Masterlink

  • Thread starter Thread starter DTheriot2
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Hello Eric!

Why don't you tell your wife that you're depressed and the doctor told you that you needed to get a MasterLink for your own good. Convince her that it also has a room de-humidifier and a vac-port so she'll never have to vac your studio again :)

Seriously, I hope that you'll read the other posts that I tossed up today. I would attempt to convince you here, but I'm almost burned out from typing! Thanks for your post!

-glen

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EricF:
I've heard so many good thinkgs about the masterlink, so convince me (maybe this is one for majormid). I have a Roland VS-1680 now. Why do I need the Masterlink (besides the 24/96 thing)? I'm trying to justify this to my wife. . .

[This message has been edited by EricF (edited 06-07-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
Thanks again!

Well, I can't change a person's mind regarding 24 bit, but would it surprise you to know that I was recently part of a test group who tried to determine 16 bit vs 20 vs 24 bit recordings and we failed almost everytime. The fact is, we talk specs and we truly forget to listen to the music. I can assure you that the difference in 16 bit vs everything else won't prevent a song from becoming a hit song. In our everyday lives, we all adapt to everything. Cases in point...we listen to the radio on tiny speakers in our cars, we view TV mostly the same way, and our music is still put on 16 bit, 44.1k disks of plastic. Do you always wash your clothes in Tide? Do you always buy the same brand of salad dressing? What about THE REAL WORLD!!!

Of course, we all want the best quality, but let me assure you, that even your own friends might be listening to your high-quality songs thru $199 Sears specials, Radio Shack Mach One's, and maybe even on a cassette copy of your recording. My point here is that you, as an engineer, need to be more concerned about how your music is going to sound on the majority of Real World gear. With that thought, the MasterLink indeed makes this type of test most fesible. Carry the CD's, hand them out, get opinions.
You know, I use to work on a Fairlight II and I remember the day when I spent close to 14 hours working on positioning an exact point in time that I wanted a snare drum to "fire". The next day, a friend came by and when I showed him how I had perfectly positioned that snare and then played it, he stared at me and asked me "what the hell is so good about that snare vs the other one"... it was a revelation to me. Never again did I spend hours on things that weren't going to be Real World. We can talk about the latest bits, widgets, etc. until the cows come home but until everybody catches up, it is still just a one added to the highest number that you can think of :)

Regarding the ADAT/Edit card: Ouch! You're slamming it pretty hard. I almost hate saying this, but I have one and it works perfectly with my computer. The card's sole job is to move tracks from your ADAT to your computer, edit them and then move them back sample accurate. If your doesn't do this, then YOU have something wrong. This card works, but many factors can affect a card. Don't take my word for it, just scan other user groups and see how many people claim similar things as you about OTHER CARDS! The fact is, there are many facets of your own existing software and hardware than can complicate your problems. Send me e-mail personally with your complaints and I'll try to get you some help.

If Alesis tripled their people on the phones, it still wouldn't be enough. The truth is that Alesis is constantly trying to improve this area, but you wouldn't believe how many people call during a month. Many of them with questions like "how do I plug up my Midi"? or "how do I connect my compressor up"? The fact is that lots of people just don't attempt to read their manuals and thus tie up lines for people who really need help. The real truth is that many companies got rid of their 1-800 numbers just to bring down the number of calls. At least, you've got to admit, that Alesis is still paying for that 800 number for you!

Is Alesis in the works of a multitrack 24/96 solution like the Tascam unit that just hit the street?
A: Alesis is a DIGITAL Company aren't they :) They have been since the beginning, unlike Tascam who was a analog recorder company! Sorry, I just had to point that out...

regards,
-glen

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sonusman:
Hey majomid, thanks for the reply! Really.

The post above this one was in answer to the post before your's, just to let ya know... :)

Ahhhhh, it is so easy to misinterprete what is written eh? I only asked for the "non-BS" answer because it has been the answer I have been given too many times in the past by reps. Please excuse any inference that you may operate in this manner by me. Was not my intent.

On another note.....

Yes, Alesis has spearheaded many developements in the digital audio market. Release of their products in the past has certainly opened up a whole new world in "affordable" digital audio. Hey, I still have my Type I ADAT's in the studio as my main multitrack medium. I am mostly impressed with my old Q2. And I have found many good applications for my D-4 (mostly for kick drums) that have saved my bacon on many of mixes.

With that in mind though, I still cannot stand behind a 24 bit processing box at $1300. That would be a good solution for someone that doesn't already have a somewhat decent computer, but those of us who do (and it is a pretty good bet that almost all that are following this own a computer.. :) ) can get a better solution for the same money.

I value your comments on this though. I am sure that Masterlink will enjoy decent enough success (as most Alesis products do), as it is not by far the worst mastering solution out their. Looks to be about smack dab in the middle in the realm of things.

