Mic-ing help needed

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kidkage

kidkage

Bored of Canada
Hi, I'm recording some stuff in the spare bedroom in my house. The room is full of stuff- my equipment, as well as furniture and stuff. It's also not very big. What I've been doing so far is recording straight through the built in condensers on my Tascam DP-008

here's a rough mix that gives you an idea of what the drums end up sounding like in the room with the tascam about 2 feet in front


I need to mic the kit for sure.
Since im recording into the dp008 i dont have many free tracks, also i can only record 2 tracks at a time... so my plan is to buy a mixer and a 7 piece mic kit (I also have a sm57 I was planning on using). Then put a mic on the kick, snare, 3 toms, hi-hats, and have 2 overheads and use the mixer as a submixer into the tascam. A number of things have made me question this decision:
(1.) Im sure that it will be wayyyy to complicated to mix the drums before I run into the recorder.
(2.) It costs alot. I'm 16 and I'm sure my parents wont be very happy with me spending more money than I already have on equipment. Honestly, I wont be very happy with spending that much more on euipment, especially if it is not necessary.
AND
(3.) Since these are home recordings Im honestly not sure all of that is necessary.

Im having a tough time deciding which micing method would work best for my situation: the 8 mics into submixer; micing the snare, kick, and having over heads; etc. I was hoping I could get some suggestions from real drummers :o

P.S- I know, I'm a n00b.

//Thanks a lot for reading.
 
Hey Kidkage....Ive got great results with just kick,snare and overheads. In fact back in the day drums had just one mic on them positioned about 3' out from the front of the kit and about 18" from the floor.
What I'm getting at is you should do some experimenting with a few well placed microphones of good quality (and the sweat spots have to be found) before plunging into a cheap 7 piece mic kit.




:cool:
 
moresound said:
Hey Kidkage....Ive got great results with just kick,snare and overheads. In fact back in the day drums had just one mic on them positioned about 3' out from the front of the kit and about 18" from the floor.
What I'm getting at is you should do some experimenting with a few well placed microphones of good quality (and the sweat spots have to be found) before plunging into a cheap 7 piece mic kit.

:cool:
Click to expand...

:D Cool, thanks. I think I will actually try the four mic method. I can mic the snare with the SM57 I have; I'll still need some overheads and kick mic, can you recommend some affordable ones to me?

//Again, Thanks
>||<
 
kidkage said:
Hi, I'm recording some stuff in the spare bedroom in my house. The room is full of stuff- my equipment, as well as furniture and stuff. It's also not very big. What I've been doing so far is recording straight through the built in condensers on my Tascam DP-008

here's a rough mix that gives you an idea of what the drums end up sounding like in the room with the tascam about 2 feet in front


I need to mic the kit for sure.
Since im recording into the dp008 i dont have many free tracks, also i can only record 2 tracks at a time... so my plan is to buy a mixer and a 7 piece mic kit (I also have a sm57 I was planning on using). Then put a mic on the kick, snare, 3 toms, hi-hats, and have 2 overheads and use the mixer as a submixer into the tascam. A number of things have made me question this decision:
(1.) Im sure that it will be wayyyy to complicated to mix the drums before I run into the recorder.
(2.) It costs alot. I'm 16 and I'm sure my parents wont be very happy with me spending more money than I already have on equipment. Honestly, I wont be very happy with spending that much more on euipment, especially if it is not necessary.
AND
(3.) Since these are home recordings Im honestly not sure all of that is necessary.

Im having a tough time deciding which micing method would work best for my situation: the 8 mics into submixer; micing the snare, kick, and having over heads; etc. I was hoping I could get some suggestions from real drummers :o

P.S- I know, I'm a n00b.

//Thanks a lot for reading.
Click to expand...

It depends on what kind of music you'll be recording. If you're doing really heavy stuff or anything with big loud guitars, minimalist room mics alone aint gonna cut it - especially in that small room. It's most likely gonna sound terrible. You'll want to close mic everything. I'd say use at least 4 mics - kick, snare, two overheads. Add tom mics as you can. There's a lot of anti-close mic drum snobbery out there. Don't listen to it. Close mics are awesome, and you always have the option of simply not using the tracks if you don't want. Take care to set up the overheads properly and find the kick and snare sweet spot for close miking and you'll probably get usable results.
 
