Maybe the dumbest questions ever...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Monkey Allen
  • Start date Start date
No bashing from me...lol...I'm not one to bash...yeah I use my headphones quite a bit....especially here in HK. The irony is that just as I am posting this thread I'm starting to cotton on to all this eq stuff...where certain instruments fall in the frequency range...why it is a good idea to sculpt out some lower frequencies of a bass...etc...when before if it was a bass part I was doing eveything I could to boost those same bass frequencies that I now recognise should be cut out...because...well it's a bass...give it some bass oomph.

Anyway, I'm starting to understand
 
Yeah tateros but I'm not very smart...I should have mentioned that at the start too...well I posted in the newbies section...so it should have been a dead giveaway.

Anyway...it's a bit more complicated than that...I recently have started to live in a HK hotel room...but before that I lived in Australia and had access to some M-Audio BX5 monitors. Not the best...but ok.

Anyway...what I was having trouble with...then (with the ok monitors) and now, is getting an acoustic tone that doesn't suck. And to add more detail...as it turns out, I have (almost simultaneously) begun to make some ground in the technical details regarding recording and eq'ing and what not.

I've only been diong home recording for a little while...and very sparodically at that.

I am smart enough to know that if you post in the newbies section, sometimes you will get some helpful advice which is dumbed down enough for dumb people like me to understand. I think it's good to talk through it.

You know, I'm pretty slow on the old uptake. So thanks for your patience etc etc

Do you have a sample of your acoustic that you can post. I gotta tell you, the magic of an acoustic guitar is the room, the guitar & the mics. I can get a killer sound without touching anything after the fact. This isn't a boast--because it took me a couple years to get there. But it's actually simple. And if someone had told me the right way, right away (even in a Hong Kong hotel room) I could've saved two years.

So I'll go back and read the rest of the thread for more detail on mics, mic placement, etc. And if it's not there, post some details. And a sample if you can.

In the meantime, I'll do the same--I'll post a sample and pic or two of the setup.
 
i'm just saying good call because of what you said about not letting others tell you what sounds good. and do what you can do. etc etc
 
Whitestrat...no problem...actually I will post a shot of my room as well later on.

But for a sample of the recorded sound I have gotten so far (these will all be from Australia and I can post a pic of that room too later) feel free to listen to any of the first 7 or 8 songs at this soundclick page (most of the other songs on the page are from my SBlive $9 mic days):

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=355705&content=music

I think the best acoustic guitar tones are in 'My Dog', 'Tell Me', 'Northland' and 'Come On'...but really they are still not the kind of tone I have in mind that I would like to get.

Also...perhaps I can post an acoustic sample with information on the mic, soundcard, gain setting, a picture of where in the room I recorded, a picture of my guitar...maybe some samples completely untouched by eq...and maybe some where I have a bit of a fiddle.

Thanks for your interest Whitestrat. Anything that can help me get closer to an acoustic tone that I like is a step in the right direction...etc
 
Whitestrat...no problem...actually I will post a shot of my room as well later on.

But for a sample of the recorded sound I have gotten so far (these will all be from Australia and I can post a pic of that room too later) feel free to listen to any of the first 7 or 8 songs at this soundclick page (most of the other songs on the page are from my SBlive $9 mic days):

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=355705&content=music

I think the best acoustic guitar tones are in 'My Dog', 'Tell Me', 'Northland' and 'Come On'...but really they are still not the kind of tone I have in mind that I would like to get.

Also...perhaps I can post an acoustic sample with information on the mic, soundcard, gain setting, a picture of where in the room I recorded, a picture of my guitar...maybe some samples completely untouched by eq...and maybe some where I have a bit of a fiddle.

Thanks for your interest Whitestrat. Anything that can help me get closer to an acoustic tone that I like is a step in the right direction...etc

I listened to your stuff and I don't think the acoustic tones are that bad. I posted a page with some samples and pics. Check 'em out and tell me what you think of the acoustic tones. There's no tweaking on any of the takes. I'm just trying to show that if the guitar sounds good, you can make a good recording of it. (Ya just gotta know how! :D)

And forgive me if I over-explain. I don't mean to talk down to you--I just groove on sharing what's in my head, and I tend towards too much rather than too little.

Here's the link:

http://www.spottedmuse.com/acoustic_mics/
 
Sure...I will listen when I get home to at least my decent headphones. I'd like to hear your views and suggestions about recording the acoustic guitar.

