Looking for some advice for a PC setup

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kontraband

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I record vocals (mostly hip-hop) and have been using an old Samson USB studio condenser mic and Cakewalk Sonar X2. It's worked ok, but obviously the sound quality isn't great, and it doesn't properly support Win7.

PC details:
I have a 64-bit Win7 PC with a core 2 duo @ 2.93GHz with 8GB of RAM.

I'm looking to upgrade my setup and have around $1200 CAD to do so. I'm really only interested in one single mono channel for recording vocals (preferably with decent sound prior to adding software filters, etc). I'm wondering if anyone here has any advice on what I will really require for good sound. For example, I'm looking for suggestions for the following:

- Mic (currently looking at Audio Technica AT4040)
- Compressor/EQ/preamp (currently looking at PreSonus Eureka since the price is reasonable and it is single channel)
- Audio interface to the pc (not sure about this at all yet)

I'm new to all of this and tried reading through the forums, but I've just been getting more and more confused :facepalm:

I'm assuming my choices thus far are probably way off from what will be suggested, so I'm definitely open to any suggestions. Thanks!
 
kontraband said:
I record vocals (mostly hip-hop) and have been using an old Samson USB studio condenser mic and Cakewalk Sonar X2. It's worked ok, but obviously the sound quality isn't great, and it doesn't properly support Win7.

PC details:
I have a 64-bit Win7 PC with a core 2 duo @ 2.93GHz with 8GB of RAM.

I'm looking to upgrade my setup and have around $1200 CAD to do so. I'm really only interested in one single mono channel for recording vocals (preferably with decent sound prior to adding software filters, etc). I'm wondering if anyone here has any advice on what I will really require for good sound. For example, I'm looking for suggestions for the following:

- Mic (currently looking at Audio Technica AT4040)
- Compressor/EQ/preamp (currently looking at PreSonus Eureka since the price is reasonable and it is single channel)
- Audio interface to the pc (not sure about this at all yet)

I'm new to all of this and tried reading through the forums, but I've just been getting more and more confused :facepalm:

I'm assuming my choices thus far are probably way off from what will be suggested, so I'm definitely open to any suggestions. Thanks!
Click to expand...

So much of what is recommended on this board is closer to religion then science simply because nobody has the same set of ears. IMO the Eureka is overkill... in all probability you'll never hear a difference between it and a cheaper piece of gear unless your mic and/or source are especially demanding. I'd look at a Focusrite 2i2 which enjoys favorable reviews, a vocal effects processor, a pair of monitors, and a Shure SM7B mic.
 
An interface with preamps like the Focusrite Wheelie suggests above is a solid choice and will give you quality results in a relatively simple setup. Mic choice comes down to preference and your environment. If you can, it's best to try a few to find one that suits your voice and room. The SM7B suggested above is a popular mic, the AT4040 you suggest is likely a good mic for certain applications (I haven't used this one - I've used an AT4033a, which I wasn't keen on), I know of a few people on here who use the cheap AT2020 to great effect (the XLR version; not the USB!) - I personally use the Rode NT1A for vocals, which has mixed opinions on here, but I like for me.

As for vocal processing, would doing all this in Sonar not suit your requirements? When you say you're new to this, do you mean recording/performing, or just to using a computer as a recording studio?

I would start simple (Sonar comes with all the effects plugins you need, which can be upgraded with better free and paid for plugins as required), then add hardware if you find you need it. Unless, of course, you are experienced enough to know you need these things.
 
All, thanks so much for the replies. I will take some time today and look into what has been suggested and possibly respond back as I'm likely to have a few questions.

To answer the questions that have been asked, with the current setup we are using Sonar and have bought the Ozone effects plugin. I really like it for what we have used it for and we have been able to get decent sound, but it takes a lot of work to do so. I believe this is mostly to do with the old/cheap mic which also has latency when recording (forcing realignment of everything which is recorded -- very tedious). We have some extra money to invest at the moment and just assumed that hardware would allow us to grow as needed and give us more options as well as being less taxing on the PC.

We have been recording with the current setup for about a year now and using Sonar and Ozone effects plugin for around that long as well. What we are really new to is setting up a hardware setup and we are trying to get familiar with all terminology that goes along with it. The mic we currently use has a pre-amp (although pretty awful) built in, so it plugs directly into USB and nothing else was really required besides software.

Again, thanks for all the advice and any other pointers or advice will certainly be helpful.
 