Thanks for the help. I think ill set up two condensers in the recorderman method, as well as a snare and kick mic. Which I guess ends up being the GJ method :drunk:

Now I just need to find 3 good, affordable mics.

//Thanks
>||<
 
kidkage said:
Thanks for the help. I think ill set up two condensers in the recorderman method, as well as a snare and kick mic. Which I guess ends up being the GJ method :drunk:

Now I just need to find 3 good, affordable mics.

//Thanks
>||<
Click to expand...

Take a look at the MXL 603 pair of SDC pretty good for over heads and even better on your wallet.
As for a kick drum microphone look for a Shure beta 52a or a sennheiser e602
Maybe $200. tops.


And as always look for this stuff used on ebay for further savings.




:cool:
 
kidkage said:
Thanks for the help. I think ill set up two condensers in the recorderman method, as well as a snare and kick mic. Which I guess ends up being the GJ method :drunk:
Click to expand...

almost. ;)

The main difference between the RecMan and the GJ methods are the placement of the right OH (drummers perspective)

RecMan is more over your right shoulder where the GJ is over the floor tom.

I've used both and still do and just put extra tom mics to whichever I happen to be using.
Either method takes close micing well.

For cheap OH's, I've found the Studio Projects B1's work pretty well.

Luck on yer quest :drunk:
 
Also, what exactly is wrong with using two different mics as overheads as opposed to 2 of the same mic ? :confused:
 
kidkage said:
Also, what exactly is wrong with using two different mics as overheads as opposed to 2 of the same mic ? :confused:
Click to expand...

Well it has to do with your stereo image and other things but, the search button at the top of the screen will work wonders for all of your questions.




:cool:
 
kidkage said:
Also, what exactly is wrong with using two different mics as overheads as opposed to 2 of the same mic ? :confused:
Click to expand...

Like alot of things in recording, miking a drumkit is gloriously arrayed in differing opinions. As was pointed out earlier, it really all depends what you're going for. As a total amateur on the bottom rung of the ladder, I'd take note of all those opinions and I'd experiment with many different methods and configurations including different mics as overheads, even to the extent of trying one dynamic and one condenser. Just to see the outcome. It might be useable in some instances. It might not. But you'll never know, unless........
 
I am one to definately agree with closed micing. As the saying goes, try to mic every single drum if you can.

Here's a good cheap 7 piece drum mic kit. I use it and have been using it until now for recording and live settings and it works quite well for both. The only drawback is the kick drum mic might need a bit of eqing depending on your tastes. It's a little on the low end boomy side.

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/CAD-PRO7-7Piece-Drum-Microphone-Pack?sku=270749

It's a good kit for a budget and you can always fall back to the 4 mic method as I do when I record live (as in everyone together) to save on track room. They can all also be used to record guitar cabs and bass cabs and even acoustic guitar very well.

The tom mics are very suitable for recording guitar cabs/amps or bass cabs. Though you'll need something to clip them on as the drum clip is not detatchable. And the condensors pick up acoustic guitar very very well.

But I'm upgrading to the newer EV drum mic set they've released almost recently called the EV PL DK kit. Which is in the same series as the newer PL80s, 44s, 84s, etc.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if my method is simply a lucky coincidence of a combination of drums and microphones, but I use four mics, close mics on snare and kick, and two small diaphragm condensers for overheads (Behringer C2s to precise, they're amazingly bang-for-your-buck). I started with the Recorderman setup or Glyn Johns or whatever, somewhere in between. One day, during recording, the mic near my floortom fell towards the floortom and ended up in a close mic position and picked up the floortom like a closemic, but still picked up plenty of overhead sound. I tried it again, now with the other overhead mic positioned like close mic on the racktom, and sure enough, same results. It sounds like a perfect combination of close mics and overheads. You're going to need two dynamic mics for closemicing and two condensers for overheads anyway, so you might as well start with this set up.

EDIT: Here's a song I recorded today. Dynamic mic on the snare, dynamic mic in the kick, and a small diaphragm condenser mic on each tom. All recorded and mixed in GarageBand.

I recorded all the instruments here, and it's still in the demo stage, which for me means that I have no idea what I'm doing and I haven't practiced at all. Keep that in mind with regards to the way the instruments are played... :o
 
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