mastering signal path

[audioarts]

Hey All,

Trying to set up a decent mastering room at a new studio. I have been mastering audio with Wavelab (4.0) for the past 3-4 years and have recently purchased a few outboard pieces to compliment the digital realm and warm up my mixes. Looking for some advice for signal path of the gear I currently have:

PC with Hammerfall HDSP 9652 (light pipe/SPDIF) outputs
LUCID 96K D/A converter
Neve 1272 Mic Pre's (stereo pair)
Neve 33135A EQs
RNC1773 Compressor
Otari MTR-10 1/4" 2 track recorder
Alesis Masterlink

I will probably want to route the audio back into my pc to finish assembling CD tracks, apply noise reduction if needed, and any final level/color adjustments, dither, and finally creating the CD premaster.

Any advise on what else I would absolutely need to include in my set up to get up and going? Is the above signal path good? I plan on using Mogami Cable throughout.

 

[audioarts]

Monitors

I forgot to mention that I use a pair of Dynaudio BM6A's for my my monitoring. (If you haven't heard these yet, they are absolutely stunning!)

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

None of that gear is really up to snuff as far as professional mastering goes.... and as well, those monitors would be sorely lacking.... and I didn't hear you mention anything about the acoustic environment which is EXTREMELY important in a mastering suite.

Mastering gear -->

SaDIE (DAW)
Weiss
GML
ADAM mastering monitors ( http://www.mercenary.com/admasmon.html )

Translation -- setting up a proper mastering facility facility is not an inexpensive proposition, not even counting the required room construction!

 

[regebro]

Nice rack, man.

I couldn't master my way out of a closet, but the typical setup would be
PC->D/A->EQ->Compressor->Tape or Masterlink

YMMV. Mine does.

 

[audioarts]

Blue Bear Sound,

I realize that none of the gear mentioned is anywhere near the level of a true mastering house. What I'm trying to do is take my current setup and notch it up a level or two. Believe it or not, I've been able to achieve fairly modest results with my current setup, primarily using Waves Platinum Bundle Plugins. I've been experimenting with the OTARI MTR-10 1/4" 2-track and I'm very pleased with the results I'm getting at 30 IPS.

Many of my clients aren't willing to pony up the extra $500-1000 for getting their tunes mastered at one of the pro mastering houses here in Dallas. However, I prefer to have them leave with something that is as close as possible to pro-level (this is a "Home Recording" BBS! As I build up my business, I do plan on upgrading to a Sonic or SaDIE system with a few nicer pieces of hardware (I tend to drool excessively over the Manley stuff).

Regarding the room, we're working on plans to improve sonics right now. This is my first priority.

 

[Son of Mixerman]

Any advise on what else I would absolutely need to include in my set up to get up and going?

A Mastering Desk would be the first thing you need to build.
The route is never the same, and the cost is pretty high.
You could either sell or buy replacements for the Neve's and the RNC. Mic pres are normally something you find in a Mastering Room. Move towards decent parametric eq's and compressors and a independent limiter. Clean with the ability to add color on a case by case basis is the general direction you want to move in. Brad Blackwood is building up a new console and he might offer some insight. Its good to build it with expandability in mind.
Your at that awkward stage right now..you know what you need to do it but don't really have the funds to put all in motion. If you haven't thought about a business loan maybe you should. A loan that fits within your income limitations obviously. Some of the matering greats did lots of great albums in seriously compromised situations. Ask Bob Katz about how he got around working in square rooms. I know of a website or two where you can learn alot and still have alot more to learn. Real smart and super nice folks with a thousand years of combined experience to ease transitioning into the big house. If Mastering is the business you want to be in that is.
Maybe "masteringhouse" will pop in to help , more than qualified to answer all your questions.