So, any chance Alesis is going to offer to take back those bunk ADAT PCI cards to use unfortunate enough to have bought one, and exchange it for something that works as advertised? And while on this ADAT PCI subject, when will it acutally support S/PDIF on the Toslink? And is a major Connect software upgrade planned? It would be a waste that I actually bought one of the first cards to come out (for $420!!!) and never had it working too well, if at all. Also, any plan for doubling staff at tech support so the phone waits won't be as long?

Here is the big question. Is Alesis in the works of a multitrack 24/96 solution like the Tascam unit that just hit the street?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Welcome aboard majormid.

Ed<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
I've heard that one of the "main guys" at Alesis (I don't remember who) said there will not be...

Maybe I'll have to go browse around and find-out who claimed who said what.

[This message has been edited by Recording Engineer (edited 06-10-2000).]
 
Only time will tell :)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Recording Engineer
I've heard that one of the "main guys" at Alesis (I don't remember who) said there will not be...

Maybe I'll have to go browse around and find-out who claimed who said what.

[This message has been edited by Recording Engineer (edited 06-10-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
I always like hearing about these listening tests. I find it rather strange that my girlfriend can here the difference between a 16 bit and 24 bit .wav file, but all these people in listening tests can't. She can only say that the 24 bit files "sound better", "more smooth" is the descriptive she uses.

Also, when I upgraded to my Lynx One card and started working with 24/48 files at mastering stage, and using plugin's that work at double precision, all of a sudden, people who were following my work were commenting how my stuff was starting to sound fuller, more detailed, the instruments had better space around them, and playback on other systems was more consistent then the stuff I was mixing to a 16 bit DAT or CDR. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm....

So, I guess there are some people out there that can't tell the difference, but, it seems that many do, and I do, so I go with what sounds better to my ears.

I agree to a certain degree about over working music in prodection. A CD I mixed a couple years ago was mixed on a DDA console with Uptown automation. I remember the other producer spending a lot of time working out small volume changes in the horn line parts, and the end result sounded worse then the line parts that we stereo grouped and sent to a compressor. Of course the compressor route took far less time, and provided as good, or better results. But, I believe it is the small details in the mixing stage that can carry a tune.

All of the Sky Blue Mind CD I mixed long ago was mixed before I did my mixes by another engineer in another studio. They only spent about 6 hours per tune mixing. The mixes I did took at least 10 hours, and up to 14 on a couple songs. The end results are pretty drastic. The difference between my mixes and the other engineers were startling. It sounded like they were actually different recordings all together. The songs also had far less impact with the way the other engineer did them. The mixes were just not showing off the strong qualities of the music. The band sounded sloppier, and less energetic on his mixes. So, I believe that attention to very small details makes a difference. I use stuff like track delay somethings to get a kick drum, or a snare, or a lagging bass line to sit better in the mix. Applying little things like this take a little time to evaluate their effectiveness. Also, these slight changes in the timing relative to the other tracks makes me usually have to play around with all my levels and eq's applied to make it all work. Track delay is not a "real world" thing. It is a luxery of the digital recording era, and has some great effects when applied properly to a mix.

So, I still believe that quality potential outweights ease of use in equipment purchases. When you consider the other advantages of owning a DAW solution for mastering for the same money over a stand alone box that doesn't provide the same quality potential, I still say the DAW solution is the better bang for the buck. Better interface, more options, higher quality. You may have to learn a little bit more to use it even in basic ways, but at least 6 months later when you get more proficient with it, and start exploring using more complex features, you aren't kicking yourself in the butt for not getting something a little better for the same money.

I believe that many people will find something like the Masterlink to become a limiting piece of gear after a short amount of time. As they get over the initial "oh wow!" of the box, they will start wishing it did those extra little things, and provided a higher quality sound. It ALWAYS happens.

Plus, you still don't get the benefit of having a CD burner on your computer for backing anything up. Plus, you don't have a editing solution for multitracking. Plus, you are stuck with yet another DAW that is mostly proprietary, and I doubt that you will find a variety of compressors, multi band compressors, eq's, stereo field expansion plug's, etc...that you will enjoy with something like Wavelab. You buy a Masterlink, you pretty much get what you got, with no ability to really upgrade it. I doubt too that at only 24 bit precision processing that many other companies who design software algorythyms are going to waste the effort to create proprieatary software for the Masterlink, so once again, you are more or less stuck with what you got. At least with a software solution, you can upgrade plug in's, the software itself, and even use different soundcards. And you get all that for about the same price (if you already own a computer) as the Masterlink.

Right out of the box, this unit appears to be slightly behind the times, and it will fall even farther behind before the end of the year. Looks like the wheel is being reinvented again.

