Little input needed...

[TXBamanut]

Previous user jumping back into the fray here...

I'm retiring my VS-880EX and jumping back into the computer recording deal. I have had Cakewalk Pro Audio, but haven't used it in about 5-6 years.

I've done a little research on my own and have felt pretty good about Cakewalk SONAR, but I need a few opinions to help me out.

I'm considering picking up SONAR Producer and an M-Audio Firewire 410. I'm more of a composer than I am about producing CD projects, but my demos need to be good. I'm a video editor by trade, so I'm used to the computer interface, working with loads of tracks. I've been frustrated with having to push eighty-five buttons on the VS-880EX to get what I want done, I was hoping that I could move faster and more efficient through a computer recording solution.

My main things I need:
- Quick & accurate recording
- Ability to produce quality demos
- User friendly visual interface
- Produce some decent charts (leaning more toward chart production than straight scores)

My computer specs are 3.06 Ghz P4, 1 Gb RAM and 120 Gb HD. I'm at work doing this (I know shame on me), so I don't have any other specs on hand about my motherboard, etc...

Based on your experience, am I barking up the RIGHT tree?

 

[guttadaj]

Welcome back into the fray.

I use SONAR 3 Studio edition at the moment. I'm waiting a little while before upgrading to 4 (will stick with Studio - just a hobbyist here and have no need for surround mixing and the other extras) to see if there are any nasty bugs.

I have to say that I really enjoy using it and find it very easy to use.
- Quick & accurate recording Yes!
- Ability to produce quality demos Yes!
- User friendly visual interface Yes!
- Produce some decent charts (leaning more toward chart production than straight scores) It will produce charts for your MIDI stuff, but it's admittedly not the ideal tool for this job. So, you might find it a bit hard to get nice clean charts from it.

Sounds like you've got yourself quite a nice, powerful computer and have a great base of knowledge already. I think you'll be flying in no time with SONAR. Also, the Cakewalk forum here is excellent (!) when it comes to getting answers to Cakewalk software related questions.

HTH
-Jeff

 

[TXBamanut]

Thanks for the super-quick reply...

Jim

 

[manning1]

your computer spec is excellent for a daw.
ideally you should get a second small hard drive 7200 rpm for windows.
and use the 120gb for your tracks. ensure dma is enabled.
my advice as a puter engr is stay away from usb sound solutions.
look at a delta pci sound card.
if you dont have a mixer you could use the mic pre's in the VS , or
look at a yamaha mg mixer a lot like.
NOTE...make sure dma is enabled on your p4 hard drives.
VERY IMPORTANT.if you want to save money on multitrack software
i use and recommend powertracks from pgmusic.com.
(just try the demo. it will surprise you. i never need any more.
(49 bucks). also try band in a box from the same company. very addictive.
it is used by lots of songwriters as a song sketchpad. just try the demoes and talk to users on the forums at pg. great bunch of people who helped me in the past. if you have q's just ask.
peace.

 

[TXBamanut]

Thanks for the reply, Manning. I'll give it a look. I must admit, I'm a little pre-disposed to Cakewalk because I like the earlier product and, I guess, I just got them in my head.

If PowerTracks can win me over, that would really save some bucks to put elsewhere. Hmmmm.....

 

[manning1]

tx. sonar is a very good product. but so is powertracks.
both have their plusses and minuses.
the best idea is to demo both and see which fits better.
i dont want to get into a my dads better than your dad scenario.

 

[TXBamanut]

??

Will I need a mixer or can I just do that after the sources are in the machine? I'm usually just recording myself or at most two singers at once after I've mixed the track down. I just play the instrumental stuff in one instrument at a time.

Thanks for all you help. No my dad is bigger than you dad here, just wanting to make best use of my money.

I remember getting a Kawai K1 and an Atari ST computer back in the late 80s and getting home and feeling totally ripped because it wasn't ANYTHING like what I wanted...just got bamboozled by a salesman...but I guess we've all been there at one time or another. Don't ever want to relive that scenario if possible.

 

[manning1]

yes. i had an atari st once. a lot of us computer engrs did for the fun of it.
i did a lot of midi tracks on it. i gave mine away to someone interested
in learning a little midi.
i dont really understand what your asking. please clarify re your first line of your post. you WILL need a mixer to amplify your mics going to the sound card. you could try out using your VS880 mic pre's and see how well that works. ie coming out of a line out of the VS if it lets you do that into
a sound card in the pc.

 

[tedluk]

If you purchase the M-Audio 410, you wouldn't necessarily need a mixer unless you wish to record more than 2 mic sources at the same time. Even then a mixer wouldn't be required, you could still use a dedicated mic preamp. The reason so many of us get these small mixers is because they usually include 2-8 above average mic preamps for a low cost and they add flexibility to your setup.

If you are able to work within the 2 mic limitation, then you can mix everything within SONAR.

BTW, I use SONAR 3 and it's an excellent program. I've been a Cakewalk user for many years and, they get stronger with each new release.

