looking to build my first rack

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cake1122

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hello,
this is my first post on the forum i am 16 years old and me and my friend have started a home studio. we have a peavey 16fx mixer with usb output that we record to on garage band. we our looking to build our first rack system and have a few questions. firstly what are the main things we should get for it. what are the main differences between hardware signal processers and the software ones we are usinig now. where does the rack get pluged into on the mixer. do we need one rack for each channel or can we use the same rack for all 16 channels. thanks a lot guys we really appreciate it
 
There are a couple of answers to your question.

The first is the easy one: you don't need a rack. Just about anything you would want to do using outboard rack equipment you can do with in the mixer or in the PC.

However, if you really do want some outboard equipment, then there are a couple of pieces you could set your eyes on first.

It is handy to have an outboard compressor/limiter. You use this to keep very dynamic signals under control. Noise gates are useful as well. Think also about a multi-output headphone amp. Later on you may consider rackmounted effects units (e.g. reverb) and even DI units.

Each bit of gear has its own special place in the signal path. For example, with a compressor, you use that as an insert on a particular channel. Likewise with limiters and noise gates. You can also place these between mixer out and PC in (normally via main out inserts).

Effects units can be used as inserts, but more often they are add ons, i.e. you can send a part of any channel's signal to them, then mix the output of them with the main signal.

A headphone amp is inserted into your monitoring path, which can come from the output of the mixer, or from the output of the PC.

In the end, it is a good idea to start simply, working with what you have and becoming proficient with that. As you become more familiar with your gear, it will almost tell you what you need to get next . . . you will say things like 'I wish we had a thingy to do this (whatever)'.
 
Buying gear for the sake of buying gear cause you're supposed to have it or 'want to start a rack' is a great way to start down the road of wasting money.

I suggest you give us some goals you have and answer some questions... like what do you want to do, make demos or pro CD's? Are you happy with what you've recorded so far, and if not, what are you unhappy with? How much money do you have, and how flexible are you in that area? How many channels do you use at once? Do you only own your mixer and a computer or do you have other equipment as well? How much research have you done so far?

Just give us a better picture of where you're at, and where you want to end up...

jacob
 
thanks for the fast reply.

right now we have a peavey 16fx usb mixer that has a usb output that we run into a mac power book with a 160 gig external hard drive. we want to purchase a firewire interface so that we can have seperate tracks on the computer. our quality is pretty low right now because we have a set of nady drum mcs and some xml vocal and instrument mics. we want to open our own profesional studio one day which we think is very possible because we are only 16 so we have alot of years to build on. our quality right now is pretty low it lacks alot of editing and mastering skill that we have not yet learned. we have been told by a few people that outboard gear will give us a better sound and more control over the effects and we are buying a rack mount firewire interface anyway so we thought we should go ahead and get some outboard gear with it
 
seriously dont bother until you know you need it, get a good firewire interface (like a firepod/box - the 8 mic preamp one) and then spend your money on good mics
 
ok well the the effects on garage band like dont really make to much of a difference on the sound like the compresser is pretty bad and u can only use to effect at a time on one channel so should i get a new software.
 
I've never used garage band but I understand it's pretty lightweight and isn't really a serious bit of DAW software. I'd recommend Cubase SE as a good step up to 'proper recording' software. It's a lighter edition of Cubase SX but for someone just starting out it's perfect, SX would probably be too complex. I think SE is around $100 over there.

And I agree with all the others about hardware, get a multi input interface and then learn to use what you have, there are plenty of good free plug-ins you can use with cubase and further down the line you will know if you need something in hardware.

Other hugely important factrors in acheiving good recordings are the acoustic spaces in which you track and mix and your monitoring setup. In fact I'd say they are the most inportant things (aside from the quality of the source).
 
yep, and if you get a nice DI, like the Firepod/box you get LE with it for free!
 
Don't buy stuff for no reason. You don't need to have a rack of gear because someone says you do. You only need the gear when you understand what you want to do, how to do it, and what piece of gear will help you get there.
If you don't even know how to plug it in it's a safe bet you aren't ready to use it yet.

I say get some decent software, and learn how to work with some plug-ins.
You can get a pretty nice collection using nothing but free ones off the internet.

If you're going to spend money on hardware, buy nice mics and pre-amps. ;)

By the way, the only outboard gear I use are pre-amps. I do all my compression, EQ, and effects in the box.
My personal belief is that if you can't afford some pretty nice hardware, you might as well use software anyway.
 
Kevin DeSchwazi said:
I've never used garage band but I understand it's pretty lightweight and isn't really a serious bit of DAW software. I'd recommend Cubase SE as a good step up to 'proper recording' software. It's a lighter edition of Cubase SX but for someone just starting out it's perfect, SX would probably be too complex. I think SE is around $100 over there.
Click to expand...

