Live sound question-Micing a stand up bass

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dreib

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I only have a few options for mics, a 57, or a cheap pencil condensor, 991 I think, but where is the best place to put the mic?


Thanks!
 
That's probably the hardest instrument to mic well if it's not equppied with a piezo. This is for recording live, or playing live?


Back in my psychobilly days we mic'd it semi-close with a dynamic for slap and pop, and far away with a LDC for tone. Don't mic the f-hole. This was for recording though. Live was different. It had pickups.
 
dreib said:
Just live performance.
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Is this like a wham-bam get-down show with the bassist spinning his bass around and standing on it and shit? Or is he just gonna be standing there like a sleepy jazz gig?
 
dreib said:
Just live performance.
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man .... upright is tough for live. You'd be FAR better off is you can get your hands on a contact pickup you can stick on the bridge ..... there are some pretty cheap ones.

The biggest problem you're gonna have is a boomy feedback. Think acoustic guitar feeding back at a low resonant freq but usually much worse.
You'll almost surely want to put on a low-cut in the EQ'ing of it ...... I think I'd try the SDC ....... possibly will have less low end response than the 57 and thus, hopefully, less boomy problem.
 
I used to play double bass for a living. Been through dozens of mics and other gear.

A dynamic mic is usually better than a condenser *except* for the DPA 4099. That is a miniature shotgun and works awesome. I think I paid about $500, but well worth it. Great for recording too.

Another option to increase your gain before feedback is to use a small Reflexion filter. A 57 in one of those would work well.

Contact mics / piezo pick ups sound like arse. Avoid them if possible. If you cannot get enough gain before feedback with just a mic, your options are to blend a pick up into the mic sound for the extra gain, or switch to a magnetic pickup. A magnetic pickup will make it sound more like a fretless electric, but you will have tons of gain before feedback. At that volume, you're going to lose all the nuance of the instrument anyway - so sounding just like an upright is probably not the priority. Piezo pickups will feedback too, long before a magnetic pickup. I've used this one: Stringcharger.com - Acoustical Bass Pick-Up

Finally, get to a high-end bass shop with your instrument and try some different cabinets. You might find one that compliments your bass more than others. Double basses all have personalities, and you really have to try stuff with your instrument. What is good for one may not be for another.
 
Here's Niels-Henning Orsted Pedersen using a String Charger. This is a good example of the sound:

EDIT - wrong link - I need to find the right one...

Of course, if you swing hard enough the sound is less important...:listeningmusic:
 
leddy said:
I used to play upright for a living. Been through dozens of mics and other gear.

A dynamic mic is better than a condenser *except* for the DPA 4099. That is a miniature shotgun and works awesome. I think I paid about $500, but well worth it. Great for recording too.

Another option to increase your gain before feedback is to use a small Reflexion filter. A 57 in one of those would work well.

Contact mics / piezo pick ups sound like arse. Avoid them if possible. If you cannot get enough gain before feedback with just a mic, your options are to blend a pick up into the mic sound for the extra gain, or switch to a magnetic pickup. A magnetic pickup will make it sound more like a fretless electric, but you will have tons of gain before feedback. At that volume, you're going to lose all the nuance of the instrument anyway - so sounding just like an upright is probably not the priority. Piezo pickups will feedback too, long before a magnetic pickup. I've used this one: Stringcharger.com - Acoustical Bass Pick-Up

Finally, get to a high-end bass shop with your instrument and try some different cabinets. You might find one that compliments your bass more than others. Double basses all have personalities, and you really have to try stuff with your instrument. What is good for one may not be for another.
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ALL the pro upright players I've played with including a couple of VERY good ones (one in Orlando that I think might be the best upright player ever) used pickups that are installed into the bridge.
perhaps those aren't piezos?

I haven't seen a single upright player in years that didn't have something like that ..... none of them used a dynamic mic on the thing.
 
