Main Mix & Control Room Out?

Gareth Williams

Gareth Williams

Member
Hi, I’m using a Denon Professional DN-412X mixer. I’m baffled by something and I’d be grateful for any help. https://www.denonpro.com/index.php/products/view/dn-412x

I’ve read the instruction manual, which you can find via the link “downloads” on the page link above, and can’t work out what the difference is between the main mix out and the control room out. It says you can select to hear one or the other on the headphones, and it says must select to send the phono (2 track) or USB inputs to one or the other, if you have those input sources. Other than that what is the difference?

I don’t have any phono or USB input in my set up so does that mean the main mix and the control room out is identical at all times? It just doesn’t make any sense! Is this two separate things just in case you have phono or USB inputs?

Thanks for your help,
Gareth.
 
The control room output generally allows you to solo inputs (or use the cue feature on a DJ mixer). It will often also allow monitoring of outputs other than the main mix, for example aux sends.
 
Yeah, what he said. Your input channels feed the main fader, and that feeds the main outputs. This mixing console is designed primarily for a sound reinforcement or “live sound” application, so typically your main outs will feed an amp that drives your main house speakers. The control room circuit, which includes the control room out jacks and the headphones jack, has some flexible functionality as far as it’s source or sources for you as the console operator to be able to monitor some different signal paths independent of the main mix outputs…OR you can monitor the main mix. So you see the control circuit has a switch to source the main mix, or the cue mix. And then you have an analog two-track return, and that can be assigned to the main mix, or assigned to the cue buss and monitored by the control room circuit, and additionally you have a digital return with the USB input and that can be assigned to the main mix, or assigned to the control room circuit directly, independent of the position of the control room source switch.

Hopefully that helps. If it’s still not very clear, maybe share something more about your specific setup and application and I can offer input as to how I would use the console given your application and setup.
 
Thanks Sweet Beats. Well, what I’m trying to do is send the main mix output from the mixer to a recording device. The main mix out goes to the speakers so I used the phono (2 track) out. It worked Ok but I’d rather use the control room 1/4 inch jack outs because, and this is quite a long story!, to send from the phono outs I need to use a phono to jack adapter and from that I need to use female to male jack leads to go to the recording device. However, I need my female to male jack leads for something else so I would rather use the control room out and just use normal jack leads.

The other option is the AUX send but this is mono and my recording device has dual jack inputs so I wasn’t sure about using that. It does have a pair of outs in AUX Send, AUX 1 and AUX 2 but I think it’s just for sending it to two separate things rather than sending stereo to one thing.

So basically I need to know what the difference is between main mix and control room out and want to use control room out via two normal jack instrument cables. I still don’t know what the difference is, other than one or other can have those additional input sources. When you said “you see the control circuit has a switch to source the main mix, or the cue mix” What do you mean? What is the control circuit?
 
I meant control room circuit. I was talking about the switch located above the headphone level knob.

The manual isn’t very well-written, and there’s no block diagram…there’s a ton of key info missing from the specifications. Reading closer and reading between the lines, it appears maybe the control room out jacks always source the main mix? Along with the main outs and the 2-track outs? They all source the main mix? The difference with the control room outs is you can also assign the 2-track input jacks and USB input to the control room out jacks or the main mix. And then your headphones can source either the main mix or the control room out. I’d have to have the console in front of me to confirm because the manual isn’t clear…there is conflicting information between the poorly-written manual and the labeling on the console itself.

So you can feed your speakers and master recorder with whatever jacks you want to use apparently (2-track out, main mix out, control room out), it’s just I don’t see how you control the output level of the 2-track out and control room out, because the manual isn’t clear. Normally with console like this I would expect there to be a control room out level control. The labeling on the control surface alludes that the headphone level control also controls the control room out level, and that’s what I would expect, but that’s not what the manual says. They also intermix the terms “cue” and “control room”…They are the same. They also intermix the terms “AUX” and “MONITOR”. They are the same. Does the level at the control room out jacks change as you adjust the phones level control? And then I guess the 2-track out level is controlled by the main fader?

FYI, a “phono” jack is traditionally a term for a 1/4” TS plug. So when you say “phono 2-track” output I believe you are talking about the “pin-jack” or “RCA” 2-track output jacks right?