SoMm

 

[masteringhouse]

Hey All,

Trying to set up a decent mastering room at a new studio. I have been mastering audio with Wavelab (4.0) for the past 3-4 years and have recently purchased a few outboard pieces to compliment the digital realm and warm up my mixes. Looking for some advice for signal path of the gear I currently have:

PC with Hammerfall HDSP 9652 (light pipe/SPDIF) outputs
LUCID 96K D/A converter
Neve 1272 Mic Pre's (stereo pair)
Neve 33135A EQs
RNC1773 Compressor
Otari MTR-10 1/4" 2 track recorder
Alesis Masterlink

I will probably want to route the audio back into my pc to finish assembling CD tracks, apply noise reduction if needed, and any final level/color adjustments, dither, and finally creating the CD premaster.

Any advise on what else I would absolutely need to include in my set up to get up and going? Is the above signal path good? I plan on using Mogami Cable throughout.

Blue Bear might have been a bit rough on ya. Some of the stuff you have is a start.

The Alesis Masterlink is used by quite a few mastering studios for taking in mixes from this source. I used an Otari MTR-10 when I did alot of the radio shows for King Biscuit. When aligned, biased, and calibrated properly should be fine for 1/4" tape (do people still send mixes this way?)

I think where you're really falling short is the EQ that you plan on using. A Neve 33135A has been used more for broadcast purposes than for mastering. Being financially constrained (aren't we all) the Waves Masters Bundle might be your best start. For about half the price of a professional outboard EQ you get a lowband and multiband EQ, plus an L2. The restoration bundle is quite good as well/

The dynaudio BM6As aren't a bad choice to start, especially with a BX30 sub. If you plan on ever doing 5.1 these are a very good choice as you can pick up the other 3 speakers plus sub as finances allow.

Not clear on what DAW you plan on using or CD creation software.

The room acoustics are of major importance, so you may want to set aside some funds for treatment.

I wouldn't put my "Mastering" shingle out yet if I was limited to the gear list you described, but try a few small projects for practice. Your ear is the most important piece of gear that you will ever own.

 

[masteringhouse]

Oops, in a bit of a rush when I wrote the last reply. I see that you're using WaveLab 4.0 with the Platinum bundle. Not Pro, but not a bad start ...

 

[sjoko2]

None of that gear is really up to snuff as far as professional mastering goes.... and as well, those monitors would be sorely lacking.... and I didn't hear you mention anything about the acoustic environment which is EXTREMELY important in a mastering suite.

Mastering gear -->

SaDIE (DAW)
Weiss
GML
ADAM mastering monitors ( http://www.mercenary.com/admasmon.html )

Translation -- setting up a proper mastering facility facility is not an inexpensive proposition, not even counting the required room construction!

Of cause everything depends on opinions ------ I tried the Adams, cannot stand them, and definately could not use them for mastering, whereas I would ALWAYS have a pair of BM6's in the room. (our new mastering room is most likely going to be fitted with the new Linn 328A's http://www.linn.co.uk/linn_professional/)
A Sadie system is nice, it allows you to work quickly and efficiently, and its very good indeed for SACD authoring. But, its by no means a must-have for red book mastering. There are much cheaper systems / software programs that do the same (wavelab, waveburner pro, sequoya , I cannot think of the spelling...., just not as efficient as a Sadie.
However, what you will need is a pure signal path, both analogue and digital, superb compressors, limiters and EQ, as well as the best possible A/D and D/A converters, this in addition to a good environment and good ears.

Looking at the "start-up gear list" I think the key shortfall will be the hammer thing and its SPDIF outputs, as that is really not a suiteable format for any mastering path.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Agreed... my point was not so much to provide specific gear examples as to illustrate the differences between a recording set-up, and a mastering set-up... and his gear list, as described, appeared to me to be more recording-oriented, and I was afraid he might not have been aware that a different focus on signal path would be necessary.

 

[masteringhouse]

Looking at the "start-up gear list" I think the key shortfall will be the hammer thing and its SPDIF outputs, as that is really not a suiteable format for any mastering path.

Agreed. However if your source material comes in as digital, you can probably get around this in the short term by using only the Waves plugs and bouncing down to disk. Where this becomes an issue is when you are mastering or transferring from analog in which case you'll definitely need to start looking at better AD/DA converters. Also, if you start getting into pro level outboard gear like the Weiss units you'll need to go AES.

