Mesa Vs Tone

  • Thread starter Thread starter JayTheRipper
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JayTheRipper

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Hi everyone,

I have some problem getting the tone I want... I hope you'll be able to help me out...

First, here's my rig :

Ibanez S Prestige Custom (B : TB-12, N : SH-6)
Liberatore Handmade JM Custom (B : TB-12, N : SH-6)
DC Custom Handmade Jay Ménard Signature (B : HS-3, M : YJM, N : YJM)

1. Furman Power Conditioner
2. Sennheiser Evolution Wireless (Live Only)
3. Korg DTR-2000 Tuner
4. BOSS SD-1 Overdrive (Which I'm not using anymore)
5. Rocktron HUSH Super C Noise gate
5. Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier, 100W with EL34s

Loop :

1. Rocktron Xpression effects unit
2. BBE SOnic Maximizer (Which I'm not using)

Here's my problem :

When I'm soloing I don't get that "easy-playing" feeling. The notes doesn't seems to come off the speakers. When I'm listening to Petrucci, who plays Boogie, he seems to be able to do pull-off and Legatos easily. I know that the playing is important, but the sound helps a lot.

So I want that "POWER" feeling. Not a "MORE GAIN" thing but A "MORE OUTPUT" feeling.

I don't know if you understand what I try to say? Hope you can help me with that.

Is there any pedals I can add? Do I have to change my amp?

Thank you guys for helping me!
 
ok, heres my opinion, im not criticizing...

from my observation/usage, mesa amps are typically not amps with a lot of tone to them. neither are ibanez guitars. i dont know exactly what sound you are looking for.

i have had a marshall el34 50/50 amp, with a digitech 2120 preamp, a 'professional' setup, and to be honest, i completely hated it. i have a fender hot rod deluxe now and it blows it away, as far as tone goes. recently sold the marshall and digitech...

i'd stay away from the sonic max. i feel that its just a way for people to boost there sound when they don't know what else to do. it doesnt work so great.

i would go to GC and play some tube combo amps. i bet you find that sound you're looking for. i think you are a guy who hates the blues and blues sounds, right? i would definitly get a tube combo amp, and then add an overdrive to it for your soloing sound.

just an idea to kick around.
 
That looks like a whole bunch of information in order to say that you play a Dual Rec and you don't like the lead tone, right? ;)

First of all, are you getting the volume up loud enough to get the power section working? I don't think this is as big of a deal with a Mesa as it is with say, a Marshall, but it could have something to do with it.

When you say you can't do legato and stuff easily, what do you mean? There's not enough gain to pronounce the notes? You should be able to do that clearly with very minimal gain. I would say most of that problem comes from playing technique. The only thing I can think of is that you're not turning the amp up loud enough.

Have you tried dialing in different EQ on your amp? Have you tried using the overdrive pedal in front? Have you messed with pre-amp gain versus power amp volume? There are so many variables and different things you can do to achieve a tone you like. I can't believe that you have exhausted the possibilities.
I would say you should definitely be able to get a nice tone out of that amp, it's just going to take some fiddling. I have always found Mesas to be very finicky, but once you get them dialed in they sound great.
 
I disagree strongly with Tragik. Dual Rectumfryers may have bee co-opted by monosyllabic rap-met3lers, but they are excellent sounding amps in the right hands. I first played one right when they came out, and the sample I plugged into was a thing of beauty.

Are you playing at volume? Any tube amp will be hobbled at low output. I hesitate to mention it, but I fear the "easy-playing" sound will come with practice, not equipment. It did with me, anyway.
 
Jay,
Could it be your technique? That has a lot to do with tone. Your setup seems pretty sufficient to me. I'd lose everything but the guitar, wireless system, and amp if it were me. You should be able to get awesome tones from that rig provided you know how and have decent chops.
 
Try using some compression. That will bring out subtleties in very light touches without blowing your head off when you hit it hard.
 
TragikRemix said:
ok, heres my opinion, im not criticizing...

from my observation/usage, mesa amps are typically not amps with a lot of tone to them.
Click to expand...


Yeah, ok. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
How about the noise gate? Maybe it's set a little high and knocking your notes off early? :confused:
 
ermghoti said:
Are you playing at volume? Any tube amp will be hobbled at low output. I hesitate to mention it, but I fear the "easy-playing" sound will come with practice, not equipment. It did with me, anyway.
Click to expand...


All good, there, but also; try removing everything from your chain except the amp and the guitar. You will likely find that you are a lot closer to what you want that way. Effects boxes kill tone, all the more so when they are in front of the amp. In an ideal world, you don't want anything between you and the first tube in your amp, except a pedal (and a wireless is the WORST thing you can do to your tone.)


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
well, 1st off, petrucci doesn't use the dual rectifier...

i have an early model boogie, and it sounds absolutely NOTHING like a dual rectumfrier....

tone suck could be the culprit....
the easiest way to get to better tone, is to take all the crap out except for the guitar and cable.
then add it all back in one at a time, til you figure out where the tone suck is occurring.

dual rectifiers wanna be cranked.
if you're not cranking it into power tube saturation, that's the first problem.

mesa's are known for the ability to create killer tones.
if you want proof, do the research... many pros and classic albums have been done using mesa products.
 
I second the compression... I doubt it's your technique. I know what your saying about Some setups do seem to have that "Easy-Playing" thing your talking about.

Also... I'd try taking out the Hush Super C. and C what happens. From my limited experince w/ that unit... it seemed to kill the gain and made the amp harder to play. You still get the Heavy distortion and crunch but the top gain would be gone... which is where part of that easy playing is, I think.
I think some Compression might counteract what the Hush Super C does to the signal.

Another thing that happened in my Tone search...
I use to play a ADA-Mosvalve setup. I had a great tone dialed in. Then after a while it just didn't seem to be doing it for me. So I'd try different pedals to get that top gain I felt was missing. (tube screamer ect...) Well finally (after a year or so) someone told me to try replacing my Pre-Amp tubes in the ADA. & VOILA!! My Sound was back. So from then on I could tell when to change em... which was about every 6 months. I felt like such an idiot... but I had heard you don't need to change Pre Tubes very often... Only the ADA MP1 was a different animal in the way it handles the Preamp tubes. The other thing I found was that the ADA really had different character w/ differet type of Pre Amp tubes where as my Soldano isn't effected as much.

Good Luck,
B.
 
Hey guys!

Thanks for the info...

I know that's not my playing that isn't good enough...

I'm looking for a "Guitar Hero" sound.. If you know what I mean! I don't want a "pure" bluesy or jazzy sound...

For the Wireless I'm only using it live and that's a top of the line Sennheiser, so I just turn my OD to "On" and crank it a bit... it does the thing...

My BBE is turned off... I'm going to sell it or I'll use it for studio purpose...

Maybe I should go with Rackmount stuff... I think the first thing I should do is to go and try other amps...

Thanx for enlighten me!
 
In an ideal world, you don't want anything between you and the first tube in your amp, except a pedal (and a wireless is the WORST thing you can do to your tone.)


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi[/QUOTE]

I work in the telemetry field and know what kind of saturation there is in the airwaves, and thats exactly why I've never wanted anything to do with wireless crap. Most people I've played with in bands with wireless had a nasty, wimped out sound due to their system, and having your whole sound depending on a 9 volt battery is crazy-use a cable and get all your signal through!
 
Unhook the BBE. Just having it in the circuit will kill your tone. When you bypass it, the signal goes through a circuit that dulls the sound so that when you turn it on, everything sounds better.

Try turning up the mids.
 
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