Metal guitar recorded-- need advice

[jmxdrummer]

I need to get some advice. I just finished a sample of my mic technique.

I used two sm57 on each speaker and a at2020 condenser about 3 feet away.
In Sonar, I have one sm57 panned 80% left (applied paramet. eq) and the other 80% right( applied tube plug in and paramet eq), I cloned one track and applied a little reverb 10% right. finally the condenser mic track I applied paramet eq (10% left pan).

On the output I applied a little compression.

please listen to the track and give me some pointers. I also am aware of the lack of gain on the track.

thanks

 

[metalhead28]

To be quite honest....that is rather dreadful

First of all, if you're putting two 57's on the speaker, don't pan them differently. I think that LDC at 3 feet is killing the sound as well.

Record a performance with those 2 57's and pan them hard right. Then record another performance and pan that hard left. If you don't like hard panning (some people don't) go for about 75% either way. I think hard panning works best for a metal mix.

If you need to eq everything like you're saying you're not dialing in the amp right. Try to get the sound right from the start. Also compression is generally not needed on distorted guitar.

 

[jmxdrummer]

thanks for the info Metalhead, I knew you would have great feedback. This track is more than dreadful, Its shit. I will keep on trying into I get the sound I want

 

[metalhead28]

This track is more than dreadful, Its shit. I will keep on trying into I get the sound I want

haha....you've gotta start somewhere!

Good luck, dude

 

[Reggie]

You may want to take a couple steps back and think about what you are doing. Are you using all those mics because you heard someone else did something similar? Perhaps you need to take your own route, and perhaps you will find your optimal # of mics. Start with one mic. Get that one picking up the sound you want. If you feel you are missing something, start with a 2nd mic and listen close to whether the sound is better with it or without it. Move it around until you have a sound you like along with the other mic (both panned the same at this point). If you STILL feel like you are missing something, grab your 3rd mic and move it around while listening to all 3 mics together, while listening to whether the sound is better with it or without it. 3 mics is a lot to get placed correctly on one source if you are new at this...

 

[IronFlippy]

Like metalhead said, make sure you like the sound before it even enters a mic. Then move the mic around the speaker and monitor the sound until you get something you like. It's a different position for every amp, but for reference:

When you angle the mic to anything other than perpendicular to the grill, then there's going to be less high end. The center of the speaker is going to be brighter than the edge.

You don't really need more than 2 or 3 mics. Double track your guitars and pan them opposite each other. You can then do a third take and keep it center, but this gets in the way of vocals.

Are you using a tube amp? Tubes need to be driven pretty hard to get a good sound. This means turn the volume up, get those speakers moving.

And now for a tastey reading treat:
http://badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

EDIT: metalhead knows more about this than I do, so take his advice over mine if you see any conflict.

 

[metalhead28]

I'm just gonna throw some more info out there for you. Although checking out the link from Iron Flippy is a damn good idea if you've got the time! Slipperman rules.

Anyway here are some things to try.

