Lexicon Bits

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Jerry Kahn

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So I guess I am gonna pick up a Lexicon, to complement my soon to be purchased used Roland Space Echo. So the question is, do I go with a used PCM 70?, a used PCM 80?, a used 90 each at the $1000-1400 range? OR how bout a brand new PCM 91 @ $2K? --OR-- the MPX 100 @ $200 or MPX500 @ $400?

Here's the gory details that I have come across so far. From the brochures, Lexicon says the new PCM 91 has...
A/D Performance--
** Conversion: 24 bits, 128x oversampling
Digital Audio Interface --
Sample Rates: 44.1kHz, 48kHz
** Conversion Data Path: 20 bits;
** DSP Data Path: 20/24 bits
7.96dB of Dynamic Range

Whereas, the MPX 500 claims to have...
** 24-BIT Balanced analog I/O

On the other hand, the MPX 100 has...
** 24-bit internal processing
** 20-bit A/D-D/A and a 20 Hz-20kHz

Bottom Line-- In terms of sound quality, which one is best?
Also-- How do these 'bit specs' play in? What is the difference between A/D Conversion bits, Digital Audio Interface Conversion Data Path bits, and DSP Data Path bits.
And-- Does anyone know the bit specs of the older PCM 70,80 and 90 models? How do they rate? Am I comparing apples and oranges?
Finally-- Are there better units than Lexicon?

With many bits of Thanx,

-- Jerry
 
Well...

Aren't we full of questions today? ;)

You are getting all hung up on converter quality on a bunch of units that you need not to with. With Lexicon units, it is about the algorythym's!

Lexicon made the first digital reverb, and they have invested considerable amounts of time and money creating algorythyms of the greatest rooms in the world, and making sure their units deliver "that sound".

Okay. If you got the money for a PCM 80, 90, or 91, don't even be thinking about the "lesser" Lexicon units. Basically, any of those three would be a welcomed addition in ANY studios effect rack. They are possible some of the best processors on the market. The PCM 90 and 91 in my opinion ARE tne best reverb processors in this solar system. If you can afford one, by god, get it! You will never sell it.

Now, if you have an eye towards a little lower budget, the PCM 70 is an excellent sounding reverb for the money, and the parameter controls are fairly deep. Really, that is what you are paying for in Lexicon units. They all mostly use the same algorythyms, just with the better units, you get more parameter control, and usually a little better A/D/A converters.

A PCM 90 or 91 will give you control of every parameter you can possibly think of in a reverb algorythym. A 70 will have fewer. A MPX 1 will have fewer. The MPX 500, even fewer still. The MPX 100 is mostly useless as a studio reverb, and I don't even like it for live. Basically, you have almost no individual parameter control. You are mostly stuck with what they give you in that box. Not really worth the investment. I would rather have my LXP 1 with the MRC then a MPX 100.

I think that you are going to have a difficult time finding a whole lot of difference in most uses with the difference in 20 and 24 bit converters. Internal paths of 24 bit are desireable, so definately you want that. But most processors now have 24 bit internal dsp, so, that is not an "outstanding" feature like many claim it is. BUT, the quality of the algorythym for all the dsp IS what makes some units much better sounding then others.

Lexicon IS heard everywhere. Get at least the PCM 70.

Oh, by the way, the PCM 80 was more of a multi effects unit. I contains a few reverbs that the PCM 90 has, and it also lacks a few parameter controls from what I understand. It would be however the best overall processor, because the 90's don't have the other effects like the 80.

Good luck.

Ed
 
The MPX 100 is mostly useless as a studio reverb, and I don't even like it for live. Basically, you have almost no individual parameter control.

Is this in your opinion the only reason, or do you think that the sound quality differs too?
 
--- The MPX 100 is mostly useless as a studio reverb, and I don't even like it for live. Basically, you have almost no individual parameter control. ---

--- Is this in your opinion the only reason, or do you think that the sound quality differs too? ---




I have used the MPX100 quite a lot without getting any good result. It's not only the parameter control but also the sound quality. It simply doesn't sound "good". I know that units in this price range don't sound expensive, but...

Personnally, I would save my money for something better. Maybe the TC M2000 or M-ONE.


fimpen
megotart
 
Great to hear that. I listened to one, and I though it just didn't have that Lexicon sound as the PCM series have. nice to know I'm not alone in that.

I'll have to save up for a used PCM70 or something.
 
much obliged, sonusman

Thanks Ed, for the reverb feedback. I almost decided on picking up the MPX 100, cause it's so cheap. But, it seems like it's just not worth it. Thanks also for clarifying the algorithem & bits issues.
- Jerry
 
Hmmmmm...

Well, what little bit I have got to use the 100 with studio monitors (just demo stuff at a music store, I actually thought for the money, it had a very rich sound to it. Not thin and cheesy like digitech and alesis stuff usually has.

