making a living in the recording biz?

[postalblue]

i'd like to know if there are many of you guys making a living with semi-pro gear or even out of your garage/basement and from the pros i'd like to know how much can i expect to make if i really decide to invest in my 'studio'.
i know this is kinda rude, but you don't have to identify yourself.
i'm just trying to make an evaluation, and have a better idea of what i can expect from this business, even though i'm in a different country.

thanks in advance to all those who decide to contribute their experiences.
adriano

 

[NoFO]

i think a better poll would be

How much do you make as a recording engineer/studio owner?

A) <$10,000/yr
B) <$20,000/yr
C) <$30,000/yr
D) I'm supposed to get PAID?

Owning a studio is like owning a computer, every few years it's obsolete and you have to buy a new one... maybe not because your studio can't do the job, but because every musician with internet access or that buys a recording mag wants what they sees there ..... (can your adats do 24bit? nope? see ya later) i remember the studio i worked for used to lose gigs b/c we were running last year's pro tools and 16 bit adats when 20's were coming out. loyal clients would leave even though they wre perfectly happy with all the work we'd done, but our stuff was not wht was featured in the mags...

go solo. work for a studio, become friends with all the clients, keep in touch with them, and then when you leave that studio, let them know that you still want to work with them, wherever you may be, then work for different studios as a freelance engineer, rent out studios for your own clients, and get a decent stereo recording setup for doing on site gigs. great money, $250+ a gig for 3 hours "work" which means, setting up the mics, getting the levels, changing the tapes inbetween sets and see ya later. have a decent "mastering" setup at home, heck if you are doing a high school or community band, they don't want to send it away to some dude to have it mastered for $500.00, you can make an extra $150.00 just putting some compression on and putting in the track IDs. i was making a living doing that before my posh stereo salesman job came along, and i'm a slacker, so if you put effort into it, you will do fine. i have a buddy that does freelance work, and he's pretty damn good, no one you've heard of, but he works 8 months a year and has a ton of money, just because he does what i just told you. he finds a studio that's hurting for money (not htat hard to find) and gets a great rate, say $15.00 an hour, charges his clients $40.00 an hour and he's set...


just my thoughts....

 

[postalblue]

i think a better poll would be

How much do you make as a recording engineer/studio owner?

A) <$10,000/yr
B) <$20,000/yr
C) <$30,000/yr
D) I'm supposed to get PAID?

that's why i sort of stressed 'making a living'.
none of that applies to my country though, at least most of it doesn't. people here are usually not in tune with the latest gear releases, and they're more impressed with a big console, and an orderly well-decorated studio than with bit-depth. high school or community bands are not an option either.
live recording could be an option, i'll look into it.
as for renting someone else's studio, i doubt anyone will give me very low rates to bring in any clients. i've dealt with all studios in my location, and i can tell they wouldn't be up to that. it wouldn't hurt to try though.
anyway, thanks for the input, NoFO.

adriano

 

[JuSumPilgrim]

Yeah, people are more impressed with a console, a million pres and comps than with waves plugs. Although obviously what makes the recording happen has more to do with the plugs, your card and converters and mixing ability than the console which may be barely used. The masses are asses but you have to keep that in mind when decorating your studio with nice looking gear.

There definitely is money to be made in small studio/project studio land. If you are up on current shit (very important) and are into alot of different styles and and dif genres and understand what your client really wants when they dont know exactly how to communicate something --and how to make it better then it doesnt matter if your tracking room is 8 x 12 or 35 x 45 or youre working on an amek console or ghost or mackie.

Also advertising and networking is important.

 

[crawdad]

I'd like to add one more idea to the concept of a successful studio: creature comforts. Making clients feel comfortable is important too. It might be a nice couch, a fridge with some food and beverages, or even a workspace with good lighting. There is a commercial place where I live that charges $400 an hour and they do mostly voiceovers and edits of library music--but they have a BAR! And great furniture! And a nice environment. The bar looks like a nice restaurant! My point is that they cater to the upscale clients from the ad world and get the big bucks for doing it. Of course, they are very good at what they do and they handle each project in an organized and professional manner. I guarantee that none of their clients know a thing about bit depth or whats current in terms of equipment. Bottom line:if it looks expensive and is a pleasurable environment, they'll spend the money and leave feelinmg like they got the best there is. By the way, they run eleven sound suites every day. Food for thought.