I never really thought of Wavelab as a Pro level editor, but I was surfing around and found one studio that is using it, or at least has it on their gear list:

http://www.mastermindproductions.net/studio.htm

 

[sjoko2]

Agreed. However if your source material comes in as digital, you can probably get around this in the short term by using only the Waves plugs and bouncing down to disk. Where this becomes an issue is when you are mastering or transferring from analog in which case you'll definitely need to start looking at better AD/DA converters. Also, if you start getting into pro level outboard gear like the Weiss units you'll need to go AES.

I never really thought of Wavelab as a Pro level editor, but I was surfing around and found one studio that is using it, or at least has it on their gear list:

http://www.mastermindproductions.net/studio.htm

There is no way of getting around you spdif problem if, as I presume id the case, you go spdif out to the 9624's. In other words, whay you are hearing through your monitors is a less than perfect signal, which will not allow you to make the right judgements on processing. One thing you can do is ensure your spdif cable is top notch, as the format is hyper sensitive to that. Put, for instance, a short Zaolla cable between your hammerfall and the 9624, and you will hear an immediate and destinct improvement in the stereo imaging and dept of the material.
Second thing is, do not underestimate the Lucid 9624. A very large number of mastering facilities use Apogee converters, and the little Lucid's comfortably kick the Apogee's ass. In addition where some top mastering facilities favor Weiss converters, there is something to be said against those as well, as there are better converters now available.

 

[masteringhouse]

There is no way of getting around you spdif problem if, as I presume id the case, you go spdif out to the 9624's. In other words, whay you are hearing through your monitors is a less than perfect signal, which will not allow you to make the right judgements on processing. One thing you can do is ensure your spdif cable is top notch, as the format is hyper sensitive to that. Put, for instance, a short Zaolla cable between your hammerfall and the 9624, and you will hear an immediate and destinct improvement in the stereo imaging and dept of the material.
Second thing is, do not underestimate the Lucid 9624. A very large number of mastering facilities use Apogee converters, and the little Lucid's comfortably kick the Apogee's ass. In addition where some top mastering facilities favor Weiss converters, there is something to be said against those as well, as there are better converters now available.

If you feel that this is an issue (over short cable lengths I've found the results to be trivial), you may want to try using the optical output (TOS-LINK) from the Hammerfall to the Lucid.

You may also want to give the AES/EBU output of the 9652 a try. I hear that it may be possible by creating a cable to convert the RME's RCA ends (pin, hot; shield, cold; Earth "floating") to an XLR AES end that may work for the input of the Lucid.

According to the technical specs:

http://www.rme-audio.com/english/hdsp/hdsp9652.htm

It does advertise an AES/EBU format output. It may be worth a call to RME Tech Support to find out the details.

 

[audioarts]

Thanks for all of the input guys. Very helpful. I'm sure there are many others in this group with aspirations of greatness when it comes to setting up a world-class mastering room on a budget.

Incidentally, I am using the toslink output from the RME card into the Lucid D/A converter and it sounds great to my ears. I will investigate some more on trying out the AES/EBU option.

I made some more trials this past week using the Otari MTR-10 1/4" two track machine as a mixdown medium. I am really amazed at how quiet the tape runs at 30 IPS. There is a very very low noise floor. When I bounced the mixes back to digital and analyzed the two wave files with my ears and visually, there was a noticable enhancement in depth of field and it definitely took some of the edge off of the electric guitar and snare. I didn't hit the tape too hard so the saturation effect was very light but definitely sounded better to me. Makes me wonder how much better it will sound when I have the budget to upgrade to a 1/2" machine.

