Mabye not the right forum but.......

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SouthSIDE Glen said:
4) Why was your critiqe of ez_willis' offerings OK when it was ez_willis you were critiquing, but when it was Wallace you were critiquing, you suddenly think you were made to look the fool? Why should who did it or where it was done make any difference whatsoever?

It shouldn't. Yet it obviously does. And not just to Brief, but to the vast majority of people here. That's a problem.


Good point. I didn't listen to the clips, but I will say, even the great Andy Wallace is not perfect. I am a big fan of most of his technique, but some of what he does makes me say WTF?

My two cents on the MP3 debate - I think a lot of people hide behind "the mp3 conversion ruined my mix" - guess what, It doesn't ruin Andy Wallace's mixes. Now, they are not as good as a 16/44 wav, but a 320 (or heck a 192) mp3 is not destroying the mix either. Furthermore, if you are to the point that the worst thing that happens to your mix is the MP3 conversion, well, you should have at least some gold records on the wall..........:D

edit - I just listened to one of the tracks. I didn't realize it was soundclick - they use 128 mp3's I believe, which is starting to hammer the sound a bit. However, they sound like pro mixes (although I may be biased since I knew they were a head of time). I def don't think it's Andy's best work, but at the same time, the band has way more to do with the sound. No slight on EZ, they sound great, but they aren't Nirvana, or Rage, or......

One last thing - the one biggest thing I don't like about Andy's mixes are the cymbals - he sometimes gives them that "trashy" sorta sound. But that's just a preference thing. I like a Massenburg or Schmitt cymbal sound. Andy kills on the rest of the drums though!
 
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Farview said:
The extra for the tape is because you are putting milage on a very finicky and expensive piece of equipment.

yea, but 250 a day? that's nuts. maybe 100$

and they built this place in 2005-2006.
so no credits, to the studio. and the house enginner is just another local guy with no serious credits to speak of.
(some bigger local acts, but nothing special.)

but..... i'm sure the 750-1000 a day is "card rates" but in 2007 that's nuts even for bs asking prices.

and i think they "frown" on sessions longer then 12 hrs. not exactly sure.

and seriously, electrical studio A with a staff assistant is like 700 a day.
i just saved me enough to make the trip to the windy city worth my time.


and this is bfe.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I'm honestly curious about a few things. Not arguing, just asking about what I think are some interesting discussion points:

1.) What kind of "modern production techniques" are you thinking of? Are you talking abut the RMS not being high enough, or the fact that it probably wasn't done on PT, or something more that? (15 years ago is only 1992, it's not like we're talking about the Dark Ages :) )

Not as processed, not as much compression on mix buss, or individual tracks especially. More reverb than would be used today. The effects use in general doesn't sound modern, like the huge amount of chorus on the acoustics in one of the songs, the wild flanger effect in another, etc. There would be more presence and high end. This recording sounds more natural(other than effects) than most pro mixes I hear now. For better or worse, I don't think modern productions sound very natural, and maybe I was hearing the natural sound of the recording as being lower quality gear. In retrospect it doesn't make sense, especially with how well the midrange blends together and how the elements coalesce. When I got better gear, things seemed to blend together better.

SouthSIDE Glen said:
2.) In 2022, which is only 15 years from now, are today's "modern production techniques" going to be considered as wrong as what people did in 1992 are to be considered today? If so, then why should we consider them to be such gold standards by which to judge?

I didn't say it was wrong per se, it just sounds aged simply because people mix things differently now. The mix of the midrange sounds good for any era though.

SouthSIDE Glen said:
3.) If in a blind test like ez_ just gave, someone with admittedly good ears and good judgement (I found your detaild critique of the material to be insightful and balanced) can't tell the difference between a pro recording in a big studio by a marquee name from an above-average amateur production done on average prosumer gear, then what's the point of making the comparison? Why is it relevant to say that any given production does not sound like a "pro job" when even many pro jobs do not sound like "pro jobs"? What is the standard? How is a "pro job" defined?

On average a pro job will sound a lot better IMO. I have less than a handful of self made or project studio that sound awesome(songwriting withstanding). I don't have very many "pro job" cd's that don't have a minimum level of sonics to where I could say "this sounds commercial"(songwriting withstanding). When you have better acoustics, better gear, and more experienced people, the output is going to be more consistent. I think that makes sense.

SouthSIDE Glen said:
IMHO, this is far too important of a point to dismiss, and I'd like to grab it while the opportunity avails itself.

It's like the old "if you tell them it's done by a famous painter, then it's a profound work of art; but as soon as you tell them it was done by a 4yr old child, it's just child's play" argument. Repeated tests have been made on that issue to repeatedly show that art critics are extremely biased for the artists and against the art itself. IMHO, that same kind of bias permeates the timbre of critiques heard repeatedly on BBSs like this one.

SouthSIDE Glen said:
Which brings me to the big question:
4) Why was your critiqe of ez_willis' offerings OK when it was ez_willis you were critiquing, but when it was Wallace you were critiquing, you suddenly think you were made to look the fool? Why should who did it or where it was done make any difference whatsoever?

It shouldn't. Yet it obviously does. And not just to Brief, but to the vast majority of people here. That's a problem.

