M/S recording

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bairradino

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I belong to an association that provides music live for the public ( voice, strings, and small orchestras), with small ensembles (2-20 musicians).
I want to record that concerts using the M/S recording technique.
The question is:
What mics to use within a budget of $500-$600?
 
Have you considered the Studio Projects LSD2?

I've heard it's especially good in M/S.
 
I live in Portugal, and this microphone costs, here, 880 EUR, equivalent to $1100 !!!
 
mshilarious said:
How much are the Beyer M130/M160?
Click to expand...
1000 for the pair.

get a shinybox ribbon (fig8) www.shinybox.com and a pair of studio projects c-4s. that should be about right..

use the cardiod and the shinybox for your M/S
 
@ BigRay

I didn't understand your configuration.
The ShinyBox 46 (?) should be used for the Side pickup. And for the Middle pickup you suggest a pair of C4?
I have a pair of Rode NT5 that I use for ORTF method, a Shure SM57, a Shure SM58 (for vocals) and a Behringer B1.
As you can see, I don´t have any bidirectional microphone for the Side pickup and I don't know if any of my microphones could make a good job for the Middle pickup.
Thanks for all your replies.
 
at your budget...grab the shinybox and the pair of c4s and of course, only use ONE of them...with the cardiod cap.

dont use any dynamics.. also, if you can find a AT4050 single for around 400 or so, and the shinybox , you would be set. if you cant find the 4050, get the c4 pair and use ONE of them.


bairradino said:
@ BigRay

I didn't understand your configuration.
The ShinyBox 46 (?) should be used for the Side pickup. And for the Middle pickup you suggest a pair of C4?
I have a pair of Rode NT5 that I use for ORTF method, a Shure SM57, a Shure SM58 (for vocals) and a Behringer B1.
As you can see, I don´t have any bidirectional microphone for the Side pickup and I don't know if any of my microphones could make a good job for the Middle pickup.
Thanks for all your replies.
Click to expand...
 
You don't "need" the C4's though. One of the NT5 you already own would work just fine for the mid mic :D

Add the Shinybox to that and you're all set.

FWIW, look into the Apex and (I think) the Nady ribbons as well. I believe they are all pretty much the same. You may find a better price on a ribbon in your area with one of these other brands.
 
bairradino said:
@ BigRay

I didn't understand your configuration.
The ShinyBox 46 (?) should be used for the Side pickup. And for the Middle pickup you suggest a pair of C4?
I have a pair of Rode NT5 that I use for ORTF method, a Shure SM57, a Shure SM58 (for vocals) and a Behringer B1.
As you can see, I don´t have any bidirectional microphone for the Side pickup and I don't know if any of my microphones could make a good job for the Middle pickup.
Thanks for all your replies.
Click to expand...

If you want to go really cheap, you could use your Rode NT5s to produce an approximately figure-8 pattern: place them, opposed and (as nearly as may be) coincident and mix them equally, but with one polarity reversed, and use that as your S signal, then get another low budget condenser for the M signal. It's not as tidy as using a figure-8 mike, but it might be satisfactory for your needs.

Also, though I almost wince at the thought, without spending *anything* on mikes, you could try out the NT5s as mentioned above with your SM-57 as the M mike and see how that sound does for you. Perhaps with a little eq on the SM-57 to compensate for its uneven response.

Otto
 
What do you think of using a Studio Projects B3 (figure 8 configuration) instead of ribbon ShinyBox?
 
ofajen said:
produce an approximately figure-8 pattern:
Click to expand...

the side MUST be a figure 8. No approximation. The mid can be whatever..but the side has to be a fig 8
 
bairradino said:
What do you think of using a Studio Projects B3 (figure 8 configuration) instead of ribbon ShinyBox?
Click to expand...


dude, at your budget..there isnt going to be a world of difference, honestly. just get whatever you want to get.
 
bairradino said:
What do you think of using a Studio Projects B3 (figure 8 configuration) instead of ribbon ShinyBox?
Click to expand...

This will be just fine. Any figure 8 mic will do - it certainly does not have to be a ribbon mic.

You may also want to consider ofajen's suggestion and try a 3 mic method, since you already have 3 cardioids. Ray is correct in that it's not exactly mid/side, but it's a very close approximation and it's something you can do right now without waiting to buy another mic.

Nothing wrong with experimenting, after all. This stuff isn't carved in stone.
 
BigRay said:
the side MUST be a figure 8. No approximation. The mid can be whatever..but the side has to be a fig 8
Click to expand...

Don't forget, opposed cardioids mixed equally with one mixed in reversed polarity is exactly how multi-pattern mikes generate a figure-8 pattern. Admittedly, good ribbon mikes have less off-axis deviation from the ideal figure-8 pattern with frequency, but this technique does generate a figure-8 pattern.

Otto
 
ofajen said:
Don't forget, opposed cardioids mixed equally with one mixed in reversed polarity is exactly how multi-pattern mikes generate a figure-8 pattern. Admittedly, good ribbon mikes have less off-axis deviation from the ideal figure-8 pattern with frequency, but this technique does generate a figure-8 pattern.

Otto
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Well, I still think the original poster might want to try this out, since it costs no money and will give a MS sound, but a problem does occur to me:

The NT5s are front address or axial mikes. Trying to make the capsules coincident and opposed will mean not only a tiny amount of vertical misalignment, but also will place the body of each mike fully in the way of the other and almost on axis. This is not a problem with near-coincident placement of side-address mikes, though the vertical misalignment is usually bigger. This is also not a problem with crossed front address cardioids, since the bodies are at 90 degree angles, so the mid mike doesn't create a problem here, but it does present a problem for opposed, front-address cardioids.

You would probably want the mid mike in between the opposed mike capsules anyway, and that will create a little more vertical misalignment and reduce the problem of scattering off the other mike body.

Well, I still say try it. It's free, so what do you have to lose?

Otto
 
well, multipattern mics arent ideal either(in purist terms, I am no purist, just stating the info for whoever wants to hear)..only single pattern figure 8s are ideal. Same with Jecklin Disc..the original german white paper stated that only pure omnis(ie not switchable pattern) should be used for "exact" results.





ofajen said:
Don't forget, opposed cardioids mixed equally with one mixed in reversed polarity is exactly how multi-pattern mikes generate a figure-8 pattern. Admittedly, good ribbon mikes have less off-axis deviation from the ideal figure-8 pattern with frequency, but this technique does generate a figure-8 pattern.

Otto
Click to expand...
 
BigRay said:
well, multipattern mics arent ideal either(in purist terms, I am no purist, just stating the info for whoever wants to hear)..only single pattern figure 8s are ideal.
Click to expand...

There's a difference?
 
Brackish said:
There's a difference?
Click to expand...


ah yeah! most multipattern mics utilize dual diaphragms, which are highly frequency dependent....also the process of electronically switching between patterns introduces sound colorations.
 
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