Mic placement for tracking bass

[Bulls Hit]

I've been tracking bass the same way as guitar with a 57 hard against the cloth. A friend of mine suggested backing the mic off a couple of feet to let the wave 'develop'.

The problem I've got is a woolly, indistinct bass sound lacking in attack. I know technique is likely to be part of the problem, but how do you guys typically track bass? Up close and personal, or from across the room? Maybe I should just cut my losses & go DI?

 

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

I go with a large diaphragm dynamic 6" to 1' off the amp or a Large Diaphagm Condenser (u195) 2-3' back. I usually like the condenser sound the best, and I have 4 large diaphragm dynamics to choose from. I would never track bass or kick with a 57 unless I had to.

If it's lacking in attack maybe move it closer to the center of the speaker cone. A 57 might not get you a lot of deep bass but you could go for good attack and then eq more bass in during mix time.

If it's an awesome bass and decent player, then di should sound fine, or you could do both at the same time and leave yourself more mixdown options.

 

[Bulls Hit]

OK yeah I'll try the centre of the cone. Hadn't thought of that thanks

 

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

OK yeah I'll try the centre of the cone. Hadn't thought of that thanks

Are you miking the edge of the cone because you aren't getting enough bass in other positions with the 57? Do you have another mic you could use?

 

[AGCurry]

A friend of mine suggested backing the mic off a couple of feet to let the wave 'develop'.

This is bad science. Waves are "fully developed" at the source.

What you change by moving the mic closer or farther are a) the sound pressure level, b) the off-axis angle of the speaker perimeters, and c) how much of the room sound you are getting relative to the sound from the speaker itself.

If someone's getting "a woolly, indistinct bass sound lacking in attack," I generally advise that he's not playing hard enough, or in some cases, playing too hard. Using a pick may also get you a sound you like better. I'm a finger-style player but am not above using a pick on recordings.

 

[Bulls Hit]

Are you miking the edge of the cone because you aren't getting enough bass in other positions with the 57? Do you have another mic you could use?

No, I always mic guitar from the edge, and always in the same position at the speaker's sweet spot. It never occurred to me to try the middle for bass. I have small diameter condensors I use as overheads on drums - I don't think they'd handle a bass

 

[xstatic]

Realistically, you are probably putting more stress on a condensor micing drums than bass. They should be able to handle bass no problem unless maybe you have something like a wide open Ampeg SVT4pro on an Ampeg classic 8x10 cab. You really should try using a sd condensor at about 6" from the center of one of the bass speakers (assuming you are using 10's) and slightly off axis. Personally I see a lot of people using kick mics on bass cabs. I think that a 57 sounds much better than something like a beta52, and most sd condensors sound better yet. I also blend the bass DI line though as well. I like to think of my mic as what I am using to capture an aggressive midrange (exactly what 57's seem to do pretty well). I get my lows and highs primarily form the DI line.

 

[AGCurry]

I have small diameter condensors I use as overheads on drums - I don't think they'd handle a bass

Why not? As long as you don't exceed the SPL limit, it should be fine.

 

[gtrman_66]

I like using a Sennheiser MD421 for recording bass. Usually wind up with it somewhere around dead center and about 4" back off the speaker grille.

 

[giraffe]

i find proximity effect to be very annoying on bass (a low mid/hi bass boost not usually being what i'm looking for), and so try to back off a little.

 

[Ironklad Audio]

I have small diameter condensors I use as overheads on drums - I don't think they'd handle a bass

pffft. SDC's work great on bass cabs...in fact, they're arguably the best thing for getting the "attack" that you say you're missing

 

[Bulls Hit]

Hmm OK I'll give one of the overhead condensors a go. Thanks for the all the suggestions

 

[TexRoadkill]

Use the DI and the mic. I keep the DI clean and try to get the cab sound to be a bit more dirty. Then you can blend to taste.

 

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

pffft. SDC's work great on bass cabs...in fact, they're arguably the best thing for getting the "attack" that you say you're missing

why would they be best for getting attack?

 

[AGCurry]

why would they be best for getting attack?

Superior transient response.

 

[danny.guitar]

I've recorded my friend's bass with my MSH-1 SDC. Turned out good.

I had it about 6-8" from the center of the speaker. I was careful with the volume though so I wouldn't fuck the mic up.

 

[bigtoe]

i think yer on the right track with cutting yer losses and going DI. if the player sounds like ass out of the amp by his or her own accord...the DI is just easier to get what they want in the end.

i mean - i've had good luck up close when i need more isolation and up to 10 feet back in a decent room with a decent mic when isolation isn't an issue. either way it's always dependent on what is coming out of the amp...and that in bass land is always highly dependent on the player's technique...if his/her technique isn't there...what you can do to help limited.

Mike

 

[giraffe]

in bass land is always highly dependent on the player's technique...if his/her technique isn't there...what you can do to help limited.

Mike

+1kjahdkjfhalkjhdff

 

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

Superior transient response.

I thought it was superior response in high frequencies, which are usually associated with transients. Bass doesn't really have any highs worth mentioning.

 

[scrubs]

I thought it was superior response in high frequencies, which are usually associated with transients. Bass doesn't really have any highs worth mentioning.

No, it has to do with the speed with which the diaphragm is able to respond to sound. Smaller diaphragms respond more quickly than larger diaphragms and, in general, condensers respond more quickly than dynamics. It is an utter fallacy that small condensers have poor bass response. Omni measurement mics are usually SDCs and they have flat response well below most dynamics. Even large dynamics like the EV RE20 start rolling off pretty steeply below about 60-70Hz.