Ed
 
To anyone who can help, I have a Masterlink (which I am very happy with) and was wondering a couple of things. First, if I record a song at 96K can I burn a 44.1k red book cd? or does it burn cds at the rate sampled. Or if I record at 44.1, 16 bit can I make a 24 bit copied cd? I am using the Masterlink as my final destination in terms of recording a final mix, mastering, then burning cd copies, what settings will give me the best results? I've been using 44.1k, 16 bit settings with good results, but I'd like to us the machine at its full potential. Is there a way to record song titles on the cd's? Last question, I'd like to make the loudest "hotest" cd's I can. Where on the VU meter do I need to keep the level? I'm aiming for -4db, occasionally hitting -2. Is this too much or not enough? Using the compressor, limiter are there any standard settings I could start with, do I use both or one or the other. The manual does'nt seem to cover these topics and any help would be appreciated! (sorry for the double post)
 
Hello and Whoa!!!

You said "Right out of the box, this unit appears to be slightly behind the times, and it will fall even farther behind before the end of the year. Looks like the wheel is being reinvented again."

C'mon, you're kidding me right :)??? Don't forget that you can make CD24's (a process that allows you to create 24 bit/96k files and write them on regular blank disks.) That means, that you can take your songs, put the disk into your computer and immediately access 24 bit 96K AIFF files! That definitely doesn't appear to be "behind the times". But it does mean that you can edit to your hearts content and when you're finished send it on back to the MasterLink. If you're still using DAT, then you need to look at this again. I might also mention that Roger Nichols as well as George Massenburg are supporting this format with their own comments on video tape (which should be at your music dealers soon).

For the record, once again, I am an Alesis rep :)and a personal MasterLink user.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sonusman:
I always like hearing about these listening tests. I find it rather strange that my girlfriend can here the difference between a 16 bit and 24 bit .wav file, but all these people in listening tests can't. She can only say that the 24 bit files "sound better", "more smooth" is the descriptive she uses.

Also, when I upgraded to my Lynx One card and started working with 24/48 files at mastering stage, and using plugin's that work at double precision, all of a sudden, people who were following my work were commenting how my stuff was starting to sound fuller, more detailed, the instruments had better space around them, and playback on other systems was more consistent then the stuff I was mixing to a 16 bit DAT or CDR. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm....

So, I guess there are some people out there that can't tell the difference, but, it seems that many do, and I do, so I go with what sounds better to my ears.

I agree to a certain degree about over working music in prodection. A CD I mixed a couple years ago was mixed on a DDA console with Uptown automation. I remember the other producer spending a lot of time working out small volume changes in the horn line parts, and the end result sounded worse then the line parts that we stereo grouped and sent to a compressor. Of course the compressor route took far less time, and provided as good, or better results. But, I believe it is the small details in the mixing stage that can carry a tune.

All of the Sky Blue Mind CD I mixed long ago was mixed before I did my mixes by another engineer in another studio. They only spent about 6 hours per tune mixing. The mixes I did took at least 10 hours, and up to 14 on a couple songs. The end results are pretty drastic. The difference between my mixes and the other engineers were startling. It sounded like they were actually different recordings all together. The songs also had far less impact with the way the other engineer did them. The mixes were just not showing off the strong qualities of the music. The band sounded sloppier, and less energetic on his mixes. So, I believe that attention to very small details makes a difference. I use stuff like track delay somethings to get a kick drum, or a snare, or a lagging bass line to sit better in the mix. Applying little things like this take a little time to evaluate their effectiveness. Also, these slight changes in the timing relative to the other tracks makes me usually have to play around with all my levels and eq's applied to make it all work. Track delay is not a "real world" thing. It is a luxery of the digital recording era, and has some great effects when applied properly to a mix.

So, I still believe that quality potential outweights ease of use in equipment purchases. When you consider the other advantages of owning a DAW solution for mastering for the same money over a stand alone box that doesn't provide the same quality potential, I still say the DAW solution is the better bang for the buck. Better interface, more options, higher quality. You may have to learn a little bit more to use it even in basic ways, but at least 6 months later when you get more proficient with it, and start exploring using more complex features, you aren't kicking yourself in the butt for not getting something a little better for the same money.

I believe that many people will find something like the Masterlink to become a limiting piece of gear after a short amount of time. As they get over the initial "oh wow!" of the box, they will start wishing it did those extra little things, and provided a higher quality sound. It ALWAYS happens.

Plus, you still don't get the benefit of having a CD burner on your computer for backing anything up. Plus, you don't have a editing solution for multitracking. Plus, you are stuck with yet another DAW that is mostly proprietary, and I doubt that you will find a variety of compressors, multi band compressors, eq's, stereo field expansion plug's, etc...that you will enjoy with something like Wavelab. You buy a Masterlink, you pretty much get what you got, with no ability to really upgrade it. I doubt too that at only 24 bit precision processing that many other companies who design software algorythyms are going to waste the effort to create proprieatary software for the Masterlink, so once again, you are more or less stuck with what you got. At least with a software solution, you can upgrade plug in's, the software itself, and even use different soundcards. And you get all that for about the same price (if you already own a computer) as the Masterlink.

