kick drum trigger pad advice

[antichef]

As I've made painfully clear in other posts, I'm slowly putting together a drum set. I will mic this set primarily, but for the time being, I don't want to get a real kick drum -- my thought is to get a real pedal (with the Tama Iron Cobra being in the lead for that) so that I can keep using it later, and a velocity-sensitive kick drum trigger pad that I would hit with it -- this would likely be the only midi-triggered part of the set.

I'm looking for the cheapest decent way to send velocity-sensitive kick drum midi info powered by a real pedal to my DAW, preferably for less that $100 -- as I've been looking, it seems like I'm either doomed to get a whole controller/kit sort of arrangement, possibly even including a specialized pedal (blowing the budget and providing a lot of non-kick-drum functionality that doesn't interest me) or go with a simple on/off work-around that would not provide velocity info. Has anyone been through this? Any DIY approaches (e.g. 2x4 and a midi trigger and duct tape sort of thing)?

 

[Farview]

Does it have to be midi? The physical trigger itself is velocity sensitive, the sound module or midi converter is responsible for converting the signal from the trigger to midi and include the velocity.

If you are just using it for recording, you could just plug the trigger pad into your preamp and record it like you would a mic. There are a number of plugins like Drumagog that will use that signal to trigger a sample in the DAW.

If you do need midi, there are a number of plugins that will convert the trigger signal to midi data in the DAW.

If you intend to use this at live shows, a drum brain of some kind is the only option. An Alesis DM5 is a decent unit that can be bought on Ebay for very little money.

 

[antichef]

If you intend to use this at live shows, a drum brain of some kind is the only option. An Alesis DM5 is a decent unit that can be bought on Ebay for very little money.

Heh, fortunately, the public will be safe from me trying something this for the foreseeable future -- thanks for setting me straight on what the trigger output would be. It does need to be midi at some point, but that could happen in the DAW, I suppose, and so I think I see what you're saying.

Any specific suggestions for cheap triggers like this (which I could merely plug into a preamp and then record analog style and use the recording to trigger a midi track)?

 

[Farview]

Just about anything will work. There are piezo things that you can get a radio shack and stick them to a piece of wood. The big hurdle will be mounting the trigger on something that you can attach your pedal to.

I would try ebay. All triggers work the same so you can get whatever you find and can afford. There will not be a difference in signal quality, although there might be a difference in the construction of the thing the trigger is on.

 

[KineticSound]

^ What farview said.

Also keep in mind that if you find something like a Roland KD-7 or similar (read: inverted gum pad), you'll need a special beater for your pedal. Look for listings where the beater is included.

Also, to clarify for others reading this post, what we're talking about is not really a MIDI trigger; we're talking about piezo-style triggers that output a passive analog signal. This signal can be captured by a recording device and may subsequently be used to trigger samples, or may be converted to MIDI data using a plugin as farview noted.

What most people are talking about when they refer to "MIDI Drum Triggering" are in fact analog triggers that are input to a drum brain, such as one of many from Roland, Alesis, etc. Those drum brains then convert the analog signals into MIDI output data.

 

[antichef]

Just following up - thanks again to everyone. Yesterday I bought a $3 piezo from Radio Shack, and drilled a couple of holes in an 18" length 2x4 that I found - one opposite where the beater would hit the board, and the other on top the board -- both are connected with a smaller internal hole.

I put the piezo in first hole, ran the wires through to the other hole and soldered them to a 1/4" female jack that I had, which is now embedded in the second hole on top. I caulked these things into place (being careful not to get caulk on the internal connectors of the jack). I screwed a strong deck screw horizontally near the base of the 2x4 and used the clamp on the kick pedal to secure the 2x4 to the pedal frame (there have got to be better approaches to this - I think I've read a couple on the board here).

I plugged in a guitar cable to the jack and ran that to a HiZ input on my interface. Works! (and sounds better than some kick drum tracks kidding. not really.) The main problem will likely be durability, so I'm sure build a version 2 at some point (and after I save up another $5 or so ), but for now things are good.

 

[jamesduysen]

Just following up - thanks again to everyone. Yesterday I bought a $3 piezo from Radio Shack, and drilled a couple of holes in an 18" length 2x4 that I found - one opposite where the beater would hit the board, and the other on top the board -- both are connected with a smaller internal hole.

I put the piezo in first hole, ran the wires through to the other hole and soldered them to a 1/4" female jack that I had, which is now embedded in the second hole on top. I caulked these things into place (being careful not to get caulk on the internal connectors of the jack). I screwed a strong deck screw horizontally near the base of the 2x4 and used the clamp on the kick pedal to secure the 2x4 to the pedal frame (there have got to be better approaches to this - I think I've read a couple on the board here).

I plugged in a guitar cable to the jack and ran that to a HiZ input on my interface. Works! (and sounds better than some kick drum tracks kidding. not really.) The main problem will likely be durability, so I'm sure build a version 2 at some point (and after I save up another $5 or so ), but for now things are good.

Ha! Nice work. Very inventive! I use the line output on a kick sensor from a roland-v set and take that straight into drumagog. So if you are looking for a more permanent solution you might try that. But hey, if its not broken don't fix it! Sounds like you're doing great.

 

[dintymoore]

There's are those piezos in smoke alarms and old microwaves for free.

I mounted one in a 2x6, added a piece of angle aluminum to mount the pedal, and strapped it to a concrete block.

There's no reason it won't be durable - I opened a Tama trigger and it was the same..

 

[cephus]

OK, I guess this is what I was looking for.

I built a trigger out of a decent used pearl bass drum pedal. I turned the beater around backwards so that it swings toward the foot plate. I mounted a triangular hardwood block from my kid's toybox to the base where the clamp that attaches to the bass drum hoop was. I screwed a rubber foot from an old cassette deck to that and used the piezo from some radio shack buzzer I had in the garage. I used a few varying sized O-rings to position and dampen at and then screwed a piece of thin plexiglass over top of it as a batter head. worked great to trigger my DM5. Much better to me than the rubber pad that came with the kit.

However:

After a year, it quit working. The lead came desoldered from the piezo. I had to tear it all apart and I am replacing the piezo.

What do you use to keep the mechanical shock experienced by a percussion instrument from breaking the solder to the leads? Should the trigger be isolated from the batter "head" and just turn up the sensitivity? I thought that would cause alot of false triggering.

If anyone has made these kind of small, non-drum triggers, I would love some advice for keeping the wire connected for longer than 11 months. I bet it broke after using it 20 times. It was an elegant design, though.

 

[cephus]

Here is what the contraption looks like.

 

[Farview]

The painful truth is, the real ones crap out after a while too. I only use them once in a while in the studio, but I have to replace at least one trigger unit a year. And those are the ones that clamp onto the head of a real drum, not ones that get hit directly.

They are just fragile things that get beaten to death eventually. The best advice I could think of is designe it so you can easily replace the piezo.