Laptop with Software or DAW?

[Ivorykeys]

I have some OK equipment & want to build a recording set-up. I have a keyboard workstation, studio monitors, amp, 12 ch mixer, EQ, effects box, mic. If you had $1,000, would you invest it in a laptop & some software or a DAW?

 

[Crumbles]

A laptop and software is a DAW

 

[Ivorykeys]

Hello watermelon,

I guess I was referring to one of those all-in-one units with the CD burner, on-board mixer/EQ/effects/etc...,. Given that I have all of this external stand-alone stuff already, is there any argument for going with one of those units, like the Yamaha AW1600, Korg D888, Tascam DP-01FX, Roland VS-200CD, etc....

...Or is it wiser to get a laptop for $500, with some type of interface to use all of the existing equipment?

Ivorykeys

 

[ssscientist]

A laptop that costs $500 is not going to be up to the job of recording. You're going to need a Firewire or USB soundcard, appropriate software and a whole bottle of asprin before you're finished with the setup and ready to record your first note.

I have the Yamaha AW16g, which is the older and smaller brother of the AW1600. Not only has my machine been consistently reliable but it has EQ and Dynamics on every channel and sounds just great. The advantage the AW1600 has over mine is a USB port for direct connection to a computer and since I use a computer in my musical work too, tying the two together in such a direct way would be a consummation devoutly to be wished.

If I wanted to record my music with a minimum of fuss and I had $1000 to spend I would get the AW1600. I've always been amazed by the affordability to power ratio in my machine, and the AW1600 ratchets that up even more.


.

 

[Ivorykeys]

Looks like a nice unit, ssscientist. I did not mention that the mixer that I have been using for live use is an Onyx 1220 & the FireWire I/O Card is available for $400. I think it comes with their Tracktion Audio and MIDI Software, which may be limited but good enough to cut my teeth on. But definitely not as integrated as the AW1600, and certainly not as portable, as well as the laptop is still the wildcard$. I imagine one can use a dedicated effects box if the Yamaha was inadequate (just thinking out loud).

Ivorykeys

 

[wheelema]

Given that I am anti-laptop for recording... actually I'm anti-laptop for most everything except where a laptop is absolutely necessary... let me say that after you subtract the cost of the software you aren't going to have much of a laptop. However, you can get a fairly kick ass desktop for recording. Since the cost of the software is unknown... and thus your budget is unknown... let me give you one example based on the premise that you have about $700 to work with before tax.

MWAVE E68-H (SILVER/BLACK) MIDDLE TOWER W/430W ATX POWER SUPPLY 4x5.25" 1x3.5" 5x3.5"(hidden) W/ FRONT USB 2.0 CONNECTOR & 120mm CASE FAN x 1EXTRA 120mm FAN(BLACK)
$49.50
SKU: BA20566 -BA15834

ASUS M2NPV-VM nVIDIA GeForce 6150 CHIPSET SERIAL ATA300 MICRO ATX FORM FACTOR 1xPCI-E(X16)/1xPCI-E(X1)/2xPCI/4xDDR2 W/INTEGRATED VGA,SATA2 RAID,LAN(Gb),USB 2.0 & AUDIO (CPU TYPE:AMD - SOCKET AM2)
AMD ATHLON 64 3200+ - ORLEANS
MWAVE 1GB DDR2 533
$263.97
SKU: BA22827 -BA22669 -BA20518

MS WIRELESS OPTICAL DESKTOP 700 KEYBOARD & OPTICAL MOUSE USB (Black) (#65X-00024) (Retail)
$34.91
SKU: 4101046

WD 160GB 1600JS SATA300 8MB 7200RPM (Bare drive)*Requires SATA Data CableNO EXT.SATA ENCLOSURE
$59.90
SKU: AA36130

MICROSOFT WINDOWS XP PROFESSIONAL W/SP2 #E85-04135(DSP/OEM)*Must be Purchased w/Hardware!!*
$130.90
SKU: AA15070

SONY DWQ-120A BLACK 16X SUPER ALL-WRITE DVDRW DRIVE W/SW (White box)
$30.90
SKU: AA42680

ACER 17" AL1706AB 1280X1024 500:1 8MS (Black) (Retail) (*Regular $160 - $10 Mwave Instant Discount = $150, While Supplies Last!)
$149.87
SKU: 4124002

Total $720

This gives you a AMD Athlon 64 3200+ with a gig of DDR2 RAM on a ASUS motherboard with integrated nVidia 6150 graphics. A 160GB of hard disk drive, a Sony DVD/CD rewritable drive, a 17" LCD display, wireless keyboard, mouse, and a copy of Windows XP Pro.

A Dell with the same specs (Dimension E521) would set you back $803. Note that this system does not use DDR2 RAM so there is not quite the upgrade path you would have with the roll-your-own. Now, in the interest of full disclosure this might be the better deal for you as (a) you don't have to put it together and (b) there is warranty service behind it.

So you know where I am coming from in regards to laptops, understand that while I own one they are fragile, underpowered compared to a desktop at the same price point, and can and will grow legs and walk if you aren't careful. A LOT of people underprice the cost of laptop ownership because they never figure in the cost of extended warranties and insurance and these items are essential if you are going to buy a laptop. DO NOT BUY IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD THE INSURANCE!!!!

 

[altitude909]

which may be limited but good enough to cut my teeth on

I wouldn't say its limited at all. Very solid software and scales perfectly from the beginner on up.