 

[masteringhouse]

I made some more trials this past week using the Otari MTR-10 1/4" two track machine as a mixdown medium. I am really amazed at how quiet the tape runs at 30 IPS. There is a very very low noise floor. When I bounced the mixes back to digital and analyzed the two wave files with my ears and visually, there was a noticable enhancement in depth of field and it definitely took some of the edge off of the electric guitar and snare. I didn't hit the tape too hard so the saturation effect was very light but definitely sounded better to me. Makes me wonder how much better it will sound when I have the budget to upgrade to a 1/2" machine.

Are you taking the original mix and bouncing back and forth from digital, or are you mixing to tape?

I wouldn't recommend taking a mix and doing this as part of my normal mastering signal path. You are introducing noise and another A/D conversion when doing this. I'm assuming that the tape machine is well calibtrated with good heads. If not, you are distorting the audio even further.

If you want to take edge off of the guitars, try reducing 2.5-3K digitally first. If you really want a tape saturation effect, try a good digital tape simulator plug-in or the Crane Song HEDD. Digidesign will also be coming out with the Crane Song Phoenix plugin hopefully soon. You may also want to try a slight amount of analog processing with the Neve's and possibly a tube compressor, but then your back to another A/D conversion (with hopefully less noise). At least with outboard gear you will have more control over the sound that you want to acheive rather than throwing it against tape and hoping for the best.

Depth of field is a very subjective term, this should be accomplished in the mix by using levels, reverb, delay, panning, and EQ in the individual tracks. In mastering you have less control over the individual elements so if the guitars are falling back it's probably due to a roll off of the high frequencies. As a result the cymbals and other elements are probably moving back by an equal amount. Rather than using tape, possibly one of the Waves plugs (S1 Stereo Imager?) will do this for you if used judiciously. Not really a big fan of these, if possible it would be better to speak with the engineer and have them fix a bad mix.

 

[audioarts]

Actually, what I've tried is using the two track as a mixdown medium from our ProTools TDM rig. I will also be using it from my Nuendo Workstation. Then I am bouncing the audio via a Hammerfall A/D Converter into Wavelab for editing, eq, compression/limiting and dithering. In my DAW, I have been getting good sounding results from the UAD-1 dsp plugins like their LA-2A, 1176, and Pultec EQ. I've also started getting to like Izotope Ozone, especially for some of their multiband components.

As far as the tape machine goes, I definitely need to get it calibrated since I haven't done this since we installed it (the heads are in great shape tho).

When I mentioned taking the edge off of the guitars, I probably wasn't using the right terminology. The mixes already sound very good and balanced to me. All I really wish to do is put a little spit and polish on the mixes and crank the levels (reasonably). The effect of the tape seems to soften the crunch of the guitars and clarify the position of some of the individual instruments to my ears.

I've heard great things about the HEDD and we are realistically considering one. I've also heard that is sports and great sounding AD/DA feature too. Haven't seen one yet but I'm saving my pennies.

Any advise as far as mastering EQ's go. I've seen and heard the Massive Passive. How does it fair against the Massenburg and Avalon outboard units? It definitely seems more affordable!

I will also be on the lookout for a well rounded mastering compressor/limiter. Any suggestions here?

Thanks again for all of the great info!

 

[masteringhouse]

Any advise as far as mastering EQ's go. I've seen and heard the Massive Passive. How does it fair against the Massenburg and Avalon outboard units? It definitely seems more affordable!

I will also be on the lookout for a well rounded mastering compressor/limiter. Any suggestions here?

Thanks again for all of the great info!

The choice of EQ and compressor is really a matter of individual tastes and the way that you want to work. With the amount of work coming through I need to be able to recall settings back and forth between projects easily and have gone digital for EQ. There is also less phase distortion with a good digital EQ, though some engineers like to use this as an effect as it gives an analog "character" to the sound. I use the Weiss EQ1 and when needed use the Waves Mastering bundle plug-ins on individual tracks if they stray too far from the norm.

For compression I use a Weiss DS1, a Crane Song STC 8 (analog) and an L2 for the majority of my work.

I've heard great results from both the Avalons and Massenburg. I don't think that you can go wrong with either. Also check out Millenia, Sontec, and Manley.