 

[JuSumPilgrim]

Absolutely, Crawdad.

I kind of had to learn that the hard way. When I started out I thought all that mattered was the quality of my work. The cramped tracking and control rooms with pieces of dif colored carpet laying unevenly across the floor didnt matter, the shelves of rec books, manuals and folders strewn about, wires all over the floor, spoke for my creative personality But that wasnt cutting it. While I was getting a certain demographic--poor but talented musicians who cared more about the quality of the work than the environment-- I was not being considered as much by more established groups, people who had done work in bigger studios for more money and were used to the nice couch, free alcohol and general ambience of a nicely designed place. Ive been changing that slowly but surely, painting, renovating, changing the lighting (which does alot to the sense of space a place has) and although my place aint the biggest its well laid out for the space and has great ambience.

 

[Krakit]

If I remember corectly, I grossed something like $26K when I was working as an engineer in the 80's.

Carl

 

[chessrock]

I get the feeling that a lot of studios have been running things like the field of dreams . . . expecting that if their studio is built, the clients will come.

Welcome to the real world.

Just like anything else, fellas, you gotta' be able to sell. You have to network . . . you have to market, and you can't be afraid to (gasp!) cold-call. I can't tell you how many people I've talked to who own established studios, and I ask them if they have a sales force. Maybe one person I talked to has a guy that does some marketing. No sales people to speak of. Just some studio owner/manager who answers the phone and complains that business ain't what it used to be.

Meanwhile, the economy sucks, and marketing departments are under pressure to cut corners. And guess what? Marketing departments and ad agencies don't know the first thing about audio engineering. Of course they will be impressed with fancy gear, because they don't know any better! THAT'S WHY SOMEONE HAS TO EDUCATE THEM. And believe me, if you educate them, they will come!

These guys will get a big, huge pat on the back (and possibly a raise) if they can save their company or their clients money. Conversely, they will get a swift kick in the ass if they produce shitty work. So convince them that you can give them the best of both worlds -- top quality work at a much lower price than if they want to go that "trendy place with the bar and all those gadgets and gizmos."

Unfortunately, you might have to spend a little extra time wearing your marketing hat . . . and unfortunately your're going to have to dust off that sales hat, too.

Welcome, again, to the real world.

 

[JuSumPilgrim]

What Ive been saying since the whole homerec revolution started a couple of years ago is that there IS a real business plan here. If you can truly do the same job for less, people will come and the big boys will be phased out to some extent. Unfortunately, advertising costs money and when youre focused on constantly upgrading your setup, saving for this mic, that plug, or that really great pre which will truly take you out of project studioland, advertising takes a back seat. There are ways to do it inexpensively though, like putting postcards (band promo style) at rehearsal studios and musical venues.

 

[TexRoadkill]

When I worked as a keyboard/sound/lighting tech most of the gigs were cash and I didnt keep very good records (taxes, what taxes?). I doubt I made more than 20K in a year but I sure had a lot of fun and free time.

I finally decided to get a real job and now I can actually afford all the equipment I never could as a 'professional'. I sure miss the free time though ;p

 

[TexRoadkill]

I have been considering going back into the 'biz' and was trying to come up with a good business model. I guess like any small business the key is finding your niche market.

 

[chessrock]

. . . Unfortunately, advertising costs money and when youre focused on constantly upgrading your setup, saving for this mic, that plug, or that really great pre which will truly take you out of project studioland, advertising takes a back seat. There are ways to do it inexpensively though, like putting postcards (band promo style) at rehearsal studios and musical venues.

How about actually showing up to gigs, buy the band a round of beer, introduce yourself . . . tell them you like their sound, and you think you could really do some great work for them. Give them a sample of your work with a business card and be off.