Right out of the box, this unit appears to be slightly behind the times, and it will fall even farther behind before the end of the year. Looks like the wheel is being reinvented again.

Ed<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
Hi GroundZero!

I'm glad to hear that you're happy with the MasterLink. I'm going to try and answer some of your questions for you. I hope this helps...

1. You can record your songs at any of the sample/bit rates that you desire. When you proceed to burn a Red Book CD, the MasterLink will take all of your files and convert them to the 44.1, 16 bit standard that ALL CD's are at. You use to need a converter (which were usually very expensive), to do conversions. The MasterLink does it for you!

2. Recording Song Titles? I'm not quite sure what you're thinking about here. If you mean, you want a way to have the MasterLink to write the name of the song to CD, that is not available now/yet.

3. Levels... As long as you don't exceed the "0" mark, you're safe. You might want to try making a playlist and then normalizing the songs. I have found it to be very effective and it will make the songs as hot as they can be. I might add a warning however, anytime that you add EQ, you have the possibility of exceeding the "0" level. Fortunately, the MasterLink allows you to reduce the level on each individual song.

good luck!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GROUNDZERO:
To anyone who can help, I have a Masterlink (which I am very happy with) and was wondering a couple of things. First, if I record a song at 96K can I burn a 44.1k red book cd? or does it burn cds at the rate sampled. Or if I record at 44.1, 16 bit can I make a 24 bit copied cd? I am using the Masterlink as my final destination in terms of recording a final mix, mastering, then burning cd copies, what settings will give me the best results? I've been using 44.1k, 16 bit settings with good results, but I'd like to us the machine at its full potential. Is there a way to record song titles on the cd's? Last question, I'd like to make the loudest "hotest" cd's I can. Where on the VU meter do I need to keep the level? I'm aiming for -4db, occasionally hitting -2. Is this too much or not enough? Using the compressor, limiter are there any standard settings I could start with, do I use both or one or the other. The manual does'nt seem to cover these topics and any help would be appreciated! (sorry for the double post)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
Wait a minute...

"Don't forget that you can make CD24's (a process that allows you to create 24 bit/96k files and write them on regular blank disks.) That means, that you can take your songs, put the disk into your computer and immediately access 24 bit 96K AIFF files!"

That's not the part sonusman is saying and has described is behind the times. He and I both know that's not the part.

Besides, you were able to do 24/96 data files with for the same price with whole loads more of options, if you already have a computer, before the Masterlink came-out. Only benifit I see for the Masterlink is to haul around instead of a DAT. And I hope it could take the abuse.

Also...

"But it does mean that you can edit to your hearts content and when you're finished send it on back to the MasterLink."

Why would you do that?
 
I was pointing out that after you did all your editing, you could send on it over to MasterLink at 24/96 with your edits/mastering and then ship that baby on over to the Mastering Lab. How else are you going to send 24/96 in a medium that a mastering lab is going to readily accept?
I'm speaking CD's here...what are you going to send? DAT? Hard Drive?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Recording Engineer:
Wait a minute...

"Don't forget that you can make CD24's (a process that allows you to create 24 bit/96k files and write them on regular blank disks.) That means, that you can take your songs, put the disk into your computer and immediately access 24 bit 96K AIFF files!"

That's not the part sonusman is saying and has described is behind the times. He and I both know that's not the part.

Besides, you were able to do 24/96 data files with for the same price with whole loads more of options, if you already have a computer, before the Masterlink came-out. Only benifit I see for the Masterlink is to haul around instead of a DAT. And I hope it could take the abuse.

Also...

"But it does mean that you can edit to your hearts content and when you're finished send it on back to the MasterLink."

Why would you do that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



[This message has been edited by majormid (edited 06-16-2000).]
 
And my point was if you were going to go to your computer for all your editing, most likely, you'd have a burner for your computer. So why would you use the Masterlink instead?

By the way, I'm just trying to help-out others who may be reading this so that they know if the Masterlink is right for them or not and am not just trying to be an asshole.
 
Hey RE, that was the point I was making way back at the beginning.

Other advantages is that with a computer DAW, you can choose from a variety of converters to make your decision on what to buy. Plus, you can use a variety of plug in's, some that do at least 48bit processing. Plus, you get the visual interface for editing.

Wavelab and Cakewalk both work with 24/96, and have for a while now. Both as I recall can save AIFF files (if not, just use GoldWave to do a file format change).

The Masterlink is behind the times because for that kind of money, you are locked into more or less a proprietary product. Sure, it makes CDR's that you can use elsewhere, but you are now subject to Alesis processing. You can't use Waves or the better Steinberg plug in's with it. Nope, just what Alesis gives you. So, if you don't like it, oh well, you are stuck with it.

