Latency Problem

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MickeyC

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Folks,

I am new to this forum so G'day everyone.

I'm working with Cubase VST24 Version 3.7 and using an ISIS Sound card. It is all relatively new so I am going through some teething problems.

When I record an overdub on a new track it is recording ahead of the source track. It is becoming really annoying to manually adjust the parts.

I know this is pretty general but if someone could give me an idea where to start to solve this problem it would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

MickeyC
 
have you tried recording in any other type of multitracking software? How many tracks are you trying to record? I have the ISIS card too and had audio sync probs when starting out and turned out to be so simple , just that DMA wasnt activated, buss master i believe it known as in the pute world.. so check that cos its a real killer.... but ive just started using cubase and it seems to work really well with cubase ... hey mickey , u heard of guillemot bringing out any 2000 or NT drivers yet ...?? i cant seem to find anything about it so im presuming they havent.. anyway , good luck with the problem...
 
Spider thanks,

have I tried recording in any other type of multitracking software?
No I have a version of Logic platnum but as yet haven't got around to firing it up yet. I will though to see if the problem is in the card or the cubase software.

How many tracks am I trying to record?
I'm only recording one at a time and the second track comes out ahead of the original track.

DMA wasnt activated??????
At the risk of sounding stupid what is the DMA and how do I activate it?

Have I heard of guillemot bringing out any 2000 or NT drivers yet ...?
I haven't but I have a few sources so I'll see what I can dig up.

I'm hearing things like having to change buffer sizes????

There is a 93 millisecond latency using the Multimedia driver could that have anything to do with it. But wouldn't the latency be the other way around and the second track would be later, not infront of, the original track?

Cheers,
MickeyC
 
well as i only recently discovered , latency is more the delay between when u push a fader up on the monitor view and when u hear the change.. Mines at about 94 , so that all sounds good .. ISIS has some asio drivers , try to use them if u can (just under system , up the top on the right).
But hearing about you not having DMA activated i can almost be certain thats your problem .. Im not real well up on it , i know it stands for direct memory access and that most DAW's require it to function properly.. Under device manager in system properties.. have a look at the propertys of your harddrive , usual under disk drives (generic, something like that). You will see some options , eg. disconect , DMA .... etc... DMA , as long as your harddrive allows this ( i think its refered to buss mastering) , MUST be checked.... I know this from my own stuffup when i started out with the isis. I was recording drums at first , eight mics in total , but they kept recording out of sync with eachother... for ages i tried this and that with no success... I ended up installing another 128 mb ram (cos i thought the pc was struggling) .. Still no success i contacted guillemot in germany and a friendly chap gave me the advice about DMA , now for some reason everything i read about setting up a workstation mentions this , yet ironically before the propblem i never seemed to see it , oh well.. But that i think is definetly your problem. Try checking the box and then after you ok it , go back and make sure its still checked .... it might ask u to restart , do this but after youve restarted check to make sure its still checked(dma) .. it may take a few goes (dont know why this is) and if i remember correctly it gives you a warning that u should check with your hardware vendor to see if dma is supported .. basically if its not , once you restart DMA wont be checked , no matter how many times you do this it still wont stay checked after restarting.. Well try that and let me know how u go ... goodluck...
 
Latency Prob

Spider, You are a legend!!!! I found the DMA setting and checked it. It stayed checked after I rebooted. Anyway I ran a couple of checks in cubase and the problem was still there. So I experimented with the Drivers in System Setup. The driver I was using was the ASIO Maxi Studio ISIS this had the latency of 93 millisecs I tried the ASIO multimedia Driver and the latency changed to 750 millisecs however when I ran a test in cubase the problem was gone (I Think). (How can the latency be so high yet the audio still syncs in?)

Either way I had already tried all these different drivers before and it didn't help so it was definitely the DMA check. Your a life saver. Hopefully I can return the favour one day.

On the topic of the Drivers for Guillermot A friend of mine in Germany is getting back to me on that one. If anyone knows he will I can guarantee it. So I'll let you know as soon as I find out.
 
always glad to be of service , not a problem at all..
But thats weird about the latency issue , dont u think? Cos im using the exact same setup as u yet i run it with ISIS asio drivers and the latency is about what yours was before.. But hey as long as its working then i spose it doesnt matter , but would be interesting to find out.. Anyone else know about latency issues?? what and when it effects performance?? Well at least she's all happening now though , happy recording mickey...
 
The only performance latency is going to affect is when your mixing or just setting levels for a monitor mix. If you need to move a fader up to hear the result, it's nice when it's as close to instant as possible. Other than that, I can't see it effecting the number of tracks you record or general computer performance issues.

I find anything over 150mS intolerable for trying to mix, because you lose perspective(and patience) of what your trying to accomplish in the first place.

Sounds like the ISIS is still using ASIO 1 drivers, instead of the ASIO 2. I was getting the exact same figure - 97mS, but with the new drivers for my card (aardvark) I get 43mS.

