Legality

[DonF]

Whoops! Posted too soon. Further down the page, you'll find this:

§ 110. Limitations on exclusive rights: Exemption of certain performances and displays

Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, the following are not infringements of copyright:

...

(4) performance of a nondramatic literary or musical work otherwise than in a transmission to the public, without any purpose of direct or indirect commercial advantage and without payment of any fee or other compensation for the performance to any of its performers, promoters, or organizers, if-

(A) there is no direct or indirect admission charge ....

---

I think that covers your first scenario.

 

[SGPIANOMAN]

so basically as long as one is not recieving any money for it, there is no real law breaking?

 

[DonF]

As long as no one is receiving money or other commercial advantage, it appears that performing a song in public is legal.

 

[SGPIANOMAN]

what other "commercial" gain can a person get besides money?

 

[HomeRec]

Okay, here we go:

Technically...

...chances are the creator of a covered song or a representative company owns the copyright to both the performance of the song (the version on the artist's CD), and the song itself. Therefore, it is illegal to perform/record a rendition of that copyrighted song or duplicate the song's recording without the permission of the copyright holder.

...however...

...chances are, unless you are profiting from, or detracting from the artist's/label's profits from the song, you won't have a problem. And even though you may profit from a (small-time) gig in which you play cover songs, there is (usually) no harm done to the song's copyright owner(s). In fact, you may even help them out by making people awarene of the song.

However, be careful with recordings. If it's small-time, not for profit, and just for fun, then you probably won't run into any problems. However, if your cover of a song is used to represent your band, you will most likely begin to encroach on the areas that would cause someone to take issue. In other words, no cover songs on demos without permission.

Hope this helps.

 

[MAD_EG]

Question

If my band played a song that we didn’t write, and then recorded it in the privacy of our practice area, but placed a 30 sec clip on our website just to let people know what we sound like, that would be illegal right? Also, what if we gave the original artists full credit and made it clear that we were not taking credit for writing the song or trying to make a profit from it, and recommended that they buy the original artist’s version, would that still be illegal?

 

[glynb]

There's the theory and the reality...

If my band played a song that we didn’t write, and then recorded it in the privacy of our practice area, but placed a 30 sec clip on our website just to let people know what we sound like, that would be illegal right? Also, what if we gave the original artists full credit and made it clear that we were not taking credit for writing the song or trying to make a profit from it, and recommended that they buy the original artist’s version, would that still be illegal?

Technicaly you should obtain permission from the song publishers/writers in order to feature a clip of the song on your website. However, you are unlikely to get any problems unless you become enormously popular and your use of the song is thereby drawn to the attention of the publisher. Even then, the worst that would most likely happen (not COULD happen, but MOST LIKELY) would be a threatening letter telling you to desist from using the clip immediately to which you would meakly comply and no harm done!

The worst that could happen is they sue you for lots of cash, but to go down that route they'd have to be confident that you had made lots of cash from using the song, and if you were in the position of making a lot of money, then why on earth are you featuring clips of other people's songs without permission in the first place?

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yes, it's all looney. In a live performance in a public venue (a club), they'll go after the club, if anyone, usually not the performer, because they know who has the money. Paying mechanicals on a recording can be dicey, because the Harry Fox agency, who fronts for most of the publishers, expects $.08 per copy per song, or $.01 per minute, whichever is greater, and they don't grant a mechanical license for less than 500 copies. For less than that, you need written permission from the copyright holder to waive, modify, or pay directly, the mechanicals.
The case of modifying the words or using song tracks in conjunction with other material is even more dicey, as that comes under the heading of a derivative work, and none of the info. about mechanicals apply. To adapt, modify, satirize, or use part of a copywrited work requires written consent from the copyright holder.
We ran into all of this with my first album, "Reunion". We covered "Summertime" by Ira Gershwin, for which we paid Harry Fox, which was a learning curve indeed. Our biggest pain was track #2, "Requiem", which does indeed have a simple 2 chord passage and a short phrase that could be argued to be derived from Paul Kantner's/Jefferson Airplane's 1967 song "Martha" from "After Bathing at Baxters". It's only 2 words and 2 measures. Short phrases and titles are not copyrightable, and "Requiem" does not rise to the level of a copyright infringement. That's our story, and we're sticking to it.-Richie

 

[groveralan]

What about samples?

Can I sample songs? If so for how long?
I am A mc/producer and not all the work I do is mine.
I make my own drums,bass,lyrics ect...but sometimes I sample small parts of old songs and loop them.How much trouble can I get in.

 

[DonF]

If you make a copy of even a tiny part of someone else's work without getting permission, you have violated the law and can get into lots of trouble. In reality, how much trouble you're likely to get into depends largely on how much attention you attract.

 

[groveralan]

I heard you can sample up to like 6 seconds and not have any trouble and the other thing is there are a lot of artists that will sample something and not mention it on there cd covers.

