Metal (Death Metal) Guitars...Help!!!

[Bloodsoaked]

I wouldn't cut and paste. It should be easy enough to record 2 or more tracks. Then they should have just enough differences to fatten the sound up. With lots of tracks layered, you might have to cut some mid frequencies, as they could build up a little and steal some high end from the overall sound. It's all dependant. Lot's of experimentation.

For your second track do you use the same mic placement and amp settings or keep everything the same?

Here is 2 guitars, panned fairly hard. You can hear it thicken up whenever there is 2, and how it gets thin with just one. Shitpile... With only 2 guitars, panned pretty hard, I didn't have to eq them.

WOW!!! I love the 3rd guitar sound (distorted). It is great!!! That is two guitar tracks, one panned left and one right. What a difference the second track makes. Even the one track of the distorted guitar sound 100X better than what I am getting. I am impressed...

 

[Bloodsoaked]

I wouldn't cut and paste. It should be easy enough to record 2 or more tracks. Then they should have just enough differences to fatten the sound up.

WOUld this be the same for vocals (death metal vocals, not sure if it matters)? Better to record two or three tracks than copy and paste the first vocal track?

 

[Dogman]

I would try and use teh same settings, if you only do 2 tracks. If you do more, you might try some different settings, or mic placements. I just find that for myself, I can't play tight enough to use 4 tracks....it just gets muddy. I usually do 2, and them just pan them. As far as vocals, I generally just use one vocal track, but my style of music can use that well. I have experimented with double takes, and also cutting and pasting, with delay and eq. It works for certain things. But generally, just some eq to cut out any boominess, and some chorus or delay plus reverb seems to work for me.

 

[Bloodsoaked]

I will give it a try tomorrow and I will post some clips tomorrow. Thank you.

 

[Fade]

Why's that?

6

Because everytime I have tried using a distant mic to record anything that is the result. I usually only ever setup a distant mic for drums, so guitar might get different results, but I can't think of any reason why it would be different. I suppose the room itself will make a big difference in the exact sound you get, but unless you have a super dead room you are going to get tons of reflected sound off every surface in the room and it is going to make a muddy, distant, echoy sound. I am going to record later today so maybe I'll do some tests. If the result is good I'll gladly eat my words, but I'm pretty skeptical.

 

[amra]

Try to get your hands on a small diaphram condenser (JM27,MXL603 for example) close mic with it right next to your dynamic and try blending the two, or just use the small dia. condenser close miced by itself.

As an option, using your current mic:turn your the bass on your amp down to 1 or 1, mids around 2 or 3, and treble around 5 or 6, try close micing right on the cone, or try 3-5 inches away right on the cone and then shelf EQ everthing below 65Hz out of the mix entirely. You got to get rid of the boominess if you are going after the sound you posted it those clips. The guitar is all mids and highs...

 

[sixways]

Because everytime I have tried using a distant mic to record anything that is the result. I usually only ever setup a distant mic for drums, so guitar might get different results, but I can't think of any reason why it would be different. I suppose the room itself will make a big difference in the exact sound you get, but unless you have a super dead room you are going to get tons of reflected sound off every surface in the room and it is going to make a muddy, distant, echoy sound. I am going to record later today so maybe I'll do some tests. If the result is good I'll gladly eat my words, but I'm pretty skeptical.

What I am talking about is not using just one distanced mic, but using it along with a close mic and blending the two. If its done correctly (correctly placed, correctly blended) it will help capture a better sound. Again, the harmoics of a amplified guitar change the further they get away from the amp. Historically, close miking an amp right up on the grill cloth and pointed toward the cone is the first step in getting a good guitar sound...but it really can be more complex. Just like you have to find the sweet spot to mic a snare, you have to find it with your amp too.

This is, of course, just my opinion. I haven't recorded any major label acts or anything but if something is worth doing, its worth working on until you get it sounding the best you possibly can.

6

 

[Fade]

What I am talking about is not using just one distanced mic, but using it along with a close mic and blending the two. If its done correctly (correctly placed, correctly blended) it will help capture a better sound. Again, the harmoics of a amplified guitar change the further they get away from the amp. Historically, close miking an amp right up on the grill cloth and pointed toward the cone is the first step in getting a good guitar sound...but it really can be more complex. Just like you have to find the sweet spot to mic a snare, you have to find it with your amp too.

