyone.

I have to say, the ADK A51 and Octava Mc 012 are my choices for a nice stereo setup of an acoustic guitar.

For a mono recording I probably would choose the ADK for its colored large dia sound.

The Mc 012 is a far "better" mic actually....Did someone say Neve - API? It's a choice of colors.

Hans,
www.hagen.nu
 
Yeah, when someone disagrees, and it pisses ya off, the "troll" label surfaces. Can't you think of something else to use? Maybe something along the lines of, "yes, the ECM8000's are cheap and very hissy. Only use in complete desperation."

Credentials? Why? Did you lose this banter already? One of the great things about discussion forums is that you may be surprised to know who your dealing with.

Or for you ebonics majors, "I be ain't got no mic done be hissy."

bbz
 
bbZ said:
One of the great things about discussion forums is that you may be surprised to know who your dealing with.

Not anymore. I'm "dealing" with a kid less than 1/2 my age, who's bitching about some shipping charges he had to pay on a pair of $35 mics that he didn't know how to use, but he still thinks he knows everything.

So you got great sound with your AT 4033? Not surprising, since I've said many times that small diaphragm mics work very well for acoustic guitar. But you probably figured that out all by yourself, right?

Naw, you're a troll, plain and simple.

Yawn.....

Boring.
 
I always think Harvey's messages are very informative and helpful. Thank you Harvey for taking the time to help all of us here is need of your help. Please do not let a few bad eggs ruin it for the rest of us. Thanks again.
 
bbZ said:
One of the great things about discussion forums is that you may be surprised to know who your dealing with.

This is who Harvey is...

Harvey Gerst has 40+ years of experience as a songwriter (with a gold record), studio musician, recording engineer, producer, musical instrument designer, and manufacturer. He's worked with: the Association, Buffalo Springfield, the Byrds, Bob Dylan, Sweetwater, Albert King, Jefferson Airplane, Peter, Paul, and Mary, Kenny Rogers, Mike Bloomfield, the Doors, Jimi Hendrix, Frank Zappa, the Grateful Dead, Janis Joplin, and many other famous dead people. He's been behind the board at most of LA.'s top recording studios. Be sure to check out the Archives section for some great pictures of these bands and others that Harvey has worked with.

Harvey has worked for: JBL, Fender/Rhodes, Acoustic Control, Gibson, Akai, Charvel, Jackson, Cerwin-Vega, Morley, Ross, Peavey, Roland, Emmons, Yamaha, and AMP. He just finished helping VST speakers with their reissue of his original JBL musical instrument speakers.He also writes the popular "For Musicians Only" column in the Texas Harder Beat magazine, and he's had a full page article about the studio appear in Fort Worth Weeklymagazine, as well as a featured article in TapeOp.

And I'm nobody special nor do I know 1/1000 of what Harvey knows. But, if Harvey keeps helping, I will know a lot more than I know now. :)

Now bbZ, who are you?
 
You get to a certain age and we all have "credentials."

The Association? Yeah, you mean DeVorzon?

Buffalo Springfield? Coolest name ever. Yeah, recorded with Jimmy. Had a record out somewhere....

The Byrds? I thank Crosby for my son's tuba.

Dylan? Shared the same sound guy.

I've only recorded in lame studios like Sunset Sound, Capitol Records, a million LA high-profile indies, and yeah, I could name-drop musicians and producers. How about Guns 'n Roses? Richard Dashut? He taught me many things. How about George Martin? He spent SOME time with me in my songwriting phase.

Oh, and I hated those Tom Petty, Judas Priest, Toto, the Pretenders and a million other gigs. I did have to sell, at one time, my '62 strat, '64 V, '67 V, my L-5's and 3 Super 400's. I'm deciding whether to keep my S500 since the H2 is ordered.

You know as well as I do that "name-dropping" is NOT cool.
Dustin Hoffman told me that.....

I'm sure Harv and myself could have a great rap session. Your place or mine? You spring for the Corona's? <g>

bbz
 
too bad all of those wonderful life experiences never taught you any social skills or respect for other human beings.
 
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