Kind of a Punk Rock Song.

[CMolena]

He said that the recording of your drums was shit, not the performance.

I know that. What I dont know is why does he think that? If its only because he thinks so, I cant do nothing with that...you see? I never meant to start an argument of who is more perfect than who, I just asked for clarity in the answers that were given.

 

[Greg_L]

I never compared myself to Keith Moon, man, I just cited an imperfect drummer. I would never compare myself to a genius.

Keith Moon was not imperfect. He was perfectly perfect in that he did what he did, exactly the way only he could do it, and was perfect for that band. He didn't intentionally get sloppy to fit some genre idea. He got sloppy at times because he was a natural fucking maniac.

Yes he did suggested better mic techs, but thats about it.

Is that not enough? Do you need me to come set them up for you too? Would you like me to play your drums while I'm at it?

I usually hear nice arguments when it comes to critics, not "I think your drumming sounds like shit". Even if it does sound like shit I think thats a vain argument and up to debate. Your presumption of "better or worse drum tracks than you" demonstrates that. I posted it to hear criticism and for you to suposedly point out why it sounds like a mess in the first place.

It sounds like a mess because it is a mess. I don't know what more you need. How can I make it easier for you to understand? It's phasey. Ugly. Distant. Sloppy. I'll give you some basic ideas - tune them better, mic them better, play them better. Those are the three foolproof places you can start making your improvements - even in a laundry room. If you don't agree, then fine. No problem. Just disregard my critique. I don't care. I don't get anything out of this. But you asked for feedback, and I gave you some. And this will be the last time I try to help you, so win for both of us.

 

[Bubba po]

What I take away from this is the fact that when you make suggestions like "You should try this mic technique", or "you might want to consider tuning your drums this way", or " a better room might help", they really have no effect on a certain kind of user. They have often built a fortification of their own self-importance and only harsh words will get through.

 

[Greg_L]

What I take away from this is the fact that when you make suggestions like "You should try this mic technique", or "you might want to consider tuning your drums this way", or " a better room might help", they really have no effect on a certain kind of user. They have often built a fortification of their own self-importance and only harsh words will get through.

This is why I don't even bother much anymore.

Just plain old good fundamental recording techniques are a dead art to the home recorder crowd these days.

 

[Bubba po]

I know that. What I dont know is why does he think that? If its only because he thinks so, I cant do nothing with that...you see? I never meant to start an argument of who is more perfect than who, I just asked for clarity in the answers that were given.

You could do no worse than reading Greg L's guide to recording rock drums for beginners. It's a sticky in the Drum forum. Does he have to write all this stuff out every time somebody makes a rubbish drum recording?

Sometimes I take issue with Greg's dismissive and overly combative, harsh interactions with newbies, but the fact is he helped me to learn how to record decent live drums. I'm still on that learning curve, but getting there.

 

[CMolena]

Fuck I dont think my mix is a rock-opera or something like that. I dont think that my mix is flawless and I never said I'm not opened to critics.

Greg_L is mean to noobs because maybe someone was mean to him, haha...I'm kidding...I know what he meant when he said the drums not being perfect. I just usually hear comments like "you should cut this" or "point the OH closer so its no so roomy".

I'm just not afraid to debate whenever someone tries to be bigger than big over me.

You know what, I'll take your point in better mic placement, that will do it, thanks.

 

[Bubba po]

You know what, I'll take your point in better mic placement, that will do it, thanks.

And better room treatment, and better drum heads, and better tuning. I don't think anybody wants you to skulk off with your tail between your legs, they want to help you make better recordings. Some people take advice right off the bat, but some people need to be taken down a few pegs before they will even listen. I think I'm a bit of both.

 

[Armistice]

I think if you get a better distortion on the vocal that could work well, but that one you're using's a bit cheap/digital... but you know that. Agree the drums are a bit sloppy in a couple of places and the snare sound needs more definition - it's a bit "cardboard box" for want of a better term.