I'll record some sample strumming too and let you know exactly what I think is wrong with the sound. I'll try and make it detailed by including pictures of where I recorded, the pick type, strings etc.

edit: I just listened to your samples on some earbuds here at work...very nice playing and sounding very good. I don't know if I can play with such a smooth attack as that. Anyway, I will post later.
 
Ok I got around to recording some tests of my acoustic guitar. Here's the specs and warnings:

1. I record in a Hong Kong hotel room.
2. There are 3 demos...all played on Martin Dx1
3. Completely dry...no eq applied after recording. Demo 2 has bass rolled off as per mic setting
4. I played all 3 demos in open chords because that is what I want to learn how to record better.
5. I realise that due to my recording location all tests are probably null and void because step A is to have a good space...anyway...
6. I used a pretty old, chewed .60mm pick
7. Gain settings on my Firebox were aruond the 2/3 o'clock mark. I had the digital 12db boost on...because otherwise the Firebox doesn't have the oomph to power condenser mics.
8. Demo 1 and 2 on my soundclick page were recorded with Behringer C2's and the 3rd demo recording was done with the MXL SP1. My CAD m177 mic broke/ would not work when I plugged it in. It's still a mystery as to why.
9. I don't have any mic stands yet
10. No all of this is not a joke. But yes I do think it's funny.

Here's a coulpe of pics of the space:

unit1-1.jpg


Here's where I layed the tracks: lol

unit3.jpg


Here's a link to my soundclick page:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=355705&content=music

So...if anyone can offer any tips on how you think my mics and guitar and room and what not are working for me....go ahead. Any tips on eq'ing such a sound...go ahead. Any tips in general would be great.

Ok, no worries. thanks
 
I will make some observations just from looking at the pictures. I don't have headphones (and I'm at school) so I cant listen to the audio right now but I can later.

Try and get a microphone stand. I understand you may be trying not to buy anything else but I think even that could yield better sonic results. Maybe on japanese craigslist they could be had cheap? Or in a store? I dont know. I see your microphones are resting atop shoeboxes. You could try to cut a hole (circle) into the shoebox that your microphone can sit in. The ports are covered on the bottom side (laying on the shoebox). This won't be good for cardioid microphones (or for others but we're talking about ports but with cardioids, it subtracts the directionality). The microphone will be able to "hear" the tone of that shoebox I think. With the vibrations that the guitar is putting through the inside and reflecting on the outside. Another option is to hang the microphone from something and direct it to your guitar. Well I looked again at the picture and you have it hanging off of the shoebox, which is a better idea than just resting it atop it. You've seen shockmounts before.. thats why they make them, to get rid of the vibrations and sounds going through the mic stand .. to isolate the microphone from the floor too.

The room doesn't look that bad sounding but I guess that doesn't really make a good judgment. I see the pillows resting behind the microphones on the chair. You may have read this before but that is probably making the perceived sound worse. These pillows, while they are lessening reflection, they are detracting a lot of the higher frequencies in the sound. This is taking away from the perceived crisp, bright, and clear qualities that many people often would look for in an acoustic guitar recording. Also, it seems like you don't want room reflections.. but when you're miking the guitars up close, you really won't get too much room sound. I'm not saying the room won't be on the recording but with close miking, the closer you get, the less you'll get of the room. I think for experiments sake, you should try putting the microphones hanging off of the edge of the computer desk. You should be able to hear a whole different "room" once you put them on the desk.

From my experience, when I rest a microphone on something other than a mic stand, I do actually lose a feeling of openness. See if hanging it from the ceiling with a piece of tape in the center of the room dramatically changes the sound. A lot of people like the sound of early reflections because it gives a little space to the recording. Try backing up from the microphone, try getting closer to it. Try hanging one microphone over your shoulder by your ear and the other on the shoebox.

With your set up, you may even get some phase cancellation. You could put the microphones in XY configuration and see if that makes a difference. I dont know many things about room design or really sound for that matter but I strongly believe that with a bit of experimentation, you can reap nice improvements in your sound.

I'm anxious to hear the recordings. Hopefully I can't hear the cardboard and pillows too much!

Good luck Monkey Allen.
 
Since it was a long post I'll try to sum up my ideas and any more that come along.