Actually I thought the same thing, but GarageBand is surprisingly good. Plus it's got some hooks into Logic, for when you get farther down the recording road and want to really invest in some serious recording software. I will however second the recommendation for Cubase SE, simply because it's easy to set up and use.
 
tnjazz said:
Actually I thought the same thing, but GarageBand is surprisingly good. Plus it's got some hooks into Logic, for when you get farther down the recording road and want to really invest in some serious recording software. I will however second the recommendation for Cubase SE, simply because it's easy to set up and use.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, you've used it I haven't, can't argue with that.
 
do u know how i can get logic of the internet for free i downloaded it off limewire but its asking for some usb key??
 
what you're talking about is illegal and we don't support that here. Buy the software...it's worth it and you don't get into any problems...

You still haven't talked about budget, so I'm going to assume that you don't have too many money issues. Here's an example of a good firewire setup that you can use... first some theory - every recording system uses a 'signal chain'. This is the path that sound travels along to be recorded, monitored, and mixed down. I'm going to talk about what an example signal chain for you looks like, and also talk about why each element is essential. Your signal chain should look like this: Mic -> Preamp -> interface -> Computer and recording software -> interface (same one) -> monitors

For mics, you can get away with only having 5 mics, but most of us end up getting more for variety. THe five mics you need are, 1) a large dynamic like the AKG D112 - used for kick drums and bass cabs, 2) a small dynamic for snares and guitar cabs like the SM57, 3) a large condensor used for vocals and room like the SP C1, 4/5) a pair of small condensors used for overheads like the MXL 603's. With those five mics you can record drums, guitars, bass and vocals easily with decent results.

A preamp is neccesary. You've got some that are seperate, boxes that are just preamps like the DMP3, or some that are built in to other things like a mixer or an interface. People here have been recommending getting a set of pres built into an interface, and this is generally a pretty good way to start. The Firepod will give you great resuls and it has pres built into it. Basically, you want to start with a pretty reliable set of "workhorse" pres - these are pres that you will be able to rely on even if you start to add more specialized pres. Having four to eight workhorse pres is a great thing to have, and I suggest some boxes like the M Audio Octane, a few of the DMP3's, Focusrite Octopre or the Presonus Digimax.

An Interface turns your analog signal into a digital signal your computer will recognize. Firewire is the newer way of doing this, and I would suggest it for you along with the guys above. The Firepod is one way of doing it, but I like M Audio's gear personally. I would suggest picking something like the M Audio 1814, it gives you 18 channels in and 14 out. This would be great for you because it's expandable - you get 8 workhorse pres now (like the Octane) and add more as you want/need them on a 1 or 2 channel basis.

For software, I use Cubase SX, and I haven't used to many others that i like. I suggest you look at Cubase, and also look at Pro Tools M Powered - if you get into the M Audio gear it allows you to use a M Audio version of Pro Tools - Pro tools is generally what pros use, and so if you have a chance to use a version of pro tools for 250 bucks it's a good idea.

Monitors are CRUCIAL when you're setting up a home studio. Buy the best you can afford, and DO NOT skimp here to get that extra mic or pre that you don't need. Good monitors pay for themselves when you're mixing! I'm a big fan of Event monitors, and I'm also a fan of the Mackie HR series of monitors.

After all that you're going to need to think about cables, sound treatment/ control, storage, mic stands and all sorts of other little items that eat up your money when setting up a studio. I suggest you take your time, set a budget, and then do a lot of research before you just go start buying things. Once you've done your research come and ask questions.

Hope I helped,

Jacob
 
Jacob, that's one of the best, down-to-earth, how-to-get-started posts I've seen. :)
 
ok im looking at the presonus fire studio firewire interface. if i get that could i run my peavy mixer into it can i hook it up through each channels inserts because it doesent have direct outs. it has 4 sub outs so i know i could do it through there but it would be nice to have each channel on a track. if i wanted to buy say a tube pre amp i would only need one mainly for vocals write?
 
Fuck outboard gear for the moment. Its completely useless to you. as everyone else said get a good fitrwire interface like the presonus firepod, you wont need to buy preamps with that as it has good ones in.
Buy some better mics!!!! I dont know what your using now but if your getting shit results with the mics your using seriously consider getting some better ones.
 
cake1122 said:
ok im looking at the presonus fire studio firewire interface. if i get that could i run my peavy mixer into it can i hook it up through each channels inserts because it doesent have direct outs. it has 4 sub outs so i know i could do it through there but it would be nice to have each channel on a track. if i wanted to buy say a tube pre amp i would only need one mainly for vocals write?
Click to expand...
Are you looking at the firepod or firebox?To get 8 individual channels into the comp you would need the firepod, you'd then be able to take the mixer out of the chain altogether.

The firepod has mic preamps so you could just plug your mics straight into that.

if you wanted to add one nice preamp for vocals or whatever this would just go through one of the line inputs on the firepod. You'd have to spend quite a bit of money to get a pre that was significantly better than the pres in the firepod though.
 
ok so if i get a firepod and run all my mics. through the pres. is there like a mixer type thing that will control the software mixer but with real nobs and faders ect.?
 
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