Main Bus levels

  • Thread starter Thread starter MercyfullMusic
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MercyfullMusic

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I am wondering why it is that my track levels are not in the red on each track's clip meter, but when you look at the main bus out meter it is clipping and I have to bring it down to like -6 or -10 db. Why is this? There are no effects on the main bus to increase gain.

Thanks.
 
Cause you gotta ADD the output of ALL the separate tracks together to equal the total (bus) output...
 
Clipping

If none of the individual tracks clip they can't be louder than the loudest clip right?
 
Re: Clipping

MercyfullMusic said:
If none of the individual tracks clip they can't be louder than the loudest clip right?
Click to expand...

WTF?

If you mean that the individual track level is always going to be less than your main stereo outputs, then yes, you are correct. Clipping or not this is true.

What Major Tom was tryin' to say was that whether or not the "song" clips is determined by -

If Track 1 level + Track 2 level + Track 3 level + ......etc does not clip then the total output of all tracks is LESS than the 0dBFS physical limit for digital audio

If Track 1 level + Track 2 level + Track 3 level + ......etc does clip, then the total output of all tracks is MORE than the 0dBFS physical limit for digital audio

Try compressing or limiting some of your existing tracks to pull down some of those spikes causing the clips.

Ciao,

Q.

<this is the bit where someone slaps me and gives you the correct terms, acronyms and abbreviations to use, but the principle holds true ;) >
 
No, you're right.

The correct term when noticing that for the first time is

WTF

8^0
 
Yup, the Main is additive of ALL the tracks. Much in the same way that a band is louder than a solo instrument.

Therefore, if you are clipping at the Main you either need to back of on the individual tracks, or back off on the Main volume. Personally I like to reduce the individual tracks and leave the Main volume setting at 0db - but, of course, that approach is more time-consuming and tedious. Easy thing is just to lower the Main volume setting until it no longer clips.

If the overall volume seems to be low, but you are still getting clipping, that could indicate a need for compression as Qwerty suggested.
 
Remember the logaritmic scale: Sum = 10*log(vol(1)/10 + vol(2)/10 + ... + vol(n)/10)



Hmmm... Ok, I'll be a nerd somewhere else! :D
 
What about loss?

I understand. The thing I'm worrying about is loss of audio quality. I have heard that for ever -6 db you reduce something there is an audio quality loss as well. Similiar to going from 24 bit to 16 bit. Is this true? I'm getting ready to send my tracks out for mastering and I don't want the guy to get them and then find out that they should have had a hotter level for him to work with.

Thanks
 
I have heard that for ever -6 db you reduce something there is an audio quality loss as well.
Click to expand...
First time I've heard that one.

Generally there is some small signal degradation whenever you do any DSP (digital signal processing) due to rounding errors in the math. If you are working in 24 bits, I certainly wouldn't be concerned with it (and probably wouldn't worry at 16 bits either). And what's the alternative? A clipped audio signal?

What you really need to determine is if there are specific tracks within your project that are limiting your overall mix because of large peaks. Compressing those tracks will help you get more gain out of the entire mix. But don't compress the entire mix - leave that for the ME.

For example if you see the volume meter on the Main trip into the red only on a snare hit, it may mean you need to compress the snare track. Taming that specific track could gain you several more db on the overall mix.
 
Mercyfull

If you're getting your tracks mastered, please don't start changing anything about them.
Are you sending all tracks of a song as a group of wav files that your mastering friend will first mix?
Tell more.
 
Mastering

I'm going to send of 2 different mixes of each of my songs in wav format, 1 which is the mixes straight out of Sonar. The second will be mixes from Sonar which I have compressed in T-Racks. With the two I'm hoping the Mastering engineer will have an idea of how squashed or lack thereof I want his mixes.

I'm pretty excited to see what he does with my music. I've never had any of my mixes professionally mastered. I really have no idea what to expect other than it will be louder, probably nicely compressed, nice transitions between songs, etc. I'm anxious to see if other harmonics are brought out or instruments more defined in the mix, etc. Anyone know?
 
It could be worth letting the ME know which songs, artists and genre you like to give him or her a better picture. If possible, make a cd or cassette with some examples of e.g. admired basslines etc.

Are you thinking of submitting a demo? If so, I believe you've really got all the tools you need already to put together a clean production, if I may say.
 
I'm not submitting a demo, this is my own independent CD I'm trying to self-produce. (EEEK!)

Hopefully this is the first of many more to come. I have learnt alot so far and I'm sure I will only get better.
 
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