looking for a 'happy medium' mix

[maryslittlesecret]

Howdy, all. I've been A/Bing my latest mix and have noticed that a mix sounds good on 'average' speakers (my monitors, decent phones, my car stereo) sounds muddy and muffled on 'cheap' speakers (low end CPU speakers & phones).

Of course, pro mixes still sound decent on these cheap speakers -- so I'm wondering if you guys can give me any tips on finding a 'happy medium' mix? Are there freqs I should compress/notch out to keep things sounding clean on bargain speakers? Thanks in advance.


J

 

[kubeek]

Maybe you should try listening to the cheap speakers and try to find out what makes the sound muddy and muffled. Maybe it can be too much bass or low-mids, but that is hard to tell without listening to the mix.

Also you can try how does your mix perform when played with low volume on your monitors, and/or with some background noise. You should probably hear the mids most, then the rest.

 

[TerraMortim]

give a psychic a $100 tip, and you'll see a very happy medium.

nyuk nyuk nyuk

 

[TexRoadkill]

You probably either have too much going on the low mid 400hz-800hz range or not enough going on in the 2k-6k range. If there is too much low end volume then the tracks won't get loud enough on the cheap system and the high end won't come through. If you are relying on a lot of high end air around 12K and above for your top end then it will get lost on systems with crappy tweeters. The upper mids around 3k add a lot of edge and perceived high end and it's one of the most critical areas of a mix.

 

[mixsit]

A variation on the above themes- Listen (and watch*) carefully to the very low all the way through the 500Hz range on the cheapies with your mix and commercial mixes.
*part two - Know that 'very deep' may be effective on good speakers but the instrument's voice may be lost in a lot of wasted cone movement on small speakers if they do not also speak' somewhere in the upper bass range.

 

[Daisy]

What you're experiencing is a pretty classic / typical symptom of what happens in a less than ideal monitoring setup.

Your stuff isn't translating.

If you want to attack the problem at it's source, then you need to look for ways to improve your monitoring. 99 times out of a hundred, it's an accoustics issue -- the response of your room is likely throwing things off.

But it can also be a problem if your monitors are just crap Or if you're not sufficiently "learning" them (which comes from repeated listening to reference material). You're probably also not checking mixes enough on smaller speakers (in which case, you might try setting up an extra set of smaller monitors or computer speakers to check with frequently).

 

[maryslittlesecret]

Thanks for all the replies. It's definitely a monitoring issue to a degree -- I have to do a lot on mixing on headphones because of my kids.

Listening to my latest mix, I think it's more a low-mid problem (though the highs are lacking as well). Is there something in specific I should rolloff/notch out in the 400-800Hz range -- bass, guitar, etc.?

 

[Daisy]

Listening to my latest mix, I think it's more a low-mid problem (though the highs are lacking as well). Is there something in specific I should rolloff/notch out in the 400-800Hz range -- bass, guitar, etc.?

No.

You basically came out and stated what your problem is, and now you're looking for some sort of quick fix. And there ain't one. Until you get the monitoring situation sorted out ... it's just going to be a continuous game of whack-a-mole. You can try corrective EQ, which might help with the low-mid thing ... but other problems are bound to creep up in it's place.

You shouldn't be mixing with headphones. You should definitely be "checking" with them - but not mixing. Right now, given your situation ... it's highly unlikely that you will ever find a "happy medium." Not trying to give you too much of a hard time, but it would be a really strange and highly unusual phenomenon if you did.

 

[mixsit]

... I think it's more a low-mid problem (though the highs are lacking as well). Is there something in specific I should rolloff/notch out in the 400-800Hz range -- bass, guitar, etc.?

Sure but sometimes things that you would not expect, nor need to be thick' within the mix can pile up. Close micing tends to keep our room in check but pushes things in that direction too (vs getting back a bit to thin down size').
The up side to some corective carving is it might open up some nice highs that were hiding there all along.

 

[maryslittlesecret]

Thanks for the input.

Daisy: I understand and agree with (most of) what you're saying, but short of quitting my job so I can be home during the day or depriving my kids of sleep (or maybe selling them to the gypsies ), I'm a bit stuck. I use my monitors when I can, usually on the weekends, but if I want to get anythying done in the meantime, I'm stuck on phones. So I'm not looking for a "quick fix" -- just some helpful suggestions so I can make the best of what I've got.