My point about the Masterlink being behind on the times, and being more so very soon is that most DAW's are heading the route of allowing a lot of different options to the user. If 32 bit (fixed) 192KHz sampling rate was to become the norm tomorrow, the Masterlink would be left in the dust. Wavelab could issue an new version (which is usually very cheap for registered users) and be up on the hottest thing available. If Manley started makeing a VST plug in of there top end opto compressor, you could use it with Wavelab. The Masterlink will STILL only have what it came with, plus the limitation of ONLY 24 bit (fixed) processing.

So, if you already have a computer (a pretty good bet anyone reading this does eh? :) )the best bang for the buck would be a computer DAW. You could be into a good computer DAW, complete with good software, at least a couple good plug in's, the CD burner (that will ALSO make 24/96 data files you can submit to a mastering house), and a nice soundcard for about the same as the Masterlink.

When you consider the variety of processing compatibility, the other uses for it, and the upgrading potential of a computer DAW, the Masterlink just doesn't make sense.

Now, sell that puppy for about $700, and I may even want one.... :) But for $1300 (and is it $1300? I have heard people quoting more like $1500, in which case, it is really not that great of a deal), no way!!!

I am sure that the Masterlink is a decent enough sounding product for demo use. But, in light of the advances made in computer DAW's and the versatility they bring, a person looking to optimize their purchases of home studio gear SHOULD have a hard time justifying this box. It just doesn't offer anything, except that it is transportable, that you can't BETTER of in a computer DAW.

Ed
 
Will the masterlink make copies of computer programs and games or just audio? Also the Masterlink is a great addition to any analog studio. Some people seem to think you could duplicate it for the same money with a computer DAW, but if you have one computer in your house are you going to haul it out to your studio? You'd spend more money, time, hassle doing the same thing the Masterlink does easily and quickly. Lets remember its just another tool of the trade and everything has its place.
 
Well GROUNDZERO, for about $600 more then the Masterlink (this would be the price of a computer to have in the studio) you can have an audio mastering DAW that is not only more versatile, but does better processing, and can be upgraded (usually for very cheap).

With how audio is moving into the higher bit depths and sampling rates, having a box that is hardware fixed, and proprietary in software does not make any sense. That is $1300-1500 that cannot be improved with any modest investment. Also, YOU try working off of a small little LCD display!!! :)

The other advantage of having a computer DAW is that you are now poised to incorporate it into your multitrack system to do editing of your induvidual tracks.

Masterlink suffers from not having the ability to use double and triple bit processing, and appearently is not open to third party processing plug in's. Once you start dealing with mastering, you will see how important these two things are.

To illustrate....

It was not that long ago that I only had a crappy little soundcard and was playing around with GoldWave for mastering. I THOUGHT that it was all doing a decent enough job. That was until I got a 24 bit soundcard... :( Oh boy. At that point, it became very appearent that GoldWave would not do as a mastering software package. Nor would T-Racks (which also SEEMED to work well with the crappy soundcard).

So anyway, off I went searching for software for mastering. Wavelab one out in a heartbeat for PC. Plug in's though became a harder thing to deal with. There was plenty of 24 bit plug in's available, but none of it seemed to really work that well (I could only tell this because I had a nice soundcard that was revealing much more of the audio then I ever heard before). I more or less settled on two plug in's that worked very well. BOTH do double precision processing, which is why they help make the music I work with sound much more like stuff mastered in $100 an hour mastering suites. Compared to the 24 bit plug in's, there is no comparison. No weird sounding artifacts. Very little collapsing stereo imaging. Very little loss of depth. Plus, these plugs, and Wavelab use very well done dithering algorythms. So, the quality of the CDR's are just outstanding.

Sure, if you are looking for a quick "get it to 24 bit" tool, and are not worried about optimizing that audio to it's fullest potential, the Masterlink will do the job.

But consider this. You can for the same money put together a 24/96 DAW, complete with basic software that is going to work as well as the Masterlink. You will probably have more hard drive space, a good visual interface, and upgrading capabilities. Spend the extra $600, now you have top of the line mastering plug in's. Your DAW will print out a PQ time code list (something you NEED to send to a CD manufacturing plant for CD duplication), and you can of course use the many other tools on a computer to keep track of client information, etc.....Plus, your DAW will do mp3 encoding..... :)

Trust me friend, the Masterlink will come down in price soon enough, just like the ADAT PCI card did. At the price they are asking, it is really not that great of a deal compared to what is currently available.

This is no offense to majormid, but, he IS a rep for Alesis. He is not paid to knock the product, and always needs to find a way to put a good spin on it's capabilities. That is how he puts food on the table. I understand this, and hope him all the best of luck pushing the Alesis product line.

Me? I am just a guy who likes to make audio sound it's best with what I have. I benefit nothing by recommending a certain product to anybody. I post in here to be helpfull, and to keep myself on my toes concerning audio. I am also pretty well informed about audio.