For advertising agencies, it's simple: send them brochures and samples of your work . . . keep in touch with them and buy them pizza from time to time. Ad Agency folks work a lot crazier hours than studio engineers. Their hotbuttons are 1) saving their clients money, and 2) free food! I know because I was one in a former life.

They'll catch on -- it just takes them time, because they're used to doing things a certain way, and they are creatures of habbit. But if they can save their clients money, they are rock stars.

 

[crawdad]

I have been considering going back into the 'biz' and was trying to come up with a good business model. I guess like any small business the key is finding your niche market.

Tex is right on. Finding your niche is the key. I am as far away from pop or rock music as a guy can be. Never recorded a rock band, except my own blues/rock group. I don't really have a room to do it.

I am a project studio owner and my clients are ad agencies, public relations firms, corporate entertainment agencies and independent producers who create projects for corporations. I have found that these projects are far more lucrative per hour than trying to compete with demo studios who deal with local musicians who can't afford studio time to begin with. Funny thing is, I learned the craft while making songwriting demos at a time that I was signed to a publishing company.

There are a lot of avenues besides these. I have considered putting together a service that is dedicated to live recording. My idea was to have a 16 track mobile recording set-up, get a great live recording and make up the money in mixing and mastering live albums for local groups. I've also considered a songwriter demo service, in which I pitch my ability to make great sounding demos to aspiring songwriters who don't have the wherewithal to do it themselves.

If I had more confidence and a few more plugs/gear, I'd offer a local mastering service--but I am not up to that as yet.

Whatever you do, you have to get out and impress clients with your wares and services. If you are really good, the work speaks for itself. Still, you have to get your work and services in the face of people who want them. And--yes--there is some hype and mumbo jumbo to the whole thing. A room filled with outboard gear and a big mixer, with great lighting will make a cat with an all-in--one digital mixer/cd burner/digital recorder look pretty low budget by comparison. Heck, I keep some old gear in my rack which I never use, just to add to the confusion! After all, clients want sonic magic performed. They don't know how it happens, but when they see racks full of blinking gizmo's, they figure something cool is happening.

Still, the bottom line is the final result. I've had clients come to me who tried fancier studios, but returned because they felt I gave them a better quality product. Conversely, I know I have lost potential clients because my studio doesn't look like Wally Heiders or whatever. If you find the right niche, you can keep busy and make good money.

 

[wes480]

true true..

I think there is plenty of room for homerecers and pros to both exist and make a lot of money...with the right business plan.

the best in the world will always want to work with the best in the world.

But if everyone else can sound like that for $ that they can afford - they will. A lot of it is finding out how you can be most productive....get the best results, and market the best.

a friend of mine used to run a studio in the suberbs of atlanta...ran it for about 10 years, eventually was doing more radio/commercial spots than anything else. He had protools...the whole deal trying to stay on top...had a great studio in an office park..hardwood floors...nice control rooms...high class.

About 2 years ago he sold off a lot of the equipment/furniture, got rid of the office and parted ways with his employees. At his house now he has a closet for a tracking room, and a bonus room for all of the gear. Basically using his old adat, a few decent mics, and midi. But, he knows what he is doing.

he runs a company now called "Soundpages", mostly does real audio stuff for websites...and also audio tracks for macromedia based web sites and what not. Never has to leave his home if he doesn't want to - and he is making more money than he ever did. Found a niche and ran with it.....his marketing is good.

 

[Bodhisan]

Interesting how this post has the most views but not a lot of replies (out of the top dozen or so topics).

I think we're all wanting to know how much "real" music people are making...or maybe it's like in "Boogie Nights" when the question is asked, "how much can you bench?", and you wait until the other person answers so you can always say more when you answer...and then it gets all confusing, and here we go with a ramble!!!!

But seriously, how much do I make? In all honesty, I pay myself to record myself, and if I can't come up with the cash, I put it on the tab. If I didn't have a frickin' tab, I wouldn't be able to record shinola.

Ole.

 

[TexRoadkill]

I remember when I was just out of high school I was trying to figure out how to get the good production jobs i.e. the ones where you spent more time twisting knobs and less time unloading trucks.