This is, of course, just my opinion. I haven't recorded any major label acts or anything but if something is worth doing, its worth working on until you get it sounding the best you possibly can.

6

Like I said, it might be worth a try because you never know what will work, but given the sound he wants, I just don't think it will be the solution. Death metal guitars have to be tight to pull off the desired effect. I could see using a room mic to get a more atmospheric blsck metal sound, but that isn't the type of thing in the sample he posted. Unfortunately, I never got a chance to play around with trying it today. Maybe Bloodsoaked can give it a try and let us know how it turns out.

 

[sixways]

Yeah...its cool. If I sound like I'm arguing, I'm not.

6

 

[Fade]

Yeah...its cool. If I sound like I'm arguing, I'm not.

6

Hehe, Yeah, same here. I always come off as being more argumentitive than I mean too.

 

[rayc]

For a generic sound (Death Metal, Blues, NWOHM, Funk, RAWK etc ) get a generically labelled pedal & play a generic guitar.
OR
Create YOUR OWN SOUND.
Cheers
rayC

 

[metalhead28]

A couple of things....
Don't listen to anybody telling you to cut and paste to double up tracks. It's crap...always will be.
A distant mic isn't worth a damn for death metal sounds. It just isn't. That's not the sound for death metal. Also unless something about your room sounds good, you wouldn't want to do it anyway.
A small diaphram condenser might add something to the sound, but I would certainly not recommend shoving one in front of a roaring amplifier!
Close up dynamics are where it's at for death metal. Look into what any of the big name metal producers and engineers are doing these days and most of them will still be sticking a 57 or two right up on the grille. If that doesn't get you somewhere close, then your amp isn't up to snuff. If you want to sound like Decapitated (one of the most badd-ass guitar sounds in all of death metal!) you're not gonna compete with the MG series Marshall. That combined with some very modest gear is going to leave you wanting more. I'm not saying you can't get a decent sound, but don't expect to sound like Decapitated.
With the micing technique you're using, (did you adopt that from my picture?) it's going to build up the low mids alot. You may need to cut around 400 Hz or so with a parametric EQ.
Also, don't just stick those mics where they look right. Turn on the amp, crank it all the way up so it's hissing crazy loud. Put on some head phones loud enough that you can't hear the amp hiss in the room, only through the phones. Now move the first mic around until the sound gets the brightest and the fullest. For the second mic, leave the first mic on and move the second one around little by little until you hear the sound get the loudest. You will hear a sound like a phaser when you move it in certain directions. You want to pay attention to that sound to ensure that you are not cancelling out important frequencies. Now dial in the sound that you want on the amp and record a little like this and try to understand what your mic placement has done to the sound. Now try listening for different qualities whan you place the mics that way. Record some more....etc, etc. Just keep trying stuff like that. This is how you'll learn to get what you want from mics.

 

[Bloodsoaked]

If you want to sound like Decapitated (one of the most badd-ass guitar sounds in all of death metal!) you're not gonna compete with the MG series Marshall. That combined with some very modest gear is going to leave you wanting more. I'm not saying you can't get a decent sound, but don't expect to sound like Decapitated. .

I an sure I am not going to get the exact same sound as Decapitated from my bedroom but that is just the sound I am going for. I am just looking/asking for advice on how my amp/EQ should be set up for a sound like Decapitated.

With the micing technique you're using, (did you adopt that from my picture?) it's going to build up the low mids alot. You may need to cut around 400 Hz or so with a parametric EQ.
Also, don't just stick those mics where they look right. Turn on the amp, crank it all the way up so it's hissing crazy loud. Put on some head phones loud enough that you can't hear the amp hiss in the room, only through the phones. Now move the first mic around until the sound gets the brightest and the fullest. For the second mic, leave the first mic on and move the second one around little by little until you hear the sound get the loudest. You will hear a sound like a phaser when you move it in certain directions. You want to pay attention to that sound to ensure that you are not cancelling out important frequencies. Now dial in the sound that you want on the amp and record a little like this and try to understand what your mic placement has done to the sound. Now try listening for different qualities whan you place the mics that way. Record some more....etc, etc. Just keep trying stuff like that. This is how you'll learn to get what you want from mics.