The difference is obvious isn't it?

Now, about the only issue that you point out GROUNDZERO that has some merit on the computer DAW vs. Masterlink deal is the ease. I don't think that once you have a DAW up and running properly that it is any less easier to actually use, in fact, it will provide a much more visual interface for you to deal with. Most things are just a couple of clicks away from a well laid out GUI interface of the information and/or function you are playing with. But, actually getting a DAW working properly MAY require a bit of work and research and effort. This is not because a computer is a lousy piece of equipment that is flawed in design. On the contrary, it is a testiment of it's versatility! The investment in time to configure a DAW for audio mastering is well worth the effort and pain. You WILL see the majority of people moving to computers for digital recording over the next few years. At some point, if you want what is potentially best, at the same price, you WILL deal with a DAW for dealing with music in some way. Why not get in early and prepare yourself now..... :)

Ed
 
A small point, maybe.

"Well, I can't change a person's mind regarding 24 bit, but would it surprise you to know that I was recently part of a test group who tried to determine 16 bit vs 20 vs 24 bit recordings and we failed almost everytime. The fact is, we talk specs and we truly forget to listen to the music."

No, it wouldn't surprise me if loads of people couldn't hear much or any difference between 16-bit recordings and 24-bit recordings. But my understanding is that bitlength becomes a really important issue when you start *processing* files digitally, running effects on the original file, and so on, and that the difference becomes much more audible.

Anyone?
 
Well Sonusman....now I'm a just a tiny bit upset...

Your comment, "This is no offense to majormid, but, he IS a rep for Alesis. He is not paid to knock the product, and always needs to find a way to put a good spin on it's capabilities. That is how he puts food on the table. I understand this, and hope him all the best of luck pushing the Alesis product line." is just a little bit too much.

The very first line that I ever posted in this forum stated that I was an Alesis rep, but "putting a spin" on the MasterLink's capabilities is hogwash. The capabilities/specs are listed and easily confirmable by trying one out, (something that is readily becoming clear, that you haven't bothered to do).

You know, I love software and computers, I probably have more software and plug-ins than you do :), and there is no disputing the power of a computer...but...Show me your $1900-2100 "wonder computer" that is easily going to do the things that the MasterLink does. By easily, I mean fast, consistant, and simple. I feel that there is a major flaw in your argument now...

I spent a number of years working/buying to put together a combination of pieces that did a good job on my computer. When you "preach" this idea, especially to the beginners, you might want to let them know about the pitfalls involved with computer-based systems. You know what they are. Darn right you do! The right sound card, a dependable/speedy hard drive, RAM, etc, etc, plus the software can often be a "hit or miss" situation. And sometimes, it just doesn't work even through it should!

I have Wavelab, I love it, I have Logic Audio Platinum, Cubase VST, Cakewalk 9.0, Sound Forge 4.5, Acid 2.0, Samplitude 24/96, Samplitude Master, SAW Pro, and enough plug-ins to make you puke, but that doesn't mean that sometimes I just might like to get my stuff on to CD quickly. Dragging tons of wav files onto a screen, and then hoping that the CD won't underburn or thermal recalibration won't rear its ugly head isn't exactly my idea of fun. By the way, just which "top of the line" plug-ins are you talking about? You know the quote, "Spend the extra $600, now you have top of the line mastering plug in's." Inquiring minds want to know :) I must have missed those plug-ins!

Seriously, after looking through a number of other forums, I have found that you really don't have a good opinion of anything unless it is totally computer based. That's not bad, computers are a wonderful thing, but I can't help looking at the name of this website and thinking that you might be pushing your opinion too hard. But, hey, that's your right and I totally support it! ....HOMErecording.com...That's HOMErecording.com :)

I came on to this forum by declaring that I was an Alesis rep because I wanted it to be very clear that I'm speaking for myself. Do you really think that my so-called "spin" in this forum is putting food on my plate? I bought one of these units for myself. Personally. Do you understand? If you and the other good folks on this forum think that I am "pushing" MasterLink then just say so and I will banish myself from here forever.

If you go back and read my messages, you will find that I'm telling you what I know about the machine. There are no "you can buy it at" or "trust me, you've got to get one of these" push statements! I just happened upon the forum and I wanted to give out information as I see it.

I could get into a "*issing contest about what we as engineers have done...PBS television music/Phonogram-Mercury/etc., but that's not the point. I stand by my comments 100% and frankly, when people like Roger Nichols and George Massenburg are supporting the MasterLink, then my credits aren't worth mentioning. By the way, these great engineers aren't being paid for their endorsments either!