It was such a revelation to me that the way you get that job is to just buy the damn equipment. Although that is much easier said than done.

I just say this because people ask about going to recording and film schools. Screw school. Spend the money buying or renting equipment and start building up a good portfolio. But the most important thing is having the business sense and the equipment.

95% of the gun for hire engineers don't make more than $35k a year and there are a lot of industry jobs that pay less. It's the guys who own the studio or production company that have any real chance at making good money.

 

[postalblue]

i guess i kind of took a shot in the dark with my estimate values in this poll, as i really have no idea how much people earn in average in the usa, let alone a recording engineer. so if people can contribute more realistic figures, i'll oblige.

bodhisan, unlike many others i'm not ashamed to say that as a public worker (i have a bureaucratic job in our local court of law) in brazil, i earn around $20k a year, which may not seem like much by american standards, but it's pretty good here since anything you need to buy here is usually half the price it is in the usa, except for imports. also being in the public service is kind of a priviledge, since we can never get fired, and we make quite a bit more money than the average person working in the industry. i don't make any money with music though, except for a few pennies i'm getting from royalties of my meagerly-selling cds.

so my main purpose here is really to get an idea of how much an engineer with a bottom-feeder studio can make, so i'll divide by 2, and have an idea of how much I COULD make.

as for how much i can bench, i don't bench, i'm a dipper. i usually do 8 reps with 55lbs around my waist. and it's true. and i know there are a hell of a lot of guys who can bench 400lbs, and i can't, but i don't really care. i admire their strength, and the same goes to those who can record better than i do, and/or make more money.

anyway, thanks to all those who contributed so far.

adriano

 

[smellyfuzz]

THE BEST ADVICE EVER !!!!!!

How about actually showing up to gigs, buy the band a round of beer, introduce yourself . . . tell them you like their sound, and you think you could really do some great work for them. Give them a sample of your work with a business card and be off.

I own a small business, not music, AND that is how you get customers.

 

[Mark H.]

Here's a useful analogy to support what's already been said: the son of a colleague of mine graduated from film school at San Francisco State. Most aspiring young filmmakers are living on packaged noodles and bumming sleeping space at their friends' apartments. He went out and discovered that attorneys pay good money for videotaped depositions. His second year doing depositions, he had three employees and netted $85K.

Mark H.

 

[Mossberg]

Owning a studio is like owning a computer, every few years it's obsolete and you have to buy a new one... maybe not because your studio can't do the job, but because every musician with internet access or that buys a recording mag wants what they sees there ..... (can your adats do 24bit? nope? see ya later) i remember the studio i worked for used to lose gigs b/c we were running last year's pro tools and 16 bit adats when 20's were coming out. loyal clients would leave even though they wre perfectly happy with all the work we'd done, but our stuff was not wht was featured in the mags...

go solo. work for a studio, become friends with all the clients, keep in touch with them, and then when you leave that studio, let them know that you still want to work with them, wherever you may be, then work for different studios as a freelance engineer, rent out studios for your own clients, and get a decent stereo recording setup for doing on site gigs. great money, $250+ a gig for 3 hours "work" which means, setting up the mics, getting the levels, changing the tapes inbetween sets and see ya later. have a decent "mastering" setup at home, heck if you are doing a high school or community band, they don't want to send it away to some dude to have it mastered for $500.00, you can make an extra $150.00 just putting some compression on and putting in the track IDs. i was making a living doing that before my posh stereo salesman job came along, and i'm a slacker, so if you put effort into it, you will do fine. i have a buddy that does freelance work, and he's pretty damn good, no one you've heard of, but he works 8 months a year and has a ton of money, just because he does what i just told you. he finds a studio that's hurting for money (not htat hard to find) and gets a great rate, say $15.00 an hour, charges his clients $40.00 an hour and he's set...


just my thoughts.... [/B]

That's why I luv Analog because Digital stuff goes obsolete VERY quickly.

I dont think I have to worry about 2" and SSL boards going anywhere for a while. Hell, look how long it's lasted up til now. Can't say the same for the majority of digital formats.

LONG LIVE ANALOG!!!