I've skimmed through the PDF file for the TC-Helicon VoiceLive Touch which was linked and I want to just be sure I'm understanding the suggestions from wheelema:

Mic - Shure SM7B
Pre-amp/Vocal Effects/USB connection to PC - TC-Helicon VoiceLive Touch
I currently use my Audio Technica ATH-M50 headphones for recording and playback while editing and think these will suffice for this.

Would this be all I would need (besides Sonar) or am I missing a part of the chain? If so, I will place the order shortly and report back with results! Thanks again!!
 
kontraband said:
Or would I need the Focusrite 2i2 to use as a preamp, which would then go through the VoiceLive? :confused:
Click to expand...

Any contemporary vocal recording chain consists of mic - preamp - analog to digital converter (A/D) - computer - digital to analog converter (D/A) - speaker. The VoiceLive Touch (VLT) definitely provides a preamp, and apparently a A/D converter. I'm less clear on the D/A part. The Scarlet 2i2 (like most dedicated computer interfaces) provides a preamp, A/D, and D/A.

I've ordered a VLT but it's not here yet so I can't test out what the manual says. Personally I'll be running it into my USBPre 2 (which serves the same function as the Focusrite 2i2). I suppose you could always pop for the Focusrite if you needed to or... if the VLT was more pizzazz then you needed... skip it entirely.

Headphones aren't the best for monitoring but I suppose one has to economize where one can.
 
I think we will just get the Focusrite 2i2 as well as the VoiceLive Touch to just be safe.

wheelema said:
Headphones aren't the best for monitoring but I suppose one has to economize where one can.
Click to expand...

I see you have a pair of Yamaha HS80M monitors. These appear to be about $500 for a pair. I don't think we can spend quite that much. Do you have any suggestions on monitors that would be good for our purposes, but a bit cheaper?
 
I have no idea how far CAD$1200 stretches, but this is where I would spend it (and what I would do if I had my time again): -

- Focusrite 2i2 (or similar interface - there are many available, the Focusrite is a great choice)
- Entry level XLR mic, like the AT2020 or NT1A, with stand, shockmount and pop shield
- A pair of monitors (I currently use Alesis M1 MKII, which are great for their price range, but are not professional quality monitors by any means); or find a half decent hifi amp and speakers
- Buy some mineral wool and build some acoustic treatment for your room (see the Studio Building and Display forum for lots on this).

Then, if you have anything left, you might consider hardware effects or additional plugins, but you will get greater mileage learning to use the builtin effects in Sonar, IMHO. Isn't Ozone a mastering tool? You need to get your recording and mixing up before you start worrying about mastering.
 
Thanks for the input! CAD $1200 is about equal to USD. We do have a stand, shockmount and pop shield. We also have a small booth with acoustic treatment which we have been using.

Here is what I'm now considering:

- Shure SM7B (I don't mind spending a bit more on this to make sure I'm satisfied and I've read nothing but good things about this mic)
- VoiceLive Touch
- Focusrite 2i2
- Alesis M1 MkII (pair)

Am I missing any required hardware? That is the part I'm most confused on now. I've attached an image showing what I think this setup looks like physically, but I want to make sure I'm not confused on something. Thanks again!

setup.webp
 
I had a pair of Alesis M1 monitors. Good sound, poor longevity. Get a extended/SquareTrade warranty if you buy 'em.

Otherwise I think you'e going to sound f'ing awesome.
 
Awesome!! I have been reading reviews on those monitors and have heard the sound is great but I've also heard about some issues with capacitors and power supplies within. I'll be sure to get the extended warranty. I'm going to be making this order tomorrow and will report back once I receive these and test everything out.

Thanks so much everyone!
 
+1 to that m1 comment.

I can't say they have bad rep; I don't have enough experience of them, but my pair shat shortly after I sold them.

I'm inclined to suggest skipping the vocal processor unless there's something I missed.
Anything done to the signal before digital conversion cannot be undone.
Anything done after it (in software) can.
 
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If you have the focusrite, i recommend not using the live touch thing. You want to capture your audio raw then make changes once you get all your audio tracks recorded. If you record with the voicetouch, the track may not fit well with the other tracks and you will have to re-record it.

I also suggest getting the next step up in focusrite line of products. The 2i2 does not have a control to balance between playback and recorded channels. If it will be your only interface, you might find yourself frustrated with the lack of this one little control.
 