If you are just looking for recording, the all in one boxes really cant be beat

 

[Ivorykeys]

wheelema,
Thanks for the laptop vs. desktop comparison, I'll definitely keep it for future reference. You are correct about the power/pricepoint ratio. Problem is that I do not have the space for a desktop unfortunately. And I wanted to have the option of field recording my gigs, so allbeit, I still do not want to lug a laptop around for the very reasons you list (fragile, legs, etc....), but the portability still leaves the option open. My real issue here is, given the fact that I have all of this stand-alone equipment that is reasonably good quality (EQ, Effects Box, & the ONYX) & not very old, whether I should get the Firewire option for the Mackie ONYX, along with a laptop (from the looks of things, I may have to increase my budget for the laptop), or forget about all of the stuff I already have & just get an all-in-one digital recorder. I hate these types of decisions.

altitude909,
I was referring to the software that comes with the ONYX Firewire package that may be limited, but I do not really know since I've never really recorded via software. The reason I mention that it might be limited, is because I went to a ProTools seminar at the local music store, and they were talking purchase number$ over $2K, so if Mackie is giving the software away for free, I've got to think that it's got it's limitations compared to the big boys. I agree that the all-in-one box will meet my needs.

Ivorykeys

 

[studiomaster]

Why not get a firewire interface?

 

[altitude909]

I was referring to the software that comes with the ONYX Firewire package that may be limited

Thats the nice thing about Mackie, you get the full version with their hardware.

The reason I mention that it might be limited, is because I went to a ProTools seminar at the local music store, and they were talking purchase number$ over $2K, so if Mackie is giving the software away for free, I've got to think that it's got it's limitations compared to the big boys. I agree that the all-in-one box will meet my needs.

Lol. u swallowed their marketing BS hook line and sinker. Digidesign charges what they do because ppl will pay it. What they are pitching u is pro tools LE, not the real pro tools that studios use. Flagship protools (HD) rigs can run up to $100k easily. LE is no different than any modern DAW software in the sense that it uses the host systems resources for mixing and plugins. HD has it's own hardware for that which makes it the "industry standard" that it is today.

Yes, LE has the benefit of being protools so you can easily take your project to a big studio and it's a good way to break into PT but a good audio interface and any software (including shareware and free ones) will give you almost if not identical results as LE sound wise (and about a third of the cost). Usability wise, its more about finding the right software for how you work. I find Tracktion to be very good in the sense that there is very little menu digging and the signal flow is laid out in a very obvious and easy to understand way. The HUGE advantage to tracktion is the learning curve though, it will guide you through pretty much the whole process if you want it to. And having worked for a fair amount of time on a PT rig (it was the older v6 on MIX/TDM hardware, so i cant really speak for 7) and using tracktion, I think for someone who is starting out, Tracktion will get you results alot faster than PT. If you outgrow Tracktion, the skills you learn in tracktion are the fundamentals of any DAW software so moving on to something else will be easy.

 

[ssscientist]

I imagine one can use a dedicated effects box if the Yamaha was inadequate

Yes.

Instructions are in the manual.

.

 

[Ivorykeys]

All makes sense regarding Tracktion's quicker learning curve, I'm up for that. I don't know enough about either (or any) software to comment on limitations. I'm sure it would suffice for anything I'd need it for.


Again, the purpose of this thread was to weigh the pros & cons of working with my hard-earned existing equipment that I use routinely for live gigs by purchasing the Firewire upgrade ($400) & laptop (?$) vs. scrapping it (from a recording standpoint anyway, i.e., just using it for live gigs) & purchasing a new all-in-one for recording.

Ivorykeys

 

[TelePaul]

A laptop that costs $500 is not going to be up to the job of recording. You're going to need a Firewire or USB soundcard, appropriate software and a whole bottle of asprin before you're finished with the setup and ready to record your first note.

I have the Yamaha AW16g, which is the older and smaller brother of the AW1600. Not only has my machine been consistently reliable but it has EQ and Dynamics on every channel and sounds just great. The advantage the AW1600 has over mine is a USB port for direct connection to a computer and since I use a computer in my musical work too, tying the two together in such a direct way would be a consummation devoutly to be wished.

If I wanted to record my music with a minimum of fuss and I had $1000 to spend I would get the AW1600. I've always been amazed by the affordability to power ratio in my machine, and the AW1600 ratchets that up even more.


.

Hey not to hijack this, but can i ask what software you use when you go down the road of software recording? i presume it just makes for simpler editing?

 

[Ivorykeys]

Hey not to hijack this, but can i ask what software you use when you go down the road

No problem TelePaul,

I'll be using the Tracktion software that comes with the Mackie ONYX firewire package. It's free, and from what I've been told, the learning curve is very quick, which is what I like since I'm not that recording-savvy (yet).

Ivorykeys

 

[ssscientist]

Hey not to hijack this, but can i ask what software you use when you go down the road of software recording? i presume it just makes for simpler editing?

Ivory Keys, I'm pretty sure his post was directed at me.

Editing on a computer makes every move take less time. I'm enough of a geek that I timed myself editing two projects of comparable sizes on the computer and on the standalone recorder, and even including the step in which I blow the files down to the CD drive inside the Yamaha recorder and put them back when I'm finished, and the computer won hands down. I'm looking at selling my beloved AW16g in favor of the newer AW1600 just for the USB port.

Here's a list of the three major programs I use.

For stereo WAV editing I have a love/hate reationship with WaveLab. I love that it can run VST plugins but hate the way the user interface is constructed. If you put down a tool for a split second you have to go all the way around the virtual block to pick it up again. I have a copy of Audacity on my computer too that I sometimes use for small stuff.

The program I use for time stretching is Ableton Live. I have no complaints about this program whatsoever. It does what I want it to do and let's me get on with my project. Which is exactly what is needed from any computer app.

For rendering softsynths and softsamplers to WAV I usually bring up Tracktion. It too does the job.

.