Lighting versus Clouds

[Jack Russell]

Well, I'm moving along slowly but surely on a basement studio project. I'll attach the layout also (kindly done before by R. Fitzpatrick).

As with most projects you wake up one day and say "What the hell!? I just forgot something!" So, today I realized that the 5-inch lighting cans I've planned for the ceiling might not work with the floating cloud(s) that will hang below them. Duh!!!

In the rehearsal/recording end of my studio plan I was going to place 4 resessed light cans. Now I'm wondering if I should leave these out.

Question 1: Would a good solution be to go ahead with the 4 lights, but plan on putting separate floating clouds up near the ceiling but between the lights? That is, within 4 inches of the ceiling?

I also will have a separate cloud over the mixing position.

Quesiton 2: Am I correct in concluding that a cloud over the mixing area should be spaced lower from the ceiling than those in the back end? Perhaps a foot lower?

Ceilings are all 9 foot, by the way. Or 8' 10" precisely.

 

[frederic]

I finished making two cloud frames out of steel for a good friend of mine, both are 2'x4', and made of 3/32" thick steel flats that are 1" wide, turned on their sides. Offset from the center of the 4' dimension, there is a 1" thin-wall square tubing welded in that goes across the 2' dimenions, which I drilled and tapped three holes, so my friend can install small eyeball light cans into the clouds, one per.

Across the face of the cloud, the side facing down, I stretched and welded on stainless steel window screen to support the fiberglass without sagging, thus avoiding any possibility of the cloth or fiberglass from sagging against the open end of the eyeball fixture. It's insulated, so any and all heat has to come out the eyeball opening.

Anyway, that's how we built clouds with lights built in. One can do this with wood instead of steel, too. My friend just showed up with a pile of cheap, thin steel and said "can you make me two clouds with eyeball lights? I brought the steel and a pizza and a 12 pack". How could I say no? ;-)

 

[Jack Russell]

Thanks for the tip, frederic. That sounds like a good way to get around it.

 

[applejax]

What are clouds... lol

 

[frederic]

Thanks for the tip, frederic. That sounds like a good way to get around it.

My studio is a little different... my console table is under a slanted ceiling, so the lights are half way up the slant, facing down on the console. Eight of them with 35W halogens on a dimmer since that's too bright for me.

The clouds sit about a foot down the slant, or will once I hook them on the hangers... and behind the clouds on the level part of the ceiling is a flourescent for cleaning, soldering, etc and two eyeball halogens on another dimmer for lighting the producer's desk behind me and the gear in it.

 

[applejax]

seriosuly lol what are these "clouds"...

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

seriosuly lol what are these "clouds"...

They are broadband absorbers hung from or mounted to the ceiling over the engineering posistion, to keep early reflections from the ceiling from interfering with the direct sound from the monitors. The reflections introduce comb filtering effects, which in effect is distortion. The term "comb filter" comes from the closely spaced peaks and nulls which on a scope look like teeth of a comb. They are the most common form of interference, as they are everywhere. Thats why mics placed close to walls, or low ceilings will clearly pick them up. Try it yourself. Furthermore, this is the WHOLE point of having a longer time delay gap(TDG) in the control room than in the studio, so the engineer can HEAR them prior to recording. If the control room early relections mask the studio reflections, how do you know what you are hearing?
fitZ

 

[Jack Russell]

seriosuly lol what are these "clouds"...

They are also the fog that accumulates as you smoke weed and stay up late doing a session. They usually get thick around the mixing position, not to mention your head, as you track, track, track. Mental illness is the end result.

Lighting is a good tool for disbursing the fog of clouds. Especially interrogation-style lamps aimed up from the console itself at the fog sufferer's face.

The effect is particluarly bad in basement studios without windows.

 

[applejax]

is that what your using them for lol... Thanks though...now i understand

 

[Innovations]

Usually for something like a studio where you work with computers I would select an indirect and task lighting combination. (Indirect lighting is something like a torchiere or wall sconce that throws light on the surface of a room, Task lighting is something like a crane arm light. This helps keep glare off of the monitors. Lately for the task lighting I like full spectrum compact fluorescents rather than halogens because they generate less heat near you.

I generall avoid recessed cans in a studio as it is another possible flanking path for sound. Also sometimes they can have rattles. In our church there is a recessed can just above the choir seating. When the organ hits a low G it rattles like crazy.

One trick you might find fun would be to incorporate indirect lighting into the clouds themselves. In other words have a two foot bare tube fluorescent hung with the tube up and then hang the cloud from it...the light would be coming out from all sides of the cloud.

 

[Jack Russell]

Thanks for the ideas, Innov.; your name is very appropriate! Those are great points. I didn't think about the glare and rattle. I wonder about the heat issue, though, of hanging the 703 off the light fixture.

I like the idea of wall sconces also. If the clouds were white, then you could reflect the light off them, thus adding to the diffusion of the light and thereby less glare.One problem with diffused lighting in the rehearsal/recording part, though, is being able to read charts. That might be something to consider...

At this point my latest thoughts are to (1) do without clouds in the recording part of the space (these can be added more effectively later anyway once i'm in the actual space....since it is for rehearsing and recording then it would be better to add or remove clouds, absorbers, etc. for each situation); (2) place one cloud over the mixing console (3 x 5 feet or so); (3) have wall sconces or pine-hole wall lighting around the console to illuminate the walls; (4) have a good desk lamp on the console; (5) go with 4 quartz lights, which are not inside cans, over the recording end and take some time in the installation to make sure they don't rattle.

That seems to be the best solution. Yes?

 

[Phyl]

I finished making two cloud frames out of steel for a good friend of mine, both are 2'x4', and made of 3/32" thick steel flats that are 1" wide, turned on their sides. Offset from the center of the 4' dimension, there is a 1" thin-wall square tubing welded in that goes across the 2' dimenions, which I drilled and tapped three holes, so my friend can install small eyeball light cans into the clouds, one per.

Across the face of the cloud, the side facing down, I stretched and welded on stainless steel window screen to support the fiberglass without sagging, thus avoiding any possibility of the cloth or fiberglass from sagging against the open end of the eyeball fixture. It's insulated, so any and all heat has to come out the eyeball opening.

Anyway, that's how we built clouds with lights built in. One can do this with wood instead of steel, too. My friend just showed up with a pile of cheap, thin steel and said "can you make me two clouds with eyeball lights? I brought the steel and a pizza and a 12 pack". How could I say no? ;-)

Got pictures?