G.

My whole thing was just that it was done 15 years ago. 15 years ago I would have said it great I'm sure, and not cared about the stylistic differences between productions of that time and now. Maybe the biggest thing is just overall RMS level, I don't know. I know that I used to think Tool - Aenima sounded amazing when it first came out, and now I'm not as impressed with it. Maybe I'm getting too used to overcompression?
 
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Andy Wallace produced that cd, which was my last band.

It was recorded in 1992 at Rumbo Recorders in Canoga Park. We were on Hollywood Records at the time. The band was called The Poorboys, the disc was called Pardon Me.
 
Good music will shine through on even a 128k MP3......Good players, some good recordings and good production. That's a good start.
 
ez_willis said:
Andy Wallace produced that cd, which was my last band.

It was recorded in 1992 at Rumbo Recorders in Canoga Park. We were on Hollywood Records at the time. The band was called The Poorboys, the disc was called Pardon Me.

What was it like working with Wallace?
 
Dogman said:
Good music will shine through on even a 128k MP3......Good players, some good recordings and good production. That's a good start.

So true.

All of the 'professional' recordings you hear sound great even at 128KBPS. Mine, not so good except for recent ones where I've actually been able to get a better sound. The last few recordings I've made, I can't tell THAT much of a difference between the WAV and MP3.
 
i worked with wallace as an intern actually (made him coffee :o ), he was amazing at handelling the tallent.

when they were out of the room the fur occasionally flew, but everything was smooth as ice as far as the artist knew.
it was very impressive.
 
BRIEFCASEMANX said:
What was it like working with Wallace?

The guy was awesome.

We were real into bands like Sly, Humble Pie, tons of Motown, Stones, Beatles, etc, and listening to them heavily.

We all were staying at the Oakwoods in Burbank, and after tracking the band was always back at the apartments getting loaded. He'd come over and rock out with us and partake in the goods that he had avoided for decades. :D

But overall, the man was intelligent, knew his craft supremely, was a great motivator, had great people skills, meaning he would talk to you on your level instead of being condescending, and a pleasure to work with. Very professional.

And this was shortly after he mixed Nevermind, and the success that came with that.

We interviewed Glyn Johns, Brendan O'Brien, and a shitload of other top notch people, and Andy just seemed to fit better with our personalities.
 
Farview said:
There isn't one around here.

Na, but there should be plenty of Olive Gardens or Bennigan's out there in the strip malls, eh? :D

In Glen's neighborhood, you could get a free car-jacking (or a drunk irishman) with any order over 50 bucks, I hear.

(For those of you in St. Charles, I might suggest looking up "car jacking" in Wikipedia for an explanation).
.
 
chessrock said:
In Glen's neighborhood, you could get a free car-jacking (or a drunk irishman) with any order over 50 bucks.
No car jacking here. It's almost all cops and firemen in my hood; one of the lowest crime rates in the whole metro area.

Drunken Irishmen, though, that's a different story. This place is infested with those clowns. :( I'm one of the few non-Irish, non city-workers left in this hood. At least we're not loaded with transvestite Cubs fans down here like you are up there in Bucktooth, Chess ;).

And, unfortunately, no Lou Malnati's down here either. We do, however, have two Papa Joes', which makes the absolute best stuffed pizza in the country (yes, even better than Pizzaria Uno/Due, IMHO.)

G.
 
chessrock said:
Na, but there should be plenty of Olive Gardens or Bennigan's out there in the strip malls, eh? :D
Yup, all with plentiful free parking.

I'm keeping the strip malls at bay with my 7 acres of land.
 
Seriously, Chess is in Bucktown? Better be careful starting rumors like that.

I had my fill of drunken Irishmen when I was in Ireland. Of course, being half Irish myself I drank more whisky in three weeks in Ireland than I do in three years here in the USA. I guess you're happy I'm not in your neighborhood, huh Glen? :D
 
SonicAlbert said:
Seriously, Chess is in Bucktown?
So he said once before on this forum, anyway.

SonicAlbert said:
I had my fill of drunken Irishmen when I was in Ireland. Of course, being half Irish myself I drank more whisky in three weeks in Ireland than I do in three years here in the USA. I guess you're happy I'm not in your neighborhood, huh Glen? :D
Hell, come on up. I'd love to take some of your files/tapes along with a bottle of Jameson's down to the ARS Studios just around the corner from me, and spend a night mixing everything but the alcohol :D.

The funny thing is that the Irish in this hood aren't the ones drinking the Jameson's. All they drink is Miller Lite. At a buck fifty a bottle they can pound down a lot more a lot longer many more days a week than they can a $3.50 a shot for the Jameson's. Even drunk, they're boring. :)

P.S. I'm not knocking Irish. I'm knocking the drunks. There are plenty of fine, upstanding, sober Irish folk around here.

...And one superlative and sober Bavarian/Bohemian! Long live PD&S! ;) :D

G.
 
SonicAlbert said:
I'm more of a Bushmills guy.
Ah, the Protestant side of the tracks, eh? ;)

I prefer Appleton Estate rum myself. Let those redheads beat the the hell out of themselves with their whiskeys, mon; I going to pass the kouchie on the left hand side... :D

G.
 
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