Let's Talk Les Pauls

  • Thread starter Thread starter Zaphod B
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"more Gibson than Gibson"

Yeah, that's a good line. I'd be inclined to do it, if I didn't already have my own LP.

I'm leaning strongly in favor. I mean, there are SO MANY Gibson LPs around!

Not a rational motive, but what the hell. It's an electric guitar. At one point, a couple of years ago, I had 16 of the rascals.
 
Unsprung said:
I'll eventually get another Gibson Les Paul; currently have an Epiphone Les Paul Jr. 90, and a Gibson Les Paul Faded Double Cut. I don't really like the looks of the Gibson Les Paul Menace, so which should I go for - Gibson Les Paul Vintage Mahogany, or Gibson Les Paul Faded Special? Granted I should find a few copies of each, to try out, so how much tonal differences might I expect between the two? For now, I'll use my Ibanez JTK2 Jet King, whenever I want some solid body/two humbuckers in my musical creations. Besides, my Jet King is now a rarity, since Ibanez no longer makes 'em in tobacco sunburst.

As it is, I'm happy enough with the two Les Pauls I've already got, I'm planning to record with both of them as they came out of the box. Haven't yet found time enough to get 'em to a tech, to have Bigsby B5's and other goodies (roller bridges and locking tuners) added to 'em. I've even got a Gibson P90 for the Epiphone, but I'll have to wait to enhance the sound of it. I know some folks tend to knock Epiphone, but this is a case of "if it sounds that good out of the box, how much better can it get with a Gibson pickup?"

Matt
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Between those 2 choices I would go with the Vintage mahogany without a doubt.
It's a solid mahogany guitar with a carved top (special is a flat top), neck inlays (instead of those stupid looking tiny squares of the specials), and the pickups are bustbuckers (the best gibson humbuckers IMO). The Vintage Mahogany is an excellent value for the money.

I'm going to try to find a used one and do a gold top with the reranch goldtop paint. I saw one done like that and it was really cool!
 
Zaphod B said:
So, you guys who are familiar with Heritage guitars -

Would you recommend buying a Heritage H-150 (their Les Paul equivalent) by mail-order, sight-unseen, knowing that there will likely never be any factory support - in other words, no warranty or technical support whatsoever?
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I'm a salesman, so, let me put it this way...

Would you say that you would be playing the guitar at least 10 hours a week?

Either guitar would last 20+ years so look at it like this:

10 hours a week times 52 weeks is 520 hours a year

In 20 years that would be 10,400 hours

On a $2000 les paul that translates into aprox. 19 cents an hour
A $1000 non-gibson would run about 10 cents an hour.

So, over the long haul you are literally talking about 9 cents an hour difference in cost of ownership.

Isn't it true that if you invest in the gibson les paul you will have the legendary axe that helped define rock and roll, the gibson name displayed proudly on the (correct shaped) headstock, A cutaway that looks right, a guitar that makes other players drool with jealousy because it's the real thing?

In other words you would have the guitar you WANT...not the guitar you have to settle for?

Is that worth 9 cents an hour to you?

Is your own personal pride of ownership worth a measly 9 cents? (and we haven't even gotten into the resale prices of real les pauls vs les paul copies)



Guitar Center should contract me to train their salesmen...I bet those nitwits could move a ton of Gibsons with my guidence. ;):D

I'm in Atlanta Ga. tonight...we are doing a sales training seminar for new agents, so, I have this type of shit on the brain tonight.
 
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My favouritest 2 children! :)

CopyofStudioTreatments013-1.jpg
 
jimistone said:
In other words you would have the guitar you WANT...not the guitar you have to settle for?

Is that worth 9 cents an hour to you?
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Point taken, Jimi, and you've expressed your views on long-term cost of ownership before, and I agree with you. All instruments that get played are dirt cheap over the long term, so it does come down to pennies an hour.