Ok, so it seems to be a consensus to lose the VoiceTouch from the configuration. It makes sense that if you alter the sound prior to recording that you cannot make changes and that changes made in software are reversible.

Would the VoiceTouch more often be used for live performances or something? We've just had issues applying effects and creating good sound (most of this was likely due to our poor mic, etc though) and just assumed that doing some of this in hardware might be easier and more "clean" (esp things like compression).
 
Chili said:
I also suggest getting the next step up in focusrite line of products. The 2i2 does not have a control to balance between playback and recorded channels. If it will be your only interface, you might find yourself frustrated with the lack of this one little control.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to Focusrite Scarlett 8i6?
 
Steenamaroo said:
+1 to that m1 comment.

I can't say the have bad rep; I don't have enough experience of them, but my pair shat shortly after I sold them.

I'm inclined to suggest skipping the vocal processor unless there's something I missed.
Anything done to the signal before digital conversion cannot be undone.
Anything done after it (in software) can.
Click to expand...

According to the manual you can run the signal in dry. It's not an issue for me, but then I've been sleeping on this for months.
 
kontraband said:
Ok, so it seems to be a consensus to lose the VoiceTouch from the configuration. It makes sense that if you altTher the sound prior to recording that you cannot make changes and that changes made in software are reversible.

Would the VoiceTouch more often be used for live performances or something? We've just had issues applying effects and creating good sound (most of this was likely due to our poor mic, etc though) and just assumed that doing some of this in hardware might be easier and more "clean" (esp things like compression).
Click to expand...

The VLT is marketed primarily for live performances, but marketing is not (to paraphrase somebody) destiny. Note-

Here are a few common methods of using VoiceLive Touch with a USB connected computer and an audio application (DAW):

1. Capturing a full mix of your performance
2. Processing vocals from your DAW
3. Recording dry vocal and guitar tracks

We assume you are familiar with configuring your audio application for input and output and that you understand connection of VoiceLive Touch’s inputs and outputs.

Method 1 - Capturing a full mix of your performance:

Set VoiceLive Touch’s Setup menu parameters as such:
6 USB: STEREO

Connect your mic, headphones and optionally an instrument to VoiceLive Touch and pick a preset you like.VoiceLive Touch will send the fully processed sound to your DAW and you’ll be able to monitor through your headphones. Set the input and output devices of your destination DAW track to VoiceLive Touch. If you are singing along with pre-recorded tracks, set those track outputs Touch as well so you can monitor through your headphones.

Method #2 - Processing vocals from your DAW:

You’ll need a fully dry mono vocal track and optionally, a dry instrument track (guitar or keyboard) or midi performance track if you plan to use harmony.To use VoiceLive Touch as an effects insert, set the Setup menu parameter as such:
6 USB: INSERT

Configure an aux send in your DAW to send the vocal track via USB to VoiceLive Touch’s left input and the guitar track to the right. To record a 100% wet track that will be mixed with the dry lead vocal track, set the LEAD MUTE parameter to ON in the Advanced Setup menu. If a guitar track is used to control harmony, the GUITAR MUTE parameter in the same menu should also be set to ON. To record an output track that will replace the original vocal track such as when you use HardTune or Transducer presets, ensure that LEAD MUTE is set OFF. You can monitor through VoiceLive’s headphone or main outputs as you record but when playing back using VoiceLive Touch as the output audio
device, set 6 USB: INSERT to USB: STEREO.

Method #3 - Recording dry vocal and guitar tracks:

This method allows you to hear a fully produced sound while recording but send only your dry guitar and dry voice to the DAW. Set the Setup menu parameters as such:
6 USB:TRACK

Connect your mic and a guitar to VoiceLive Touch and your headphones to the headphone out. Even though you’ll hear fully processed vocals and
guitar (with Guitar FX) in the headphones, the output feeding your DAW will be separate dry vocal and guitar that you can process later
with Method #2.
Click to expand...

It's not that Steen and Chili are wrong, it's just a different school of thought (remember what I said about religion). For me the trade-offs (such as they may be) are worth it, for others they may not be. It's a crap shoot. I've been researching this shit for a while, but that does not mean it's the right solution for you. Even I wasn't aware of the USB functionality until a day or so ago.
 
Ok, that makes sense. I think I may pick up the VLT as well just so that I have more options and am able to decide for myself what works best for my setup.
 
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