Mixsit: I agree. I've recently learned how rolling off bass freqs on the guitar give a bigger sound, a lot of bass guitar is in low mids instead of sub lows, etc.

That said, I kicked on an FFT and did some master bus EQ quickly and it seems like my mud is in the 75Hz-350Hz range -- where I'm sure the bass and guitar are fighting for space. Any suggestions on carving out space in that area? That seems like vaild territory for both bass guitar and (heavy) guitars -- which one should make room for the other?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

That said, I kicked on an FFT and did some master bus EQ quickly and it seems like my mud is in the 75Hz-350Hz range

75-350 is a *huge* range; it's called "bass" . Seriously, though, there enough room in that range for a dozen different things to be happening.

I gotta fall back on the old standby trick here: run a parametric sweep on every one of your tracks (except maybe vocals, at least for now), especially your bass, kick and git. If you're unfamiliar with that procedure, just run a search here on "parametric sweep", It's been explaind a hundred times. Clean the ear wax out of every one of your tracks on the track level with that.

As far as the git and the bass competing, if the competition is that fierce between the two, I'd have to question the song arrangement first. Pick the role for each instrument.

Then do the same spectrally. Do kind of a reverse parametric sweep; i.d. the energy band where each instruemnt sounds the sweetest and/or fills it's role in the arrangement the best. Where the bass shines the most, use a gentle cut of a few dB on the git to give the bass some room to breathe. Then decide whic one you want to have more "click" on the high end, one or the other. Give that one a gentle boost in th upper mids wherever the click sounds the best.

And then make sure they have their own pan space. Keep the bass somewhere near the middle, and the git at least 15° away from that.

G.

 

[maryslittlesecret]

75-350 is a *huge* range; it's called "bass" .

Touche

I'll (re)familiarize myself with a paramatic sweep and give that a shot. Thanks for the tips!

 

[mixsit]

-- where I'm sure the bass and guitar are fighting for space. Any suggestions on carving out space in that area? That seems like vaild territory for both bass guitar and (heavy) guitars -- which one should make room for the other?

Defining the bottom end- For example kick may 'own the bottom end with bass playing thinner melody. Or bass guitar may own the bottom end with kick punching through but thinner. Or many combinations with them sharing (in complimentary shapes). So goes all that extend down there.

 

[maryslittlesecret]

I failed to mention eariler that I'm using EZ Drummer (pre-produced samples), so I'm assuming I shouldn't have to do a lot of EQ surgery on the drums. I'm guessing the culprits are guitar and bass (which are both recorded through my PODxt)

Not sure if or how that factors into your suggestions, but I figured it may be relevant. Thanks for all the advice!

 

[kludge]

Remember, your children are your slaves. Mix away, and tough if they don't like it! Let them pay for therapy on their own dime as grownups, just like we had to do.

Sure, they'll get their vengeance on you when you're old and in the nursing home, but by then you'll be senile and won't care.

(my children not only have to listen to me mix, they get told to keep quiet while I track!)

 

[TerraMortim]

yeah...to a certain extent, that's actually pretty true.. Do you want to record, or have your kids happy 100% of the time.

Sometimes you just got to say, deal with it...it's what dad does. If they can't handle music maybe THEY need therapy.

 

[Daisy]

You could, like, position each one of your kids in front of you ... and have each one hold up one of your reference monitors for you while they hold still.

Extra points if they can balance them on their heads.

 

[maryslittlesecret]

I'm guessing when they get a bit older (they're currently 4 & 6) and they stay up a little later, I can be loud for a little longer at night, but for now....

Incidentally, I cut a chunk out of my bass guitar at 150Hz last night and that made a huge difference in terms of clarity on different speakers. Still working on some other issues, but I'll be sure to share when it's (closer to) done. Thanks for all the input.

 

[NYMorningstar]

I'm guessing when they get a bit older (they're currently 4 & 6) and they stay up a little later, I can be loud for a little longer at night, but for now....

When my kids were that young they would fall asleep in the middle of my band practice and that was loud, marshall stacks, live drums loud. Kids will sleep through practically anything.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Incidentally, I cut a chunk out of my bass guitar at 150Hz last night and that made a huge difference in terms of clarity on different speakers.

Just curious: How did you decide upon that frequency?

G.