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Zeppe
New member
What part of the mix makes it sound awful? Is the low end all confused and muddy? What specific frequency range, instrument or level is making it sound shitty? Do a little troubleshooting, tell us what sounds shitty and then maybe we can offer some real advice instead of blindly suggesting things.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
I'd like to temper the whole "room treatment" debate with what is hopefully a little common sense.
Everybody who's been around here for a while knows that I am all about making sure the room isn't getting in the engineer's way, an that that is at least as, and can be more, important than the rest of the monitoring chain. And yes, it is *EXTREMELY* important in mixing.
That said, though, I'd like to point out that "room treatment" doesn't necessarily have to mean going to acoustic extremes with high-tech diffusion panels and bass traps all over the place. Though that would of course be ideal, not all home recorders can afford that - even in a DIY fashion - or cannot get away with filling their bedroom or family room with all that stuff without having their wife or mother throw them out of the house.
But there are common sense steps that can be taken to remove much of the room from the problem list without having to resort to such extremes. These are not concrete rules 100% of the time, but good general "rules of thumb" to keep in mind. Here's a 10-step list I like to recommend:
1. Try to pick the largest room you can to do your mixing in without getting kicked out of the house in the process.
2. Try to pick a non-square room to do it in; i.e. a 14x10 room will probably be a better potential bet than a 12x12 room.
3. Keep your mixing location out of a corner or cove in the room, and try to set it up symmetrically around the center line of one of the walls.
4. If possible, set up along the shorter wall of the room, unless that means having to break rule #3 by sticking your monitors in the corners.
5. Put some space between your monitors and the back wall your are set up against. If possible, a good 12-18 inches minimum would be recommended.
6. Do not place your mixing position (i.e. where your head and ears are located when you are sitting down and mixing) right in the center of the room. A common standard often stated is to place that location on the centerline on the L/R axis, but front-to-back locate it at 38% of the way from the wall you're facing to the wall behind your head. Get as close to that as logistically possible without getting too close to the exact center.
7. Try to find a nice balance of empty/full in the room as far as furniture goes. You probably don't want to over-clutter your room in heavily padded couches and chairs as that can deaden the high-end a bit much, but a nice balanced amount of those along with a pillow or two along the walls and in the corners can help act as poor-men's bass traps.
8. If you have an empty reflective wall with closet doors, if the closet is full of clothes, opening the closet can help reduce the reflections in the high end and/or trap some of the bass buildup if the door is near a corner of the room. Similarly, opening a door to another room or a window to the outside can act as a "Hemholtz resonator", effectively sucking much of the bass out of the room, which can be especially helpful when mixing in smaller rooms.
9. Heavy drapes can help disperse HF reflections. Play with various open/closed positions to see how it may affect your HF response. Similarly, hinged wood or metal cabinet or full doors are highly reflective, open or close them partially to break up flat surfaces and diffuse/disburse HF reflections when needed.
10. Hold a mirror up against the walls and ceiling and find the spots where when one is sitting in their mix location, they could in the mirror see a reflection of one or both of their audio monitors. Hang or attach a HF diffusing material (bookshelf, heavy pleated drape, actual diffuser panel, etc.) at those locations to reduce direct reflections.
G.
Everybody who's been around here for a while knows that I am all about making sure the room isn't getting in the engineer's way, an that that is at least as, and can be more, important than the rest of the monitoring chain. And yes, it is *EXTREMELY* important in mixing.
That said, though, I'd like to point out that "room treatment" doesn't necessarily have to mean going to acoustic extremes with high-tech diffusion panels and bass traps all over the place. Though that would of course be ideal, not all home recorders can afford that - even in a DIY fashion - or cannot get away with filling their bedroom or family room with all that stuff without having their wife or mother throw them out of the house.
But there are common sense steps that can be taken to remove much of the room from the problem list without having to resort to such extremes. These are not concrete rules 100% of the time, but good general "rules of thumb" to keep in mind. Here's a 10-step list I like to recommend:
1. Try to pick the largest room you can to do your mixing in without getting kicked out of the house in the process.
2. Try to pick a non-square room to do it in; i.e. a 14x10 room will probably be a better potential bet than a 12x12 room.
3. Keep your mixing location out of a corner or cove in the room, and try to set it up symmetrically around the center line of one of the walls.
4. If possible, set up along the shorter wall of the room, unless that means having to break rule #3 by sticking your monitors in the corners.
5. Put some space between your monitors and the back wall your are set up against. If possible, a good 12-18 inches minimum would be recommended.
6. Do not place your mixing position (i.e. where your head and ears are located when you are sitting down and mixing) right in the center of the room. A common standard often stated is to place that location on the centerline on the L/R axis, but front-to-back locate it at 38% of the way from the wall you're facing to the wall behind your head. Get as close to that as logistically possible without getting too close to the exact center.
7. Try to find a nice balance of empty/full in the room as far as furniture goes. You probably don't want to over-clutter your room in heavily padded couches and chairs as that can deaden the high-end a bit much, but a nice balanced amount of those along with a pillow or two along the walls and in the corners can help act as poor-men's bass traps.