Plug in your guitar and turn on the amp.
Turn the guitar all the way down and turn the amp all the way up.
You should be hissing and humming pretty loud!
Stick an SM57 right in front of the speaker, straight on. Right up by the grill. Now crank your pre-amp gain until you've got a nice loud signal from the mic. This is just hissing mind you.
Now put on some headphones so that you can hear the mic's signal loud and clear. You should turn up the phones loud enough that you can't hear the amp anymore, you can only hear the hissing in the phones.
Now carefully grab that mic and move it around a little. When you get it right in the center you'll hear how much more high end it picks up. When you move it off axis you'll hear how much more dark the sound gets.
When you pull it away from the speaker you'll hear how the sound opens up a little. Try to imagine this hissing representing a roaring guitar sound. Put the mic at a spot where this roaring guitar sounds the best. I usually end up putting it just a little off center and an inch or so away from the grill. You may end up close to where you started, but at least you'll get a feel for what the mic is picking up in different positions.
Now dial in the sound you want from the amp and do some practice recordings with just one mic. Alot of big time albums are recorded with just a single 57 in front of the cab so don't just default to multiple mics if you don't need to. You're gonna want to do a couple performances and pan them just like we already mentioned, but the sound just might work!
Now if you want to take it one step further, go back to the headphone technique and plug in a second mic. Leave the first mic where you started. When you're placing the second mic, listen to how it changes the sound when it's added to the first mic's signal. There will be phasing going on, you'll hear the swooshing sounds as you move the mic. When you get the mic at just about the same distance from the speaker you'll hear that the phasing becomes very minimal and that the sound gets alot louder. Now try moving the mic around and concentrate on how moving it off axis adds low end to the sound of the first mic. Concentrate on making the sound very full and big.
Now record a couple more performances like this. It doesn't take alot of time to see what different mic positions do for your sound. If there is something wierd about the sound go back and move the mics around. If that doesn't get you where you want to be, keep tweaking the amp's settings until it starts to come around. Just keep after it. You'll get it.

 

[flamin-gitaur]

I also agree that the AT2020 not be used in this case, the 57's should be able to do the job fine.

 

[IronFlippy]

One thing that metalhead forgot (which should be obvious, but just so you know) is turn the amp's volume down from full when you've got the sweet spot. You want a loud volume, but max would hurt (both your equipment and your ears).

 

[jmxdrummer]

thanks for the info. First thing I did was to pin point what was causing me my grief. I determined that it was my guitar amp set up. That is why my track sounded like shit. I unplugged the multieffects rack unit and put in the chain a Digitech Metalmaster pedal to my Rocktron Gainiac preamp ( on the clean channel). What a fucking difference in sound.

I removed the at2020, and worked with one mic as suggested by Reggie. Then I worked in the second sm57. In sonar I didnt touch any compression or anything else.

Im so fucking excited to get a descent sounding guitar track. I will be posting the new guitar track for all you guys input.

thanks everyone

 

[metalhead28]

One thing that metalhead forgot (which should be obvious, but just so you know) is turn the amp's volume down from full when you've got the sweet spot. You want a loud volume, but max would hurt (both your equipment and your ears).

Yeah, nice catch. I sort of suggested that, but didn't really say it. I'd hate to see you blow something up!.....including your ears!

 

[simc6440]

above, sounds pretty complicated.

I am not a guitar player ,just bass, but i have an ESP for writting riffs. I use IK-Multimedia's AMplitube for dirty sounds , and Guitar Rig2 for the clean sounds.
combining the two plugins in Cubase can get you amazing guitar sounds.
you can pick your pre/power amps cabs mics etc.
ex:1 pick one distorted setup from amplitube and 1 clean one from GR2, combined get me a solid crispy razor sharp metal sound....something similar to Dave Mustaine's rythm setups.

my 2 cents
cheers
sim

 

[metalhead28]

I am not a guitar player ,just bass, but i have an ESP for writting riffs. I use IK-Multimedia's AMplitube for dirty sounds , and Guitar Rig2 for the clean sounds.
combining the two plugins in Cubase can get you amazing guitar sounds.
you can pick your pre/power amps cabs mics etc.
ex:1 pick one distorted setup from amplitube and 1 clean one from GR2, combined get me a solid crispy razor sharp metal sound....something similar to Dave Mustaine's rythm setups.

Geez, do we really have to get into the modeler vs. amp discussion again?

There are those who go for ease of set-up and those of us who don't care how complicated it is. To me the set-up is part of the fun. I actually anjoy it.
And I don't find the above process to be complicated at all. Maybe 10 minutes of my time. I think a good sound is worth it.
I don't go through something like that just to write some music or dick around on my guitar. I do in fact use a modeler for that. Plug in and go kicks ass! But for a guitar sound that is gonna be on a recording that I really care about, that's a different story!