As for the arguing - we sort of take it as read here that people are trying to just do good recordings, and not "good recordings considering the drums are in a laundry" or "good recordings considering I only use amp sims" and "good recordings considering I hate my voice" and other conditional "good considering" comments ... there's a mine of information here and lots of helpful people who've been on the path you're on. Don't fight them is my advice, use them.

It's hard sometimes, especially if you put a lot into something, to be told it's actually not that good, sonically. We've all been there...

Anyway, really liked the tune... bit of work with drums and the vocal and I think you've got a good song there... keep 'em coming.

 

[CMolena]

And better room treatment, and better drum heads, and better tuning. I don't think anybody wants you to skulk off with your tail between your legs, they want to help you make better recordings. Some people take advice right off the bat, but some people need to be taken down a few pegs before they will even listen. I think I'm a bit of both.

Yeah, I agree with both of you in recording right since the source. I'm a HUGE fan of this mindset, really.

I think Greg wanted me to fuck off, because I heard shitty at least 30 times. And even if he is right, I dont think that does anything.

But I get it, I'm a noob and I should study more and more, and I will because I love recording.

Just dont ask me to eat shit and smile.

 

[Greg_L]

I think Greg wanted me to fuck off,

That's not true at all. If I wanted you to fuck off, I'd say so. It's not like I won't when I feel like it.

I listened to your song because I like punk music and punk recordings. I thought you had some problems and told you so because you asked for that kind of feedback. I didn't want you to fuck off, I wanted you to do better.

Just clearing the air.

 

[4tracker]

You could do no worse than reading Greg L's guide to recording rock drums for beginners. It's a sticky in the Drum forum. Does he have to write all this stuff out every time somebody makes a rubbish drum recording?

There's a real problem with this logic, because Greg had enough time and energy to show up and tell the kid he sucks. Yet, he doesn't have the time or energy to link him to an actual productive thread about recording drums "properly" (debatable if such a concept exists given the history of music).

 

[CMolena]

There's a real problem with this logic, because Greg had enough time and energy to show up and tell the kid he sucks. Yet, he doesn't have the time or energy to link him to an actual productive thread about recording drums "properly" (debatable if such a concept exists given the history of music).

Yeah, that is basically what I meant...I never said his ideas about how a drum kit should sound are bad or something like that...It would be completely preponent of my part to say that.

I just asked for feedback...but nevermind, sometimes we got to read between the lines.

 

[Greg_L]

There's a real problem with this logic, because Greg had enough time and energy to show up and tell the kid he sucks. Yet, he doesn't have the time or energy to link him to an actual productive thread about recording drums "properly" (debatable if such a concept exists given the history of music).

1) I never told the kid he sucks

2) I feel a little weird about pointing people to my own thread. I wrote it to help people, but I always kind of hope they stumble on to it themselves or someone else points them to it. I rarely send anyone there myself because it seems a little too self-serving, even for me.

3) There are many ways to record drums properly. Drums that sound good were recorded properly. My thread just talks about some basic stuff and techniques. It's not a bible, it's not the definitive end-all-be-all manual for recording drums. But there's nothing wrong about it either. Maybe even you yourself, the defender of all things mediocre, could get something from it. I hope you can.

 

[CMolena]

1) I never told the kid he sucks

2) I feel a little weird about pointing people to my own thread. I wrote it to help people, but I always kind of hope they stumble on to it themselves or someone else points them to it. I rarely send anyone there myself because it seems a little too self-serving, even for me.

3) There are many ways to record drums properly. Drums that sound good were recorded properly. My thread just talks about some basic stuff and techniques. It's not a bible, it's not the definitive end-all-be-all manual for recording drums. But there's nothing wrong about it either. Maybe even you yourself, the defender of all things mediocre, could get something from it. I hope you can.

Dont feel weird about it. Any info concerning improvements, I wont think twice in checking it out. I just felt a little weird when you said its sounds shitty and stuff...lol. But its okay man, no hard feelings.

 

[4tracker]

Okay fair enough, but that dude defending you implied it was a time and effort thing.