My points.
  1. Get the microphones off of the cardboard shoebox.
  2. Take the pillows out of the equation.
  3. Get the guitar and microphones away from the wall.
  4. Mic stands can help a lot. Placement is limited with the chair + shoebox equation.
  5. Expand your ideas, try new things, don't get stuck in one process. Recording should not be mundane.
  6. Try to figure out what is wrong with the sound and apply practical ways to better that problem.
  7. Be careful for phase cancellation.
  8. Close miking makes room sound much less of a matter. Often it's a means to avoiding the sound of a bad room for home recordists.
  9. Digital gain should be avoided if possible. Record at -18 db's (in the computer).
  10. Keep trying.
  11. HomeRecBBS is my best friend.
  12. More Cowbell.
  13. Figured it would be lucky to sum it up in 13 points.
Eric.
 
Thanks for the comments Erockrazor...very thorough. Please don't expect much from the recordings. I just strummed G and C. At home (I'm from Australia) I have mic stands...so yep, I intend to get some for my cosy hotel room.

Actually when I posted those photos and the points I thought that maybe people would think I was joking! But really...I am just looking for tips on recording acoustic guitar. Maybe it would be better to listen to a couple of the songs on my soundclick page...the first 10 or 20 seconds anyway...because I did those back in Austraila and with a little more thought. Still your comments about my fancy baffles (pillows) I take on board. I understand what you mean.

At the end of the day I feel as if I know a lot more about room treatment, mic placement, eq and all that kind of stuff than I ever knew for any of the songs on my soundclick page. Now I'm in a position where I think I know what to do...but don't have the space to do it. I need to stay and work in Hong Kong for a couple more years before I go home and start to set up a home recording studio.

And by the way...I just bought a cowbell off ebay...it was touted as a real genuine used cowbell...this thing actually hung off a cow's neck for 14 years! Imagine the tone! The history! The smell!

Anyway...I'd appreciate it if you could have a listen when you get the chance.
 
I'll be giving those songs a listen when I get home tonight.

Sometimes I look at your post count and think to myself, there is no way that he doesn't know what I'm talking about already.

That cowbell better sound good with a history like that. :)
 
Yeah I know what you're talking about now...but a year ago I was relatively in the dark. I don't know...I never really gave it much thought...I just thought well I had a Firebox, a guitar a mic and a cable...that's about it...so I never read anything or really used many effects...and if I did use effects like eq it was just blindly. Things are starting to come together now I feel...in terms of home recording...the basics I suppose you could say.
 
Off topic question: What are you doing living in a hotel room in Hong Kong?
 
I can field that one! I'm here in Hong Kong living in a hotel with serviced suite accommodation...I'm working as a teacher. My employers lined up the hotel for me and I'm signed to stay in it for a year...I have a couple of months to go. When my lease is up I plan to move out and go and live in a cheaper place...being Hong Kong, it'll still be a tall building.

Here's the view from my window:
RoomView20681.jpg


My city at night:
tswhill1980816.jpg


My building (I'm on the 20th floor):
harbourplazeonwaytomacau1528.jpg


The lobby of my building:
31122007003.jpg


My building on the left...on the right are the buildings I will probably move to:

HongKongOctober23.jpg


Anyway...I was born and lived in Australia until Oct 2007. That's when I came to Hong Kong
 
hey i like the samples you got with the behringer c-2s I have them too. I like how you got them to sound. How close were you to the mics? where were they placed at your guitar? Way to make use of what you got. How's the firebox treating you ? Your c-2s sound pretty good if thats what they are going through.

p.s. nice pictures?
 
hey i like the samples you got with the behringer c-2s I have them too. I like how you got them to sound. How close were you to the mics? where were they placed at your guitar? Way to make use of what you got. How's the firebox treating you ? Your c-2s sound pretty good if thats what they are going through.

p.s. nice pictures?

I was probably about 8 inches or so away from the mics. They were placed on top of those shoe boxes in the pics earlier in the thread...I just sat in front of them and aimed the mics at approx the sound hole and the 12th.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the Firebox...my first semi semi decent piece of gear really...so I have a soft spot for it.

I'm not the cleanest player...I think half my problem is my actual attack to playing and my strumming skills and what not.
 
by the way i meant nice pictures!*

I'll keep working with my c-2s to get the best sound I can (i already think they are pretty good.

I'm notsure whether i should do an xy configuration or just use the stereo bar.
 
Thanks...yeah the pictures are ok!

As far as mic placement and arrangement...just experiment I suppose. I never used that stereo bar that came with the C2's.
 
why no stereo bar? It seems to work pretty well. Do you ever use your c-2s for anything else... ever use just 1 instead of a stereo recording? I've actually used them on vocals and i thought it was ok...
 
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