I can afford pretty much whatever I want, so I'm not having to settle for anything. Whatever I get will be what I wanted.

It's going to take a lot of convincing to push me off the Gibson wagon. I know there are guitar manufacturers out there that build more consistently, or "better" guitars, but those brands do not manufacture the guitar that is one of the paradigms of rock and roll.
 
Les Paul!?!,

Its just another g. after all (all be it with kudos - but so what!) I bought an '83 Deluxe back in '87. I still use it, but just for the changes. Okay, its got a sweet tone but what the hell - the mini HB's have had a quarter century to mellow. For the single notes I use hollow-bodied jazzers. Look the point is this, don't get sucked by the name on the peg-head. Either you can spank plank or you can't.
If you can't play, shit don't pay..., and pay... and pay.

http://www.soundclick.com/kroad

K.
 
Hell, go for it.

It's never "a guitar like a Les Paul" or a "Les Paul that wasn't made by Gibson"; it's either a Gibson Les Paul or it ain't.

Me, I'm no gear snob, but even I would not buy a copy or an Epiphone or a you-name-it. If it's not the real thing, IT'S NOT THE REAL THING. If I bought a Paul Reed Smith, it'd have to be one that had a PRS personality, not that of an ersatz LP.

I could be seduced into getting a Heritage, but I wouldn't think I had an LP. It too would have to exhibit its own personality.

Twenty-five years ago I bought a Gretsch Chet Atkins Country Gentleman. When I got it I took off the peculiar rocking-bar bridge, removed the pickguard, and started contemplating other changes it needed (I even thought about removing the Bigsby and refinishing the body).

Eventually I came to my senses and realized that the Country Gent was its own device, with its unique personality, quirks, and integrity. I returned it to standard, and soon fell in love with its Bigsby and other features (I confess it took me a month or so to learn how to get it in tune, especially when changing strings).

These days I mostly play bass in my band, and it's a Fender Precision. It's not a Peavey with a Precision-style pickup, it's not a Sadowsky (with prossibly much higher quality!) with a Precision pickup, it's a *$&^$% Fender. Same thing with my '51 Reissue. It came from Fender, not Jay Turser or Nash or any of the other people who make that style of bass. Sure, the former P was made in Mexico and the latter one's from Japan, but, dammit, they're Fenders. That's as close to the source as I'm likely to get, and it's closer than any of the alternatives without spending a bazillion dollars for originals from the '50s.

My "keepers" all have what I referred to as personality, which is a amalgam of all the traits that make them different from the others, and by extension I like to think that the "personality" of a particular instrument is something typical of its breed -- the '51 P is thumpy, the split-coil P is mid-rangey, the Deluxe (shown in my avatar) sings sweetly -- and that I can wallow in the foibles and fun that made these axes classics.

Oh, and by the way, don't neglect the Deluxe. They are often boat anchors, but damn do they sound good! MF's the only place that currently sells 'em.
 
lpdeluxe said:
Twenty-five years ago I bought a Gretsch Chet Atkins Country Gentleman. When I got it I took off the peculiar rocking-bar bridge, removed the pickguard, and started contemplating other changes it needed (I even thought about removing the Bigsby and refinishing the body).

Eventually I came to my senses and realized that the Country Gent was its own device, with its unique personality, quirks, and integrity.
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I once owned a Gretch White Falcon. Wonderful guitar. Unlike anything I had ever played. But not what I really needed or wanted at that time - so I sold it for something more appropriate.

It was what it was, and I hope someone is still enjoying that one. :)
 
What information can anyone add to these two bridges? The one solo wrap around and the one with the adjustable add-on.

What years etc...

So whats the word on the street for these GOLDTOP re-issues....I don't have $100,000 for a real one....are they junk or did they do a good job copying them?

I'm seeing used Epi's for $300 and some of the Gibsons around $3400..Goldtop's.
 