Lt. Bob said:
ALL the pro upright players I've played with including a couple of VERY good ones (one in Orlando that I think might be the best upright player ever) used pickups that are installed into the bridge.
perhaps those aren't piezos?

I haven't seen a single upright player in years that didn't have something like that ..... none of them used a dynamic mic on the thing.
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Most players don't mic their bass because it's a PITA compared to a pick up. Mics sound better. The OP asked about mic'ing the bass - he didn't mention pickups. I only brought up pick ups because you guys mentioned them.
 
Yea I told the dumbass to buy a pick-up for it, but you know, bass players are freakin stupid.....LOL!

Just kidding...relax...Its gonna be used on a few Johny cash songs, he will hold as still as possible, or I will launch a drum stick to the back of his skull, and i guarantee I wont miss!!

I guess we'll see what happens with the SDC.
 
Agree that using a mike on an upright bass is more challenging than using a pickup.

Having said that, I've managed to pull a half-way respectable sound using, of all things, a Behringer C2.

Here is a short sample:https://www.box.com/shared/uim1h825c4
 
Live double bass is always a hard ask, The DPA Leddy suggested is the best option if micing, I recommended one to a Viola player friend who plays in a band and they reckon its the best sound they have ever had.

You could try a AKG D112 down around the bridge and I sometimes use a small condenser at the bottom of the neck, if it's a slap style. However this stuff only works if the bass player is stationary and the drums are not too loud (or don't exist) A good pick up system is the only way if the bass player moves around, he may have to hire one.

I did mix a tango band once, nice big stage, minimum fold back requirements, and a 600 people venue, all acoustic, miced the double bass with a Large condenser and it sounded great. However I even did the vocals with a LArge condenser to make it look old fashioned.

Alan.
 
No one's mentioned rolled up in a pad tucked in the tail piece.
I'd want some eq (1/3 oct or parametric if you can swing it) to tune it in some too.
 
witzendoz said:
You could try a AKG D112 down around the bridge
Alan.
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That's what that microphone was made for.


mixsit said:
No one's mentioned rolled up in a pad tucked in the tail piece.
I'd want some eq (1/3 oct or parametric if you can swing it) to tune it in some too.
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That's what I've had a few double bassist come through with - a 57 rolled in foam stuck into the tail piece.
 
mixsit said:
No one's mentioned rolled up in a pad tucked in the tail piece.
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I would have but I was at work. There's also the padded 57 in an F-hole method.

If volume/bleed/feedback isn't too much of a problem then an RE15 often sounds fantastic on bass.

Way back in my early years of live sound I had some success with a pair of headphones clamped around the body. You put it at the bottom of the cutout opposite the player. Connected to a mono 1/4" input just the left ear cup is picked up so you can flip the phones around for two slightly different sounds.
 
Count me in the "rolled up in a pad in the tail bridge" fan club. I've had really good live results that way.

Surprisingly, the best I've had is using a small electret lav (Sennheiser MKE2 or Sony ECM77) in that position--they're omnis and work really well in that application. For bass spinners, they also work well with radio mic transmitters.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I would have but I was at work. There's also the padded 57 in an F-hole method.

If volume/bleed/feedback isn't too much of a problem then an RE15 often sounds fantastic on bass.

Way back in my early years of live sound I had some success with a pair of headphones clamped around the body. You put it at the bottom of the cutout opposite the player. Connected to a mono 1/4" input just the left ear cup is picked up so you can flip the phones around for two slightly different sounds.
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Ok that's.. very interesting.
At the 'cut out. I guess the F hole for example might be boomy..
Damn I want to try this!
 
mixsit said:
Ok that's.. very interesting.
At the 'cut out. I guess the F hole for example might be boomy..
Damn I want to try this!
Click to expand...

It was hanging there because that's where it stayed on, not for any audio reason that I can recall. Depending on the phones you could perhaps catch the bottom of an F-hole.
 
Well I have lots of ideas now, what I dont have is a huge mic selection, But I have a feeling I can make what I do have work just fine.
 
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