The problem is that NONE of the preset, or the extremely limited parameter controls seem to fix the sounds in the way I want them too. Basically, if I could get the predelay and the decay on sperate controls, then I would be happy enough with the 100. But alas! the Adjust knob on that unit changes BOTH at the same time. What were they thinking?!?!?!?!?!?!

So, it COULD be a good unit, if you can get into the parameters.

Truthfully, if budget is still of a concern, the LXP 1 with the MRC controller is the best way to go.

Also, you might look into the Reflex and the Alex units. I forget what the difference between them were, but I used to use one for live sound at a club, and it sounding amazing for it's price. And yes, you have very good parameter control with the unit....:)

The MPX 1 though is probably the best under $1000 processor on the market.....:) If I had the bucks right now, that is what I would be getting.
Ed
 
MPX 1 $649 mounted, balanced, bored and stroked, out-the-door at 8thstreetmusic.com.
 
.... also, just a thought..... granted the MPX 100 is limited.... @ 200 bucks new, and 125 - 175 on online auctions - that lexicon sound is still apparent. Okay it ain't gonna compete with an 81, 91 a 70 and even an MPX 1, but man, like Ed said, compared to some of the other fodder out there..... @ the price.... shhheeshh! Maybe, just maybe pushing that 100 box where it just shouldn't be going. For a "smell" of some very basic effects in CERTAIN applications, for a sub $200 effect box..... ??????????

Ditto Ed, @ 649 the 1 rocks. If you got the cash, hell yeah boost it towards the 91, and if your kick says attenuate (we don't have the CASH MAN!) that 100 ain't THAT BAD!!
 
Thanks again folks. I think I have narrowed things down a bit. It looks like either the M-1, or a used PCM 80-90 will be the winner, and I'll be down about 1K!
 
Don't forget the MPX-1

I may be wrong but I think the MPX-1 would fit somewhere between the M-One and the PCM-80. Like others have said, if you can get a PCM, get it. But here's something very cool about the MPX-1:

It has two processors. One is always dedicated to reverb. So even if you want to delay, chorus, pitch shift, and then also have reverb; the reverb processor is not being taxed to do any of the other processing.
 
made of $

Thanks saxman, actually I ended up getting the Lexicon PCM 91. Good thing I'm MADE OF MONEY. Now saxman, I'm getting a little hungry... can you spare five bucks?
 
PCM 91 (JERRY K)

Hi Jerry - Quite a while back, you purchased a PCM 91. I am considering getting one to go digi to my VS 890. What do you think about yours? Would you recommend it?

Thanks for any input.

Charley
 
hey jerry,

the space echo, is it the srv 330. THats the reverb I WANT. It only does reverb, but I heard that its the best one this side of $1000. Even better than the mpx1.

Those who think that you cant get good results with an mpx100 need to listen to mp3s on this proffesional page which were all done with an mpx100. THey sound phat as heck. I guess one just has to know what one is doing.

www.blueproductions.co.uk
 
Hey guys-- wow these posts don't die?! Sorry it took so long to get back. The PCM 91 is awesome and so is the Space Echo (I will check the model number when I get home). Everything has plusses and minuses. The plusses on the Lex is the sound. Minus is price. The Space Echo sounds real cool-- but it's, like, mechanical, and needs to be maintained.

I love them both, and never regretted getting either one of them.
Enjoy - jk
 
Jerry - Thank you very kindly for responding. Do you think the PCM91 is enough improvement in reverb over stock reverbs that come with Roland VS 890, etc., to warrant the cost. I really don't mind paying the price ($1695) if the BIG improvement is possible. If you can advise me on this one, I would appreciate it. Thank you ever so much.

Best Regards,

Charley
 
In your situation, I'd probably go for the MPX500. I love mine, they sound friggin awesome, and all the parameters are editable. If I actually had the $$$ I'd have 3 of these sitting in my studio. Bruce Bluebear did a comparison between the MPX500 and the TC M-One and the 500 came out on top.

Trust me...get the MPX500 and live a happy fullfilled life :D

Link
 
cholt:

I don't really know too much about the Roland unit. Probably one of these other smart guys like Bruce could better advise you. If you want to be sure you could always play my game: buy it from a place like Sam Ash that has a money back return policy, then do an A-B with your unit's reverb and make a recording. Then you can repeat ad lib with these other verbs like the MPX's and the TC's.

Go to town!!

JK
 
Jerry - Thank you for your response and advice. I ordered the PCM91 today, and should have it next week. I'll hook it up to my 890, and give it a whirl. Will report back my progress for others here contemplating the same thing.

Best Regards,

Charley
 
This is probably a little bit off subject but what the heck. I had the privilige the other day to work with the 480. Man was I stunned. It even was a live-gig. I never thought I would say that spending like $15000 on a reverb was justified, but listening to this sucker.....who wants to buy my car?

This thing doesn't add reverb, it adds acoustic !
 
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