8. If you have an empty reflective wall with closet doors, if the closet is full of clothes, opening the closet can help reduce the reflections in the high end and/or trap some of the bass buildup if the door is near a corner of the room. Similarly, opening a door to another room or a window to the outside can act as a "Hemholtz resonator", effectively sucking much of the bass out of the room, which can be especially helpful when mixing in smaller rooms.
9. Heavy drapes can help disperse HF reflections. Play with various open/closed positions to see how it may affect your HF response. Similarly, hinged wood or metal cabinet or full doors are highly reflective, open or close them partially to break up flat surfaces and diffuse/disburse HF reflections when needed.
10. Hold a mirror up against the walls and ceiling and find the spots where when one is sitting in their mix location, they could in the mirror see a reflection of one or both of their audio monitors. Hang or attach a HF diffusing material (bookshelf, heavy pleated drape, actual diffuser panel, etc.) at those locations to reduce direct reflections.
G.
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dodgeaspen
New member
Room bad. Treatment good!
kcearl
I see deaf people
room treatment is for the gays...
Im going to mix outside from now on with near a field speakers
Im going to mix outside from now on with near a field speakers
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Chibi Nappa
New member
Near fields?! Do you enjoy being brainwashed by the corporate advertising machine? Don't drop that kind of money.
Plug your mixing board into the input jack on the cell phone you already own and monitor through that. I mean, geez, most of these songs are going to be used as ring tones anyway! Listen while standing in a closet with heavy winter coats hanging all around you. Lean some egg crate foam against the outside of the door.
Just remember, this is for mixing only! When you go to master you need to load up T-Racks and listen through something really good like Skull Candy head phones. The ones that wrap around the back of your head are really phat!
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NYMorningstar
Recording Modus Operandi
Right idea but it's more like it belongs in the newbie forum
kcearl
I see deaf people
near a field, im going to mix outside...near a field
ffs gimme something to work with
O
oceanflame
New member
The low frequencies are awful, the kick and bass guitar are kinda killing the song. Though I use hi-pass filter, I still don't understand, maybe they really suck! I don't have the specs, I don't what range of frequencies they have. I don't know, it's still a mystery to me.
And thanks Glen, I'll try what you said, well part of it, since I'm really stuck in a 20' x 5' room, which kinda suck at best. I'm considering making some changes though someday, maybe more sooner than later. I have a nice studio room 20' x 30' I think, or something like that, but there was a mini-room (like a closet, I don't know), so I used it for the mixing. Though I guess it was a bad idea. Sound isn't awful, but is surely not the best.
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Zeppe
New member
The low end is always tough to get right, especially in a less then ideal acoustic enviroment. The relationship between the kick and bass is very crucial to the overall sound of the recording. I still think the room is your main problem but you can always try....
-More compression on the bass to tighten it up a bit and leave room for the kick.
-Complementary EQing between the bass and kick. Cut conflicting frequencies.
Is the low end a problem on your monitors and shit boxes?
-More compression on the bass to tighten it up a bit and leave room for the kick.
-Complementary EQing between the bass and kick. Cut conflicting frequencies.
Is the low end a problem on your monitors and shit boxes?
O
oceanflame
New member
Only in the shit boxes. I manage to get a good low frequency sound on my monitors. Though I tried listening to different artists on my shit boxes, and the more I listen to recent recordings, let's say Muse, Jet, Foo Fighters, all the new bands, new recording, louder cds, the bass is too loud too. So I think the problem is really the shit boxes, I should get "good" shit boxes. The bass is always too loud.
Z
Zeppe
New member
Do that or try adjusting the bass on your playback system.
xxl
remember the future
lmao, yes i have. ramis work is decent and gregs work sucks.
a frustrated father musician wannabe is the vibe i get from every single one of his songs. the mixing is okay but the content itself is just laughable.. she wolf? lmao.
i won't debate the subject since i'm talking here with producers from a past generation so it'll be useless.
xxl
remember the future
That's got to be the stupidest thing I've read in a long time.
If anything, it's the other way around.
well record vocals in non treated room or without a booth
or a guitar using a mic against the amp .. see what sounds better. come on now are you guys really that stupid?
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
If anything, it's the other way around.xxl said:
Tip: Know the subject before you talk about it and know who you're talking about before you attack them.
G.
Seafroggys
Well-known member
Judging from XXL's posts, he's either a really good troll, or just a brainwashed perma-n00b
R
RAMI
Guest
well record vocals in non treated room or without a booth
or a guitar using a mic against the amp .. see what sounds better. come on now are you guys really that stupid?
Try recording drums in a stairwell (oh wait, it's been done!). Not too bad, is it? Now try mixing in that stairwell. Not quite as easy, is it??? We can keep going back and forth with stupid examples that don't mean anything if you'd like.
Congratulations, you're up for ignorant post of the decade. Hehe....You're truly fucking stupid.
(and, like TRUE said, please let us know where we can hear some of your music)
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Greg_L
Banned
Lol. This xxl loser is just pissed because I said his mixes were bad. A treated room and not mixing through computer speakers would probably fix that. Oh well.
legionserial
New member
People are looking at me funny at work because I can't stop laughing at this thread.
As soon as I read the words "room treatment" and "myth", a shitload of Dr. Pepper sprayed out of my mouth and I nearly fell out of my chair.
As soon as I read the words "room treatment" and "myth", a shitload of Dr. Pepper sprayed out of my mouth and I nearly fell out of my chair.