 

[DonF]

I heard you can sample up to like 6 seconds and not have any trouble

Urban legend. There are very few loopholes in the copyright laws.

and the other thing is there are a lot of artists that will sample something and not mention it on there cd covers.

Probably true. But mentioning it on the cd cover is not a legal requirement -- getting permission is.

 

[Richard Monroe]

The potential liability is $100,000 per CD. Not each copy, but each release. In general, if you are nobody with no money, no one cares. If you get successful, however, they can and may come after you.-Richie

 

[groveralan]

Thanx 4 the info guy's

 

[Flo' Dolo]

For all you legalese specialists (and experienced folks), wouldn't a compulsory license be what dude or anyone else would need to investigate to cover a song, do/use/make an interpolation, and so on? At least for starters? Maybe I got it twisted, I dunno...

Anyway, for those of you who may not know what I'm talking about, check here:
http://www.megalaw.com/top/copyright/17usc115.php

Oh yeah, as I understand it, putting "For Demo Purposes Only," or "Not For Sale," or whatever on a CD using other people's music, be it cover songs, or DJ'ed mixtapes doesn't protect the supplier/distributor of that product from being hella liable in court.

tick-tick-tick-tick...Time for some Slabador...

 

[DonF]

... wouldn't a compulsory license be what dude or anyone else would need to investigate to cover a song, do/use/make an interpolation, and so on? At least for starters? ...

Seems to me like your first choice would be to go through HFA or directly to the copyright owner. If you go the compusory route, there's a bit more paperwork to do. Remember that a mechanical license only gives you the right to make and distribute your recording of a song; you can't claim any rights to your arrangement as a derivative work, etc. You would own the copyright in your sound recording, though, and would therefore own the performance rights to it. (Somebody correct me if I'm wrong!)

 

[Flo' Dolo]

I thought you could simply notify the copyright owners of your intentions (maybe thru HFA?), and then pay the copyright owners the standard rate for jacking, uh, interpolating, uh, covering, uh, deriving from their shit (unless they notify you with different stipulations or something). I thought that was the whole thing with a compulsory license - notification & mandatory pay as set by whatever governing bodies/agencies. However, I'm no expert, but instead much closer to a fool. I get alot of help handling that kind of stuff for my own projects, so I may be way off. Just trying to help & learn...

Funny how all the random cats who lurk & post here who do know (or claim to) about shit like this are nowhere to be found...

 

[Flo' Dolo]

...The case of modifying the words or using song tracks in conjunction with other material is even more dicey, as that comes under the heading of a derivative work, and none of the info. about mechanicals apply. To adapt, modify, satirize, or use part of a copywrited work requires written consent from the copyright holder.
We ran into all of this with my first album, "Reunion". We covered "Summertime" by Ira Gershwin, for which we paid Harry Fox, which was a learning curve indeed. Our biggest pain was track #2, "Requiem", which does indeed have a simple 2 chord passage and a short phrase that could be argued to be derived from Paul Kantner's/Jefferson Airplane's 1967 song "Martha"... It's only 2 words and 2 measures. Short phrases and titles are not copyrightable, and "Requiem" does not rise to the level of a copyright infringement. That's our story, and we're sticking to it.-Richie

So what was the "learning curve" part? How/why was track 2 such a pain?

 

[distortedrumble]

thanks for the heads up....on some of that legalese.....now the thing i heard was if you come up with a riff or beat that was in another song and you never heard the other song, you dont have to pay the fees for it since it wasnt doesnt intentionally or with malice.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Well, the learning curve was actually finding the Harry Fox Agency, wading through being ignored by them (we be smallfry, indeed), figuring out that you have to pay the mechanicals on at least 500 copies, and how to actually get them to issue a mechanical license for Ira Gershwin's "Summertime".
The problem with "Requiem" (track#2), is that it is not a cover. If I were to play "Martha" by Paul Kantner formerly of Jefferson Airplane, I would pay the damn 8 cents a copy to Harry Fox and have done with it. The suits at RCA get their pittance, probably not even worth the overhead to cash the check, but I'm legal and cool with that. The problem is, "Requiem" borrows one recognizable 2 chord progression and 2 well timed words that an old JA enthusiast (or Al Schmitt, duh!) would recognize. If you do a work that is derivative, including satire, mechanical royalties don't apply, you need written permission from the copyright holder, in this case RCA, who *don't* have to give it to you. They can also squeeze you for money if they want to be pricks, or just tell you to go away.
And so we hired a lawyer as a consultant and thouroughly studied the 2 songs. Our conclusion- it's 2 major chords, a third apart, and the words, "Martha she...". Well you can't copyright titles or short phrases, or the use of the major third. In consultation, we decided that the song "Requiem" does not rise to the level of a copyright infringement. And- I wasn't going to cut a song I love that much from my project. It was educational for a neophyte producer.-Richie