Looking For Advice On Using A Noise Gate

[chuckduffy]

This is all cart before the horse stuff IMO. If the gain is staged properly there won't be hiss, you shouldn't need a noise gate, and unless you are recording in a house full of kids or near an airport you shouldn't need any kind of iso booth.

 

[Bobbsy]

I think this is a mix of all sorts of problems:

-a mic with low sensitivity and output (and possibly a funny impedance since it can work with a jack) and probably a high noise floor
-a mixer with noisy-ish pre-amps cranked up to compensate for the mic


Frankly, you would have been better off putting the money for the Behri and the cheap mic into a decent mic into an inexpensive AI.

Take the advice that condenser mics pick up more background noise with a pinch of salt. The reason for this is that dynamic mics have low sensitivity and output, causing problems like you have. I'd rather have a decent condenser and a duvet on the wall behind me than struggle with a dynamic.

Can you post a brief sample of your recordings and I'll see what I can do with noise reduction.

 

[RAMI]

This is all cart before the horse stuff IMO. If the gain is staged properly there won't be hiss, you shouldn't need a noise gate, and unless you are recording in a house full of kids or near an airport you shouldn't need any kind of iso booth.

Very true. Besides the fact that even the most sound-proof "booth" will do absolutely nothing to get rid of hiss. Outside noise, maybe. But the source of hiss is internal, either from the mic or somewhere in the circuitry. A "booth" will not affect that in any way.

 

[Justsomeguy]

I'd rather have a decent condenser and a duvet on the wall behind me than struggle with a dynamic.

I agree with this totally and, for possibly the first time (and maybe only time) in my life, i'd ask may this be the case where a USB condenser would yield better results As bobbsy said, dynamic mics are less sensitive, the beri preamps are fairly noisy at high gains, and the extra gain stage will probably also add extra unwanted noise. Even with upgrading to a condenser mic, the other two problems would still exist, and unless the OP really wants to branch out into recording instruments/multiple inputs, the cost of an AI and a reasonable condenser would probably be more than a reasonable USB condenser.

Ok, i feel slightly dirty now

 

[Doctor Varney]

This is all cart before the horse stuff IMO.... and unless you are recording in a house full of kids or near an airport you shouldn't need any kind of iso booth.

Very true. Besides the fact that even the most sound-proof "booth" will do absolutely nothing to get rid of hiss. Outside noise, maybe. But the source of hiss is internal, either from the mic or somewhere in the circuitry. A "booth" will not affect that in any way.

Yeah... erm... that was already quite obvious to me, regardless of any 'booth'. Something I didn't quite explain... Has anyone seen Fu Manchu? Ah, nevermind.

Anyway, yeah... This is why I'm concentrating on the circuitry at this point.

But seriously now, as the business develops to where I see it going, I will need the booth. We don't really need to discuss those reasons in depth just yet.

 

[Doctor Varney]

-a mic with low sensitivity and output (and possibly a funny impedance since it can work with a jack)

It doesn't work at all with the jack. I use the XLR, so that the gain on the Behringer is effective.

Frankly, you would have been better off putting the money for the Behri and the cheap mic into a decent mic into an inexpensive AI.

I realise that now but when I got the mixer, I wasn't planning on doing what I do now. At least, didn't know the things I know now.

What do you mean by 'AI'? Audio interface? I think the E=MU card is fine. I think I possibly need a better quality pre-amp. I'll see when I get the condenser mic.

Take the advice that condenser mics pick up more background noise with a pinch of salt. The reason for this is that dynamic mics have low sensitivity and output, causing problems like you have. I'd rather have a decent condenser and a duvet on the wall behind me than struggle with a dynamic.

Noted... thanks!

I know my equipment is below par as it stands. I was just hoping to wangle a better result with what I have now. Which I have. Thanks to the advice you guys have given me... Re: settings on the mixer. It's not perfect but it's a whole lot more presentable than it was when I came in here. So the advice was very effective - and I thank you for that.