Good call there Spider on the DMA!
 
cheers emeric ,
i spose when you went through what i did with a very similar problem your oh so happy to help someone else in the situation , cos really emeric imagine this .. youve just recorded an awsome drum take , eight tracks in total and it sounded choice .. on playback your devastated cos there 1)all out of sync with eachother and 2) several of the tracks would have errors leaving them useless unless u wanted to start cutting and pasting any decent parts.., not even guillemot (AUS) could tell me anything , they simply shrugged there shoulders and said "Dunno!"..as you may have found mickey, the guillemot team , well in Australia anyway, sux!!!.. I ended up talking to a "technician" from guillemot in germany i think it was ..well i was having trouble understanding some of his text anyway but a really nice guy, herve liberal his name was and the first thing he said was ensure DMA is checked on your hardrive ... I was like ," huh???? U mean after nine months of hell and billions of lost takes u tell me its a box i should have checked ???" i was both happy everything was cool and really pissed that it took so long to fix such a simple problem .. At the time i knew next to nothing about pcs and the whole problem taught me a heap about trouble shooting (no more, please),but now i think i can say that shes working pretty nicely ,
Hey emeric , whats with the asio 1 and asio 2 drivers ?? I have an asio isis driver , asio direct x (is this more stable for plugins , eg. on mixdown?) and a multimedia driver ...
So howz the pute going anyway mickey ?? she working good ?but things like that u should be able to make a quick call to the store u bought it , at worst take the pc down there and within the hour you should be back recording that cool tune... aaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!! just music shops , piss me right off sometimes... oh well ...

[Edited by Spider on 09-28-2000 at 11:10]
 
Spider, She's running well. The problem was the version of Cubase I was using was cracked so there was no technical support. I was flying solo except for you guys and some friends who knew a bit. I had it to try and see which program I liked better. I was using Version 3 on attari for ages but not being a Keyboard player I used to get annoyed and the midi guitar pickups just couldn't track properly. (but really there's no substitute for a Tele and a Twin anyway mic'd up). After we fixed the prob though I had a burst of energy and I went and 'officially' upgraded to Version 5. I realised I could cross grade with my attari dongle. Only cost $399 for the cross/up grade. So I'll keep you informed if the new features are worth it.

I would be interested to know about the Asio driver 1 and 2 thing as well.

Cheers, MickeyC
 
half the latency Mickey. $399, wow.. man. Hope you live in Canada. Full, no upgrade path version is $450.
 
Some ISIS tips and queries

Heya ppl, I just discovered this great site and thought I'd add my 2 bits worth in this thread first.

Yah Spider, nice call on the DMA bus mastering. Did you know that all HDDs and CDRs and CD ROMs in your system will work better together if they are ALL DMA enabled? (I only found that one last week)

I also use the ISIS card and have had HUGE problems getting going, the support sux as do the drivers. The 1.6 version ASIO driver seems to work better for me than the 1.8 version (bout4 more tracks or 2 to 4 plugs).

ASIO 2 will allow you to use the new Direct Monitoring feture in VST24 and 32 (WDM format). With this you can monitor through cubase with FX and minimal latecy in real time. There are rumors of Guillemot releasing ASIO2 in the next month but that ain't official and they've never delivered before ie; Win ME drivers. I ain't holding my breath.

I saw you said that the multimedia driver was more stable for mixing than the native ISIS one. I aggree, but when you load the ISIS driver does it make the CPU performance over light come on, even with a blank arrangement? Mine does and it pisses me majorly! It also pops and crackles once I start to load up on the DX plugs. As a result I am using the Multimedia driver almost exclusively but the 500+ ms latency is a pain.

I still get problems with sync sometimes, but only when I'm running too many FX or tracks.......

As for FX check this out, FREE verb! literally and it knox the sox off any others I've tried, waves, timeworks, native ect. Really low CPU usage, anyway I like it http://home.onet.co.uk/~jzracc/plugins/index.htm

Can you get the ISIS to bus to outboard FX then back into cubase without feedback? I've tried all sorts of different settings but as soon as I try to hear what I'm doing ie; putting eq on a drum submix (and you NEED to monitor this)I get this horrible feedback, I tried on the ISIS based forums but no-one really uses Cubase there.

Yah I have had the same trouble with Maxbass, but I think it doesn't give more than it takes in CPU so I don't use it, try Magneto instead with the 30ips setting mmmhmmm FAT AS! Great for Kits too but Quadra Fuzz is my fav there.

Anyways greetings from Melbourne and I hope there's something you can use amongst my twaddle.

Bones
 
I found this post while looking around.
there is a faulty ISIS getting around.
It has the number 331 on one of the main chips.
But don't be fooled I have a 331 chip with a blue capacitor as well. If it has this capacitor it is FINEand DANDY.
The trick is to find out if it is there. I think it is bridging r56 and r57 .It's near the edge of the sound card.
I rang up sound-music in melbourne ,aussie to find this.
I could be wrong on the bridging numbers but remember this--
331 with capacitor =good
331 without capacitor=Bad.
I know of a guy who had the sus one they sent one to replace it ,no worrys
 
Peter thanks for the tip I will have a look at the card and see what chip it is using and which capacitor. Sounds interesting. Cheers Mickey C
 
no worrys

just remember to get someone who knows the card(maybe call guillemot). I sent my card back telling isis that it was faulty ,because all I heard about was the 331 chip.The capacitor makes the difference.Next time I have my card out I'll let you know where it is...:)
 
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