Yeah, I am using my two mics as you have in thepic you posted. I will try what you said about moving them around till I get the most noise/hiss from my amp and try recording there.

When you say I might may "need to cut around 400 Hz or so with a parametric EQ", what are you saying? LOL I have a parametric EQ but have no idea how to use it. It jsut have three squars and then 5 different collors. There is no Hz or anything to go by. Do you know of a good "free" one I might download that is good?

I am still a total newbie so when you say to cut something around 400 Hz, I have no idea what your talking about. Sorry!!!

 

[metalhead28]

When you say I might may "need to cut around 400 Hz or so with a parametric EQ", what are you saying? LOL I have a parametric EQ but have no idea how to use it. It jsut have three squars and then 5 different collors. There is no Hz or anything to go by. Do you know of a good "free" one I might download that is good?

I am still a total newbie so when you say to cut something around 400 Hz, I have no idea what your talking about. Sorry!!!

Okay. With a parametric EQ, you have a selectable frequency. It's not like a graphic EQ where you would have a bunch of different sliders, each representing a specific frequency. When you set a parametric EQ, you'll have at least three controls. One to select the frequency, one to select the "Q" (more on that in a second"), and one to select the boost or cut. The frequency control should be self explanatory. It selects the frequency you want to impact. Low bass being around 50 Hz, low midrange being around 300 - 800 Hz, midrange being from around 800 to 2500, etc, etc. There are alot of good EQ resources around for familiarizing yourself with how certain frequencies can be associated with the sounds you hear.
Here's some articles on that very thing:

http://www.digitalprosound.com/2002/03_mar/tutorials/mixing_excerpt1.htm
http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/eq/2.asp

Okay. Next control is the "Q". The Q setting determines how wide of an area will be subjected to your boost or cut that you do. A narrow Q could be thought of like a small notch that is only affecting a specific frequency. A wide Q is like a wide gentle boost that affects a lot of frequencies on either side of the one you selected. Thinking in terms of a graphic EQ, a narrow q would be like moving a single slider. A wide Q would be like moving several sliders at a time like the "California smile" you see all the time.

The boost or cut control should also be self-explanatory. You're either boosting frequencies or cutting them.
So in short when I said a 400 hz cut, You should insert a parametric EQ plug-in. Set the frequency to around 400 Hz. Set the Q to around 1, and then dial in a cut starting at maybe about -3 db. When you see what it sounds like you may want to change the Q setting or do more or less cut until it sounds good to you. There are no rules.

 

[Bloodsoaked]

Can anyone suggest any good "free" parametric EQ plug-ins?

Thank you for all the info.

 

[killthepixelnow]

Hope this will help

Hey metal brother, i got some possible solutions to your problem:

1. Put the Behringers mics (toys) in a box, the hide it and forget about it.
2. Get (or borrow) a second-hand Shure SM-57 for 40 bucks
3. Close mic your amp (3 inches) off axis of the cone. Use just one mic for now.
4. If you're using two mics check the phase.
5. Don't EQ too much, just tweak a little to correct some minor problems.
6. The tone comes from your fingers.
7. My setting for death metal is: Low:6 - MID: 3 - High:7 - Presence: 8 - Gain:8

Well... what else could I say? If you have a tube amp try to use the amp distortion instead of an external stompbox or digital processor. Put the volume at 5 so the tubes are hot. Using the tube gain make your guitar sound heavier, angrier and punchier. The chords are more "clear" and the solos have a better tone. If you want to use two mics borrow a Senheiser MD421 (it's expensive but it's a perfect match for the Shure) and put it next to the "57" If they're together you won't have phase problems.

I will also recommend reading the next books:
The recording guitarist (John Chapel)
http://www.amazon.com/Recording-Gui...=pd_bbs_2/104-4778729-4598350?ie=UTF8&s=books

Guerrilla home recording by Karl Coryat
http://www.amazon.com/Guerrilla-Hom...ef=sr_1_1/104-4778729-4598350?ie=UTF8&s=books

Very usefull reading! Good luck and post more samples.
PD: Phew, what a post!