 

[Doctor Varney]

I agree with this totally and, for possibly the first time (and maybe only time) in my life, i'd ask may this be the case where a USB condenser would yield better results As bobbsy said, dynamic mics are less sensitive, the beri preamps are fairly noisy at high gains, and the extra gain stage will probably also add extra unwanted noise. Even with upgrading to a condenser mic, the other two problems would still exist, and unless the OP really wants to branch out into recording instruments/multiple inputs, the cost of an AI and a reasonable condenser would probably be more than a reasonable USB condenser.

I like this. I'm looking at USB condensers. I'm noticing they seem popular amongst podcasters and audio book narrators...

 

[Bobbsy]

KAM KDM400 Dynamic Microphone kit. Came with both XLR and jack lead. I use the XLR.

You may not be using the jack lead (your mixer will expect line level, not mic level on the jack inputs) but mics designed to work with jacks are also usually designed to work into high impedance devices--and using it in to a low impedance XLR socket is another source of noise. Obviously, without measuring things, this is only a guess but it's another consideration.

E-MU cards aren't bad, despite being made (and now abandoned) by Creative. However, if you're using your mixer you don't need another pre amp at all. Is there a mic in on the E-MU model you have (some have mic ins and some don't)? If so, I'd experiment with going straight into the E-MU and leave the Behringer out entirely. Worth a try.

 

[chuckduffy]

OK - now that you have revealed a little more about the equipment.... As Bobbsy notes, if there is a mic input on the emu use it. If there isn't make sure that the mixer output matches the emu input (-10/+4), and that you aren't applying any gain with the emu. Emu cards are fine once you get them tweaked for your system....

Two of the most popular microphones for professional voiceover and narration are dynamics. Although the USB mics may be popular with podcaster and audio book narrators it is probably because some other podcaster recommended it to them. In the long run separate interface and microphone is a *much* better bet.

I'm genuinely trying to be helpful. Do not spend more money until you sort this out. I have a $50 dynamic and a $100 2 channel focusrite USB interface and it sounds just fine. ...

 

[Doctor Varney]

I'm genuinely trying to be helpful. Do not spend more money until you sort this out. I have a $50 dynamic and a $100 2 channel focusrite USB interface and it sounds just fine. ...

I know you are, mate and I'm genuinely thankful to you and others for taking the time to help me out.

I'm going to try what you and Bobbsy have suggested. As said: "Gotta be worth a try".

I'm not seeing any mic input on the E=MU software. Don't think there is a physical mic input on the card, either. So how would I set this up? What about using the jack socket into the mixer, leaving off the gain and using a pre-amp plugin? Worth a try, what do you think?

Cheers again

V

 

[moresound]

I agree with this totally and, for possibly the first time (and maybe only time) in my life, i'd ask may this be the case where a USB condenser would yield better results

Ok, i feel slightly dirty now

I can feel your pain!

 

[moresound]

Dr. V .....

It could be as simple as turning down and speaking a lot louder.

 

[Bobbsy]

I know you are, mate and I'm genuinely thankful to you and others for taking the time to help me out.

I'm going to try what you and Bobbsy have suggested. As said: "Gotta be worth a try".

I'm not seeing any mic input on the E=MU software. Don't think there is a physical mic input on the card, either. So how would I set this up? What about using the jack socket into the mixer, leaving off the gain and using a pre-amp plugin? Worth a try, what do you think?

Cheers again

V

It depends on what model of E-MU interface you have. Some have mic inputs and some don't. If not, there's nothing you can set up.

Frankly, I wouldn't invest in an external pre amp for a $15 microphone. It's time to start from scratch with a better mic and a better external audio interface.

 

[Doctor Varney]

Dr. V .....

It could be as simple as turning down and speaking a lot louder.

Negative, I'm afraid. Can't speak any louder than I already do. Not even with the huge amount of stage experience and training. One nice thing about audio books is the chance to be subtle and explore a range of volume.

 

[Doctor Varney]

It depends on what model of E-MU interface you have. Some have mic inputs and some don't. If not, there's nothing you can set up.

0404. *Nods* Yep, No mic input to be found.

Frankly, I wouldn't invest in an external pre amp for a $15 microphone. It's time to start from scratch with a better mic and a better external audio interface.