Ted

 

[TXBamanut]

That's what I wanted to know...

...thanks guys. Manning, my VS-880 had to be sacrificed on the auction block to get the funds for the upgrade, so it isn't an option.

Ted you hit what I wanted.

I was just making sure that the mixer wasn't a requirement. I'm considering myself a newbie, since I've been out of the game for a while, so I'll ask questions first and "opinionize" later. I'm totally cool with the 2 track limitation for now.

If I ever get where I'm not, what would be a good low noise mixer to use?

Manning1, the delta pci audio card you mentioned above? Is that the M-Audio OMNI Studio Delta 66 Digital Soudcard? I've seen this one around and it has a breakout box that goes with it. What's the pros and cons of that one? I know the FW 410 is newer and has some more bells and whistles, but how much of a difference would I pay. Anyone willing to share on this issue would help me. Thanks, manning.

 

[tedluk]

Well, that depends on how much you want to spend. On the low cost side, many here like the Yamaha MG series. Behringer makes a lot of inexpensive mixers too and they're ok. I use a UB1204 (I think that's the number). I just needed some way to get more keyboards into my recorder without repatching.

If you spend more, then there are lots of options. Soundcraft, Allen & Heath, Yamaha (again), Mackie, etc.

You may find as you progress that mixing within a sequencer is not a lot of fun, since you have to use a mouse and you can only work on one channel at a time. That's why there are control surfaces out there. But, that's for later.

Ted

 

[TXBamanut]

Delta PCI card

Manning1, the delta pci audio card you mentioned above? Is that the M-Audio OMNI Studio Delta 66 Digital Soudcard? I've seen this one around and it has a breakout box that goes with it. What's the pros and cons of that one? I know the FW 410 is newer and has some more bells and whistles, but how much of a difference would I pay. Anyone willing to share on this issue would help me. Thanks, manning.

 

[manning1]

tx. some of the delta range are newer. the one i was referring to was the delta 1010lt that a lot of folks seem to like for the inputs.
or for less inputs the 44.
but its important to list whats in your pci slots of your pc.
then i can comment if anything is potentially going to screw things up.
i just helped arch_jedi on here. it turned out the network card was the source of probs. once he turned it off the probs disappeared.
so - please list your cards in pci slots. its very important. peace.

 

[TXBamanut]

Here goes...

I've got a Que Firewire Card, a SoundMax Integrated Sound Card, Intel(R) PRO/100 VE Network card, NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Video card and 2 or 3 slots left over...

That's what I've got.

 

[manning1]

out of that list i would watch the network stuff carefully.
leave it in till you get the pci sound card and if you get problems of pops/clicks etc with the delta disable it (control panel) like arch_jedi while using pc as a recording daw. IDEALLY , you need to do what i did.
i have a main recording daw which doesnt touch the net. and a second one i built out of kludge parts for surfing the net. this is the one i'm using right now. i also wrote my own small internet browser , that i'm using now talking to you. thus i get no viruses or spyware. if your willing to get with some computer programming, you could too. pyxia.com (ibasic) is a great little compiler for building quick windows applications. i urge you to learn some computer engineering. maybe take a night course. really helps when running a studio.
peace.

 

[borntoplease]

get a great analog front end mixer, it will make life ten times easier. the midas has incredible pres (XL4 i think, from the high end boards) and brilliant british EQ. its a live board but will kick major ass in the studio. as far as EQ goes, i bet you'd never have to use your computer for that again... just my two cents. i have one on order from midas... woohoo

 

[manning1]

tx. i forgot to mention if scoring and charts are your thing you should
really check out band in a box from pg. i dont do them so i always forget it has this function. i just happened to read a thread yesterday on another net forum that reminded me. particularly the printing area . where people were extolling its virtues and facilities in powertracks as well.
i'm no expert in this area of scoring etc so just try it out.

 

[TXBamanut]

Great for you, borntoplease...

get a great analog front end mixer, it will make life ten times easier. the midas has incredible pres (XL4 i think, from the high end boards) and brilliant british EQ. its a live board but will kick major ass in the studio. as far as EQ goes, i bet you'd never have to use your computer for that again...

...BUT you are throwing in WAY more than 2 cents if you are trying to extol the virtues of Midas mixers..."Little" input needed also applies the amount of money I have to spend.

If I had several thousand dollars to throw around, I wouldn't be wasting my time with $100-$300 sound cards and $300 software.

$600-$700 vs. $2500 (& up,up,up) and then we'll need some equipment to actually capture what's recorded.....hmmmmmmm.....my hobby on steroids on my salary......the choice is simple...Midas IS made of gold and is of no use to me. (I'm not even beginning to mention the space considerations in my small home studio...)

I'm so glad that you have that kind of money and I really hope that you enjoy your new toy, but that really doesn't help me too much, except to know who to come to if I need to borrow a board.

 

[manning1]

tx. you can make your mic pre's like i do for 20 bucks diy. just search the net for schematics.
but price of mg mixer is so small not really worth it.
midas is nice but not really needed.....