Finally, I want you to know that I'm not about to give up my computer, my software and my plug-ins,they are powerful tools that yield fantastic results,but I'm not about to give up my Masterlink either! It is a great tool. As our "Esteemed Moderator " at the very least, you should check this machine out (and FYI the display screen is very large)!

regards,
 
Hi Guys

**Quote from majormid**

<I have found that you really don't have a good opinion of anything unless it is totally computer based>

CONSOLES -

Soundcraft Ghost - 24x24x8x2 in line design

- 56 input at mix (24 channel A, 24 channel B, 4 stereo FX returns)

- On Board CPU - featuring; MIDI MACHINE CONTROL supporting most devices using MIDI, Sony 9 pin, and P2 9 pin D type RS422 connections. TIMECODE READER/GENERATOR - LTC and MTC slave and master modes. MUTE GROUPS. MUTE SNAPSHOTS - manual recall, automatic recall to timecode, recall via MIDI program changes. DYNAMIC MUTE AUTOMATION - via external sequencer. MIDI CONTROL FADERS.

- 4 band eq , low/high shelf, 2 full parametric bands (low/high shelf assignable to mix B)

- 10 aux. sends, 6 mono, 2 stereo, 3 / 4 and 5 / 6 mono and 8 stereo assignable to mix B

- top of the line Soundcraft Pro Mic pre amps

- meter bridge

Mackie 1604 and 1202 available

Oz audio headphone mixer and amp

- 6 independent headphone amps with stereo and 4 aux level controls per amp



DECKS -

Alesis ADAT's (x3) with BRC controller and Remote Meter Bridge

Fostex D-5 DAT

Marantz CDR 630 CD Recorder

Tascam 103 cassette

the Fostex and Marantz units are digitally connected together as well as with the DAW's soundcard for digital transfers between any of the units. The Lynx One audio card can be used as a front end A/D converter for the Fostex and/or Marantz units.

DAW -

Custom built system with:

- 400 MHz Celeron Processor

- 128 MB PC 100 SDRAM

- 6.4 GB and 13.6 GB 7200 rpm HDD's with the Promise ATA-66 controller.

- 16 MB Diamond Monster Fusion Accelerated Graphics Card

- 40X CD ROM

- 4X CDRW

- Zip Drive

- 19" SVGA monitor

- Alesis ADAT PCI digital interface card (sample accurate digital interface with ADAT machines to the computer)

- Lynx One 24 bit 48kHz sampling rate 2 channel I/O PCI card (can transfer 24/96 through the AES/EBU connection). Both analog and digital I/O's can be used at once.

Software includes:

- Triple boot system with Windows 2000, Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 5 and FAT32 drivers) and Windows 95 (ver. C)

- Cakewalk Pro Audio v.9.0

- Wave Lab 3.0 with Wave (L1 Ultramaximizer, MaxxBass, C1-10 eq's, and many others) , and Steinberg Mastering Edition plugin's (Free Filter, Spectralizer, Multi-Band Compressor, Loudness Maximizer, Phase Scope, Externalizer), AIPL Warm Tone, Q-Metric, Megneto, VST Dynamics, and many Wave Lab native plugins. Also authors Red Book standard CD's.

- GoldWave 4.11

- T-Racks Analog Emulation Mastering software

- Audio Production Studio mp3 encoding software (simply the best .wav to mp3 encoder we have ever heard!)

- ADAT Connect v.1.02

- File Maker Pro Track Manager for ADAT

- Hot Burn CD authoring software with Track-At-Once and Disc-At-Once options (Red Book Audio CD capable)

- CD Stomper CD labeling software

- Dreamweaver 2.0

- PageMill 3.0

- MS Office Pro 97





MONITORS -

Event 20/20 near fields

Alesis Monitor One near fields

Hafler P - 3000 trans nova power amp

All wired with Monster Studio Pro 1000 cable

Parasound speaker switcher (two more monitors sets can be added which will utilize the Hafler amp for power)

SIGNAL PROCESSING -

ART Dual MP (x4)

TL Audio Classic Dual MP

TL Audio Quad Ivory Series MP

ART Dual Levelar

Behringer Composer (x2)

Behringer AutoCom

Behringer MultiGate (4 noise gates)

Alesis 3630

ADA MP1



EFFECTS PROCESSING -

Lexicon LXP - 1 and 5 with MRC controller

Alesis QuadraVerb 2

Alesis QuadraVerb (two available if needed)

Digitech Studio Quad

ADA Multi-effects

Alesis D-4



MICROPHONES -

Audio Technica 4033 (x2)

Electro Voice RE-27 nd

AKG CS-1000 S

Tascam PE-125

Shure SM 57 (x8)

Shure SM 58 (x3)

Electro Voice 257 nd (x3)

many others available if needed



AUDIO SNAKE -

Head box - custom built 40 XLR input, 3 split output using AMP mil-spec multi-pin connectors, and Pro Co transformers on splits 2 and 3. Separate global ground lifts on all 3 legs. Studio leg is not on transformers.

Trunk - 100 ft Horizon cable with AMP mil-spec multi-pin connectors.