Wasn't thinking of buying a pre-amp. I think a better mic...

But the good news is, as I said, I experimented with some of the advice I got earlier and I was much more happy with the results. I've put some bits of tape on the mixer to remember the slider marks... tweaked it a bit more, played around with stuff... I'm now a lot more confident of a result that is going to work for what I'm trying to achieve at this stage. It can only get better.

The gain still has to be up full though. I'm simply not pushing the slider all the way. 'Unity' as you would say.

Cheers

V

 

[Bobbsy]

On most mixers (and, looking at a picture of yours, it seems to be the same) the unity/0 position isn't all the way up. It's a bit more than 3/4 of the way, with 10dB extra gain.

I'd set up your mixer by setting the fader (and the master fader too, btw) at the zero position then adjusting the gain trim pot to give you the right level--hopefully this won't be cranked all the way up.

If you're turning the fader down and the gain trim up to compensate, that's another place that could be adding noise.

 

[Chili]

I think how he described it, he's got it right. He does have the gain all the way up and I'm thinking that's probably correct for his mic. Then he has the fader at unity and adjusting overall ouput level to the interface with the mains fader.

I have the 0404 also, no mic pre's, just L/R line level In's and Outs.

 

[Bobbsy]

Yeah. I wasn't clear from his last post whether he had the channel fader at unity or was running at a lower level with the mic pre gain trim all the way up to compensate.

Hmmm, it occurs that, in this case, it might be worth an experiment with not doing the gain staging properly. The Behri mic pres get noisy when you push them and the noise isn't linear--it comes on suddenly above a certain amount of gain. (At least that's how it is on the ADA8000s that I own.) If his mixer is the same, it might be worth pushing the channel and master faders all the way up and turning down the mic pre to compensate. This MIGHT reduce the noise a bit. It's only a 30 second experiment to see if it helps--worth a try.

 

[Doctor Varney]

The Behri mic pres get noisy when you push them and the noise isn't linear--it comes on suddenly above a certain amount of gain.

Yes, that's right! It's kinda... twitchy. Okay, I said 'full on' but listening back I've still got a bit of hiss. By turning back the gain knob a nat's whisker from the top, it attenutates the hiss. Full green on the meter and no yellow. I've listened in on the headphone channel and with a bit of careful adjustment, I set it so that the hiss just stops. Then I did a naughty and pulled back the midrange a little (I understand it's best to record dry, with no EQ) but I did, and it helped a little.

Now I've done something even naughtier... popped on a compressor VST before the recorder to knock down some of the heavier spikes (I can do this with my voice when I'm in the right mood - but what the hell.) If nothing else, I've learned a bit more about compression, being able to see the result.

If I have the gain any less, I get noise, across all sorts of bands, when I normalise the waveform after recording. With the gain at this (crucial) level, just the faintest, itty bitty hiss in a high register is detectable but is more noticable at higher volume output.

So the gain is up there... and I have the channel slider on the mixer lower. Just over half, I think. I haven't touched the main mix sliders 'cos they don't output anything to the E=MU. They go straight to my listening amp. Alt 3/4 goes to the E=MU and 3/ is up to the zero notch on the mixer, with the input channel panned hard left (for mono). I just left it up there and adjusted down the input channel slider instead.

If his mixer is the same, it might be worth pushing the channel and master faders all the way up and turning down the mic pre to compensate. This MIGHT reduce the noise a bit. It's only a 30 second experiment to see if it helps--worth a try.

That's just how things were, when I discovered the noise. I couldn't get a big enough signal going in. When I turn the gain knob down a little, the level doesn't go down a little but seems to jump right down. And when I did normalise after recording at a lower level, I got some noise.

I hope this makes sense.

Yeah, I'm beginning to think this mixer's crap.

 

[Bobbsy]

Not crap...just "value for money". Trouble is, the money's about a quarter what you'd spend for a decent mixer!

The other problem is that noise problems are cumulative. If you have a slightly noisy mic and a slightly noisy mixer, the noise adds up. A little bit of noise from the mic doesn't hide below the noise in the Behri mic pre amps--instead they work together to be really annoying!