listen to these drums and HELP?!?!?!

  • Thread starter Thread starter thajeremy
  • Start date Start date
thajeremy

thajeremy

registered abuser
I started recording some friends of mine this weekend and here is a sample of what I got on the drums.



Setup:

Snare: ATM29HE
Kick : Beta 52
Toms: MB2000L's
OH's: MXL 990 and SP B-1

the room is probably 13 feet wide by 18 feet long. The drums are set up against one of the 13 ft walls facing the center of the room. We stapled some "egg crate" material to plywood and set it up in front of the kit to help with some of the echo's and didnt really treat the ceiling at all. Floor is carpeted. Any suggestions

Thanks
Jeremy
 
well drums are my bane but... egg crate's apparently don't do anything... for mine I close miked the drums and I have a room probably crappier sounding than yours... I put the drums right in the center - put blankets up on every wall and it sounded mighty dead, which was great, because I just added reverb later.

I only used four mic's... one on snare, one on kick and two overheads, using a specific method... it took me about a week and a half to get the sound I wanted...

method here: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=39030
 
Well it would help if you had a drummer that played solidly...

Overlooking that, the overheads are way, way too tinny and harsh/strident. The ride sounds *terrible*, the high hat is limp wristed, and the cymbals are just white noise washes. Zero definition on the kick... hallmark of the Beta 52. I hate that mic, along with the rest of the Beta series Shure mics. Snare isn't too bad--at least it isn't really boxy sounding. A tad bit thin.

My guess is over use of equalization. Too many boosts result in an unnatural sound, an unnatural and thin high end, and a boomy, tubby kick that just doesn't work.

Personally I wouldn't have put my drum kit where you put yours... I put mine in the corner about 3' from the walls either way. Elevated 6" or so if possible, with a semi thick carpet to try and cut floor resonance down. I swear middle of the room is the worst thing you can do, but in the middle of the wall is bad as well. I just go for the corners. :)

I can't comment on the toms because I didn't hear them struck in that demo.

Honestly, go with matched pairs--or at least the same mic--for overheads. Watch the EQ... as a general rule if you are boosting more than 6db of eq something is wrong, wrong, wrong with your mic placement or mic choice. In honesty I don't have to do much more than 2 or sometimes 3db boosts or cuts on any drum eq's.

What mixer? What preamps? What AD converters? What media format? These are also helpful to giving you advice to improving your sound.

If you want my advice in general you need to get your overhead situation sorted out--get those to sound AMAZING on their own and then add the kick mic... get that to balance out and sound great, and then use the close snare, tom and high hat mics to bring out elements in those drums you aren't getting in the overheads.

Overheads are the KEY to good drum sounds. Having two quality condensors on overheads, running thru some good preamps and thru good converters will get you 90% of the way there every time. I'd rather have 2 AKG 414BULS and a D12 to get drum sounds than an arsenal of lesser microphones. Heck--you could still stick SM57's on snare/toms and it wouldn't cost much more.

Above all, drop some cash on your overhead condensors, spend some time with them, get *at least* Mackie level preamps and you'll find getting drum sounds isn't hard.

Oh yeah, and the drummer and their kit help out as well.

Drum sounds are simple if you have the right tools. It's only hard when you have iffy tools.... Why do you think pro's are so fussy about what they use to record drums with, the fact that it always sounds good, and it isn't hard? They use the good stuff.

Maybe you can't afford THAT good of stuff, but there's tons of things that can get you most of the way there.... like older Rode NT1 mics, before they were made in China.
 
Clone, I think your comment is way too harsh and not constructive.
After all, the drummer ain't that bad, the problem is in the mix, like you said, probably eq and the balance isn't just there.

But I think the guy is on a good way, make your OH's sound a little fuller, a really good compressor can do wonders here. Make the kick more tight sounding, the snare a little louder and add a very short room or plate reverb to the snare, that will make it sound bigger.
 
thanks for getting my back there Han...lol...

no..I know that I have a long way to go. I posted here because I know people will be honest about it. Its easier to be honest with someone when you dont have to look at them...lol

anyway Cloneboy...I recorded that with a mackie 1204, a Terratec EWS 88/MT soundcard, and CEP 2.1

I could easily get my hands on a couple of 57's from a friend. He also has 2 nady CD-88 OH condensor's. I know they are nady but at least they are matched. Maybe i should try those until i get a couple of good mics for myself.

Han...as far as making the kick sound tighter...that is where I felt my biggest problem is. Im not exactly sure what i need to do here...ill work on it thought...thanks for all the comments...hope to get a few more before this thread hits page 2..lol...
 
Han,

My comments are harsh, but they are constructive. Note that the majority of my post is advice and not just criticism.

Stop coddling the noobs, you're not helping them any by sheltering them from the cold, hard world of recording.
 
Well, the biggest problem is the source, the kick must sound very good and tight.

A D112, will sound different from a Beta52 and so will a Beyer M88 sound completely different from a D112.

Oh and Cloneboy, I'm not coddling the noobs and I simply try to help, like many very helpful and very pro engineers once helped me and still do.

The recording world cold and hard? Don't agree on that one mate.

thajeremy seems a smart guy to me and when he listens to a number of guys here and reads as much as he can find, he will get great drumsound within a couple of months.
 
lol...there are a few people here who can be quite blunt and for the most part...it is a good thing...like i said...friends and family dont want to be discouraging and will tell you how good of a job you are doing, when in reality...they want to tell you not to give up your day job...lol..or they just dont know what the hell they are talking about. To the average listener of music, most home recordings probably do sound good and they wonder how you do it. Its the people who put in the LONG HOURS and work who can tell the differance and can really appreciate a good home recording.

Now, i guess i need to decide on weather or not to give up the beta on ebay and go with the D112. it was a toss up between the 2 in the beginning anyway. I dont know anyone who has one that I can try out. What sucks is that 2 weeks after my Beta arrived..i saw a D112 on ebay for $105 which i could have easily gotten since i gave $115 for my beta on ebay.

I guess i also need to work on the room. Im not doing these recordings at my own place. These friends who i am helping out have their own place...a vacant 5 br house, all of which can be used any way we want. the drums are currently in the largest room. Should I go for a smaller room and use the blankets on the wall to deaden the room and use reverb? I know better OH mics will make a differance and maybe grab a couple of 57's from another friend. I kinda like the sound i can get from the ATM29HE on the snare but i will trade it out with a 57 to see what that can do and maybe put the ATM on the toms or use it to back up the beta.

The drums are going to be the hardest part of this demo as Cloneboy pointed out that the drumer needs to play a little more "solid", but..i finally convinced them that they need to play to a click so im hoping that will do a lot for their tightness. The rest of the band can hold their own.

any other suggestions/comments are welcome and wanted...]

thanks..
jeremy
 
I posted this same thread in the MP3 mixing clinic as well. only got one reply there..too bad it isnt as popular as this one....lol...
 
Han said:
The recording world cold and hard? Don't agree on that one mate.

It is when you are just starting out and wondering why your recordings don't sound so hot! There is a steep learning curve for recording, that once you get over that hump it is smooth sailing and easy. Trick is getting over that first part to where you can have fun with it AND sound good.
 
Back
Top