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Yo Zaphod! Make sure you match the nice axe to what you want to do with it. I don't know about Les Pauls as much, but I had an SG Supreme. The frets were very squared off to increase sustain, and you get all the frets you can stand. The neck was unstable with anything above .09's, and I use .11's with a wound G. If you play rhythm, a shorter scale and rounder frets may be in order. I spent more time messing with the truss rod than I did playing it. And I'll stake a claim here across the street from the Hammer and Heritage guys and say- in that price range, why would you go brand new, when there are better made old Gibsons out there? I don't know about this chambered thing. All the Les Pauls I've ever used were heavy like a rock, and that is part of their character. They're supposed to be heavy. Les Paul was a jazz guy, and liked to play sitting down. It's quite comfortable for that. I got a cure for the weight problem, though. Play a Travis Bean for a year, and that Les Paul will feel like a feather in your hands. Good Luck-Richie
 
Zaphod B said:
lpdeluxe - You've hit on a lot of the points I was considering.

My initial goal was to populate my collection with a Gibson LP - not a Studio, or Special, or DC, but a bound-body, carved-maple-top, single-cut Les Paul, because I consider it a benchmark instrument, one that is a necessary addition to any batch of guitars, and I don't have one.

Based on the positive comments about Heritage guitars that I've seen in this and other posts (especially if Light likes 'em), I'm willing to entertain the idea. And knowing that they are made in the original Gibson Kalamazoo factory, by some of the former Gibson craftspeople, does give them a "more Gibson than Gibson" appeal.

But I'm a little leery of the current situation. The Heritage H-150 does use standard form / fit / function humbuckers (P-90s on some models) so replacement is surely possible. Resale? Who knows what the market will say?
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According to Heritage's website, they are in fact resuming production at some point soon. They play as well as the Gibson Les Pauls I've played, and the one I bought was purchased site unseen (from ebay). Its always a potential for risk though, so I'd see if there might be a Heritage dealer around that has used stuff as well.
 
If I were you, I'd just buy 500 high quality dildos.
 
Zaphod B said:
Point taken, Jimi, and you've expressed your views on long-term cost of ownership before, and I agree with you. All instruments that get played are dirt cheap over the long term, so it does come down to pennies an hour.

I can afford pretty much whatever I want, so I'm not having to settle for anything. Whatever I get will be what I wanted.

It's going to take a lot of convincing to push me off the Gibson wagon. I know there are guitar manufacturers out there that build more consistently, or "better" guitars, but those brands do not manufacture the guitar that is one of the paradigms of rock and roll.
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I don't think that Heritage makes "better" guitars, per se, they just tend to resell for much cheaper. If you were to buy a Heritage brand new, it would likely cost the same, if not more, than a Gibson. Definitely excellent build quality, but you can find all those things from either company.

Wow jimi, really not flexible on the Gibson thing, huh? :)
 
thanks Lpdeluxe...

so the crooked soapbar, aka "wraparound", bridge was 1952 to 55.
As a pic shows a 56 had one with the adjustable saddles, as I understand it.

So the Epi and Gib re-issue 56' have the adjustable saddles. Seems right.

reading the late 60's people started sanding off the gold for a "new look" and the many goldies were cracking..... interesting. i remember a blonde tolex fender amp and someone had painted the tolex with black paint to make it look "new".... no one knew.

now for the wood, neck measurements and neck tilt angle....to see who is copying the original best Epi or Gibson?

<edit....Gibson...the woods on the Epi are either Alder top (highly graded Korean built) or the new Mahogany top (China Epi)....Original has the Mahogany body and Maple top....although painted wood? not sure how that works with the freq dampening?

Jimi has a good point though...over years and years and if someone keeps their gear, $2,000 ain't much out of 5yrs total income for example. And if the LOGO is important definately don't go for an off-brand....it'll eat you up overtime. Like Marrying a woman you didn't "reeeeeaaaaaaally" want. hahahaha
 

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A couple of other great resources are "The Gibson Les Paul Book" by Tony Bacon & Paul Day (GPI Books, 1993) and another website, http://www.gamercred.com/default.asp.