Yes, the drums can sound much better, in theory (maybe not depending on the room and gear). I've pointed that out to the OP in the past and told him to dampen the room and pointed him to some good, cheap mics. So you aren't wrong, just kind of ridiculous in how you came at him over it -- like a vulture, buddy, like a vulture. I don't think anyone should blow smoke up asses, but come on, there's decency. Just say "the drums sound bad, here's how to record them".

I didn't even care too much about the bad drums because the spirit of the recording is there and on one level I can imagine some of that gets lost if the kit suddenly sounds like Neal Peart. As is, it has a garage rock rawness. He can probably do better, yeah, but I'd hope it doesn't cost the spirit.

 

[Greg_L]

Dont feel weird about it. Any info concerning improvements, I wont think twice in checking it out. I just felt a little weird when you said its sounds shitty and stuff...lol. But its okay man, no hard feelings.

Cool, no hard feelings. I did mean it when I said I think it sounds shitty. That was no lie. I think it's terrible. But I also KNOW you can improve it! But you have to do the work. Do your research, read twice as much as you type, and try things out for yourself. No one is born knowing this stuff, and the best learning you can do is learning for yourself.

 

[Greg_L]

Okay fair enough, but that dude defending you implied it was a time and effort thing.

Yes, the drums can sound much better, in theory (maybe not depending on the room and gear). I've pointed that out to the OP in the past and told him to dampen the room and pointed him to some good, cheap mics. So you aren't wrong, just kind of ridiculous in how you came at him over it -- like a vulture, buddy, like a vulture. I don't think anyone should blow smoke up asses, but come on, there's decency. Just say "the drums sound bad, here's how to record them".

I didn't even care too much about the bad drums because the spirit of the recording is there and on one level I can imagine some of that gets lost if the kit suddenly sounds like Neal Peart. As is, it has a garage rock rawness. He can probably do better, yeah, but I'd hope it doesn't cost the spirit.

---------- Update ----------

Group hugs?
...or...group jam?

I get "the spirit" of the thing. I'm not at all suggesting that he have some pristine quantized super perfect Foo Fighter drum sounds. But these don't work. Not even for a "garage" sound. Why? Well I didn't want to get into all this, but okay. Suppose this was an actual garage recording. Everything in a garage, right? The instruments, good or bad, should sound like they're coming from the same space. We don't have that here. There's no cohesiveness in the mix which makes the bad drums stand out even more. You got super loud gritty guitars and bass right in your face, and then behind all of that there are these weak, flimsy, boxy, phasey, roomy sounding drums banging away. For a basic guitar/bass/drum "punk" mix, there's plenty of room in the sonicsphere to have everything present and accounted for. This isn't some weepy jazz jam, this is an aggressive punk recording. We don't need no light tapping afterthought drums. Get those fuckers loud and proud. Recording the drums well is ground zero for a powerful mix, even from a laundry room or garage.

 

[Greg_L]

And here's some positivity for you just to show that I mean no harm......Kudos for at least trying to use real drums. They're hard to deal with, I know. But goddamit, bless you my son for giving it a go instead of reaching for the nearest lameware drum plug-in. Keep working with those real drums.

 

[CMolena]

What do you mean by lame plugins?...

Lol, I'm joking.

Thats okay, I'll try to post a remixed version of this...maybe I can polish it up in the mix.

I wont compresses the hell out of it and never trigger and sample them...I'll take the blessing.

 

[rayc]

Yep, drums just don't work - sounds like someone playing along in their room to a recording.
Doesn't actually sound punk to me though the guitars aren't bad - the change from verse guitar to chorus is very abrupt - the verse gtr sounds almost as distant as the drums.
The recording sounds like an "arty" take on punk. Attempted style without substance & the riff is more rock than punk.
The rhythm section really isn't happening & it should provide the substance if not the abuse.
Vocals - the distortion sounds very ITB. Try something more along the tape saturation line.
The vox are a bit inconsistent in terms of levels.