PATCH BAYS -

All ¼ TRS Balanced with Magami wire.

Connections for in and out's on all tape decks, console, effect and dynamic processors, including side chains on dynamic processors, and console sub-groups paths are integrated.

The audio snake also connects to another patch bay for easy microphone to pre-amp routing during tracking. This connection is normalled to the console so that the source can also go to outboard pre-amps at the same time as the console.



AC STUFF -

Furman AR 1215 Line Voltage Regulator

ETA PD8L Power Conditioner

ACME 220 volt AC Transformer

100 ft 10 gauge AC wire

All AC in the studio is ground lifted by the transformer.


How many things do you see here that are Computer based majormid

Tony
 
Well I've already said where I can see the benifit of having a Masterlink: Out of the studio and on the road. But I sure hope it can take the abuse. Can it? I don't know.

However, I know there a lot of people here at homerecording.com who pretty much have a nice computer already for their studio multi-tracking.

There's really no reason they should buy a Masterlink when I'd assume they most likely already have just as good of a burner, converters, editing capabilities, DSPs and plug-ins as the Masterlink. Then maybe they don't. But then they can at least upgrade and surpass the quality and capabilities of the Masterlink for the same price.
 
Pretty much my point all along RE.

majormid, I really believe that you have not read my post's very thoroughly. If you had, you would see that my main point is that the Masterlink in it's intitial advertisement was pushing it as a high powered solution for mastering for home, and project studio at an affordable price. I dispute this.

Second. You should not take offense about my reference to you being a rep, and maybe not representing the product in how it fit's into the whole realm of things. Once again, it does not pay for you to compare the Masterlink to solutions that are comparable at the same price. If you did, you would really have to concede the points I make about it.

As far as me being a moderator. Me being a moderator had little to no bearing upon my opintions of the Alesis product line at all. The "Esteemed" part in that title was given by the owner of the web site, not me....But, Esteemed suggests confidence, integrity, honesty, and straight forward debate based upon knowledge and past experience. Are you basing your spin on the Masterlink on these traits?

About plug in's. I have Waves Native Power Pack versions 1 and 2, as well as the Steinberg Mastering Edition bundle. Each bundle, in it's PC version goes for around the $400-600 price range. Any one of these bundles would offer a comparable array of mastering tools to what the Masterlink offers, and many of them have much better algorythms I am sure as they are graduates of earlier releases of the same software. These products have a 'proven' history of sucessfull use. Please don't try to tell me that Alesis is coding a algorythm that competes with the L1 Ultra Maximizer, or Free Filter. It is just not so. I also have QMetric, AIPL Warm Tone, and Magneto.

Please majormid, do not try to bash me with frivilous "intentions" you "think" I have. My arguements against the Masterlink are well thought out, and very valid. Probably the best point I have going in my favor is that I have no financial gain to my stance on this product, and that much of what I have a gripe about is based upon the products proprietary nature. You do have a financial gain from this product line, and that is a point that cannot be ignored. Those are the facts, and you have to live with them. Ask yourself this, because it is all I am asking of anyone else following this thread to do. Would you buy the Masterlink based upon the facts that are listed in this thread? I think not. It seems that you have a pretty good grasp on what digital audio is all about, and, you own a studio, so I think that you, on an objective level can see my points. But, you are also an Alesis rep, which means you have a stake on how this product is percieved by the public. Don't blame me for disputing the facts about the value of this product compared to other solutions out there. That is really the rep in you talking, and not common sense. I know this because common sense favors my position on the Masterlink.

So, we can end this hear, or keep making the same points over and over again, we really have covered most, if not all of the points. We can even get into some mud slinging. Whatever you want friend, I am game. But, in the end, I will still be posting here in the future, making my points against the Masterlink at $1300-1500. You WILL grow tired of trying to convince me, or any logically thinking person who understands the real deal about digital equipment that it is worth the price compared to the solutions I have listed.

My take is that Alesis would have done a great service to this product by allowing it to incorporate third party DirectX and VST plug in's into it's DSP. They didn't, so, in my opinion, the Masterlink will fall short of offering a product that has a $1300-1500 value compared to a computer DAW. When you count in the other advantages of a computer DAW, my point is that much stronger.

A sonusman prediction. Masterlink will be under $1000 before the end of the year. Another prediction. Unless Alesis figures a way to open up the product to allow third party DirectX and VST plug in's to work in this product, it will not even be available in a few years.

But hey. I predicted Portland over L.A. in 6 games, and L.A. over Indiana in 5 games, so my predictions could be wrong. But, then again, I am far more into digital audio then pro basketball.

We will see just where the chips fall eh?

Peace.

Ed
 
I agree. Things are going pretty loopy-loop here. I even seem to keep on re-arranging Ed's words and making it a little shorter, non of which is purposeful, and yet, Ed's points still don't seem to be understood... Maybe a few years from now?
 
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