The Bacon & Day book is particularly useful in dating Norlin LPs, a period for which there is no serial number information available.
 
Yeah, everybody's right. A Gibson gets respect in some quarters. Nobody will scoff at you because you play a Gibson. As Jimi and others point out, it will tend to have good resale value. That's if you intend to sell your guitar. I agree with one thing Jimi and others said. Get the guitar you want. Just make sure you want the guitar, not the image of (or from) the guitar. I've owned a half dozen Gibsons, one of them a '72 Les Paul.

Today the only Les Paul I have left is a Samick/Epiphone deluxe that is tricked out a bit. Electrics/pups all replaced w/ classic 57's, killer neck job. Mostly I use it right here in the studio, where the mics have never cared that it's not a Gibson. I admit I wish it had an ebony fretboard, instead of rosewood. Me and my "not the real thing" get along fine. Regarding Gibsons, if I was looking to buy one today, I would definitely be looking at older ones. It's an icon of rock and roll, right? The old one is the real thing, and some of them are truly great guitars. In other words, get a good copy and modify it until it is as good as it can be, or buy the real thing, an old Gibson. Either one beats a new one from Nashville off the rack.-Richie

You either use a guitar to play, to impress somebody, or to impress yourself. I would happily shop for guitars blindfolded.. Get a Gibson (or two or three) if that's what you want. Just make sure that it is a good guitar, and it is the right guitar to play whatever the hell it is *you* want to play.-Richie
 
yeah Richard, the blindfold test is another topic.....the mics don't care.

The history is cool. imo. I never knew Gibson almost went bankrupt....and the part where they went SG only.. and Les Paul dewd said "screw off" that was a wild bit I never knew about him refusing to put his name on the SOLID GUITAR SG....:p.

a friend has a LesPaul SG junior....I'm gonna call him, think its a 62...original case (cheap cardboard like) its pretty cool it has the LesPaul logo on it I'm 90% sure... only one year or so of these apparently made with the SG with a LesPaul signature.

I just offered some dewd $150 for a mint Epi Korean Goldtop 56 (2004). He wants 300 with case. I said he can keep the case. I figure the pickups are worth $150 and probably the same pup's as in the $3000 56 RI.
As I understand Fender the pups are pretty much shipped in huge boxes to the assembly lines all over....not hand wound in these days of 10million guitars a month mentality...cost cutting.

why don't the copies just use frkn Maple tops like the Gibson LP's? Thats probably the biggest difference I could find. Doesn't seem that would be any harder than adding an Alder top?

The neck tilt angles are all over the place even for Gibsons own line, so thats a dead topic, or too complex for my mind.

I agree, if a person wants the LOGO AND the QUALITY of the golden years...search and save for a "vintage".....go all the way for the "real deal".
Seems it makes sense.
 
I would happily shop for guitars blindfolded.

That's the way...disclaimer here: I'm not a Les Paul fan, and I'm pretty agnostic when it comes to brands. I have the Gibson Les Paul Deluxe because a) it has a hell of a sound and b) a friend sold it to me for a very friendly price. I've had my share of mutts and thoroughbreds over the years, and this is the only one that sounds like me. In fact, I have shed all my other electric guitars now that I have this one (since 1997).

Of course, I'm not averse to basking in the reflected glory of the name, but -- just between you and me -- whatever it said on the headstock, I'd be just as happy.

When I play a bass, it's a Fender-brand Precision. Again, I've owned a lot of others, but this is the one that does it. I think Leo and Lester and Theodore made a lot of crucially good decisions and I'm the beneficiary. Particularly with basses, all the other ones I have owned have have an essential flaw, whether in putting too much emphasis on appearance, or faulty ergonomics, or inadequate tone, or simply by aiming for a style of playing that I'm not into.
 
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