And also I’m going to suggest you adjust your thinking to not try and make the mixer functionality fit what cabling or adapters you have available, but determine what outputs (and inputs) are the most appropriate to your need, and get ahold of whatever cabling and/or adapters are necessary to use those most appropriate outputs. I’ve never taken the approach of “I don’t want to/can’t use those outputs because I don’t have the right cable/adapter. I’ll use the outputs that match what cables/adapters I have on-hand instead.” Step 1 is identify the best connections by virtue of the functionality that fits your circumstance, and I know that’s part of what you are trying to do…better understand what those connections are…and maybe once you know and understand that piece you’re considering you may need some additional cabling or adapters, but that’s not clear from your posts, so I wanted to mention it here.

Assuming the “speakers” you have connected to the main outputs are your control room monitor speakers, if it was me I’d have those speakers connected to the control room out jacks (and I hope the phones level knob also controls the output level at the control room out jacks…again, the labeling on the console indicates that’s the case, the manual indicates otherwise but is not clear…), and I’d then connect my 2-track recorder to either the 2-track output jacks or the XLR main output jacks, whichever set best matched my recorder’s inputs. If the recorder is unbalanced input -10dBv nominal I’d use the 2-track outputs because I think that’s what they are (I know they are unbalanced, I’m just not positive about the level standard because, again, terrible manual, the specification is listed nowhere), and if my recorder inputs were balanced +4dBu standard I’d use the XLR main out jacks. Again, I’m assuming the 2-track out jacks and main out jacks are controlled by the main fader, but I don’t really know because the manual doesn’t say. That’s another question you could answer: does the main fader control the level at the 2-track out jacks as well as the XLR main out jacks? Anyway, by doing it this way, assuming there is level control of the control room output jacks, you then have independent control of your level to your control room speakers and your level to your 2-track recorder, and furthermore if ever you need to or want to you have access to the full functionality of your special 2-track returns and the assignability of those to the main mix or to the control room buss. I suppose it’s setup to use either the main mix or control room buss for those returns (the 2-track and USB inputs), but because the control room out jacks are tied to the phones jack it’s best to use the control room out jacks for monitoring and not a 2-track feed in case you want to use headphones while mixing down…your headphone level control will also adjust your 2-track feed if your 2-track recorder is connected to the control room out jacks.
 
You’re damn right the manual is poorly written and conflicts with information on the console! I will try the control room out with jack leads and see what happens. I guess the output level of the RCA and the Control Room has to be the same as the main mix level to the speakers. Like you said it doesn’t say anything about it in the manual!

I don’t know if the headphones level is independent of the control room out jacks. This mixer is in the practice room I use so I don’t have it at home. I would guess they are independent with headphones volume controlling the headphones only and the control room out (and RCA out) level controlled by the main out fader. However, it might be like what you suggested. I’ll check that out next time I’m there!

Yeah, by phono I mean RCA. People call that phono in the UK but that might be wrong! RCA is what it’s actually called. My bad!

If the control room out does exactly the same thing it saves me getting more cables! Like you said, that’s what I was trying to find out!

As it’s in the practice room I can’t switch the speakers from their outputs but I do think the RCA out levels are controlled by the main out fader and therefor must be the same as the main outs to the speakers. I can test this next time I’m there. However, if this is the case it’s not a problem as the main mix level is Ok for my recording device (via RCA) and my recording device has level adjustments anyway.

Anyway, I’ll investigate what controls the levels of the control room out out of the headphones and the main mix, and whether the RCA out and main mix levels are fixed together. Like you said, it doesn’t say in the manual!
 
In the US, phono = RCA (perhaps because phonograph turntables use that connector) and phone = 1/4" (from telephone switchboards). Unfortunately, phone can mean RJ11.
 
The control room outs are for connecting to the inputs of your monitor amplifier, so you can control volume without affecting the level of signal going out the main outs at the same time - such that you run you mix into you DAW or Recording Device - and then monitor it on your NearFileds and Headphones.
 
I just had a look at the manual. It looks like the way the phones, control room and main outputs are configured is meant to make it convenient to use the mixer as an audio interface for multitracking one or two tracks at a time (pretty much like any low channel count interface). I suspect if you're not sending audio from a computer to the mixer via USB, control room will be the same as the main mix. Which is basically what you were thinking it would be.
 
That makes sense…I wasn’t thinking of it that way. It will still be helpful to get clarification from the OP on some of those things I was wondering though. Maybe I need to spend some more quality time with the manual but I still maintain there is missing clarity and conflicting in formation between the device control surface/labeling and the manual. My kingdom for a block diagram…
 
I will confirm these details on Tuesday the 8th of August. I only use this room every two weeks. I know that's a long time to wait! The suspense is annoying me already!
 
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