Keys Newbie Has Lots of Questions

  • Thread starter Thread starter Low Country
  • Start date Start date
L

Low Country

New member
Hello,

I browsed through the archives for about 30 minutes, but haven't been able to come up with any definitive answer for all of my questions.

I'm a guitarist, but I thought I would try a keyboard on some of my personal recordings. I don't need anything fancy, just a couple acoustic piano sounds, and a B3 organ would be nice (I play flok/rock/blues/country). I would use it mostly for low-pitch rhythm tracks/bass lines. For the kind of thing I am doing, a $100 Wal-Mart keyboard would probably be fine. But before I go get one, I wanted to ask about MIDI keyboards. I guess you get unlimited variety with them, but do they sound better in a recording than a personal keyboard? I use Cool Edit, so I would have to be able to listen to my recording with headphones while overdubbing the keys, is this possible with MIDI? How costly is a basic MIDI setup? I have a factory SoundMAX Digital Audio card, which I don't think has a MIDI port, is there such a thing as a USB MIDI keyboard? And lastly, do you think MIDI would be appropriate for my needs as opposed to a personal keyboard?


I know these are very basic questions, and I apologize if I'm wasting your time.
 
Take a look at the Roland RS-5. It's a few hundred USD but has great sounds for the price. As far as the sound difference on recording: the difference between night and day. BTW, most personal keyboard are equipped with MIDI these days. I'm not familiar with Cool Edit, as to whether it records audio or MIDI sequences or both. Either way, you will be able to hear what you previously recorded without a problem, just a slight difference in your setup. A basic MIDI setup is very inexpensive - just a keyboard and a MIDI interface if you already have Cool Edit. If Cool Edit does not record MIDI sequences you will not be using MIDI at all so you don't need to worry about it (although you may want to get an external or software sequencer if you are not exactly a stellar keyboard player). You won't be using the Soundmax card with the keyboard - you will want a USB or firewire MIDI interface. Check out the Midiman line at http://www.midiman.net
As to the last question, do yourself a favor and don't get a personal keyboard unless you are getting one of the high-end ones that are withing spitting distance of pro anyway. I hope I havent confused you beyond belief by now - good luck with your purchase.
 
I used MIDI many, many years ago, but alas.. nothing has changed. ;) Once you get into it MIDI is a very handy addition to most music gear.

For starters I would suggest on the midi the following.

1) USB to MIDI adapter (about $40.00)
2) Cakewalk Pro9 (Sorry, I don't use Cooledit)
3) Synth (I would check at a local music store and see what you like and from what company. I tried MANY and one would have better sounds then the other though the features like buttons and what-not will perhaps be appealing from brand to brand.)
4) Shop around! Look at places like garage sales and the music shops used gear. For a few bucks less (or sometimes a few hundred less) you can get a nice synth with perhaps a $30.00 repair charge.

MIDI (Musical Instrument Digital Interface) will only connect your synth to the computer. You would still need something to record the sound which I'm assuming by your post you have.

When recording into something like Cakewalk, you will be recording the notes. This is great as Rolando pointed out if you are not a great piano player (I've spent hours cleaning up stuff as I am not a piano player). You can also 'write' in your notes. After you are done you can print the music in tab or in sheet music.

Kind of getting off track here... Simply put, you get what you pay for. To get a good sound, shop around and check the stores and get a mid-quality syth for about $300.00 to $400.00US and you won't be sorry.

Hope this helps.

PS. you may try http://www.synthzone.com/
 
I'm trying to do exactly the same thing.... just backing stuff over which I'll record my own guitar/vocals - also folk, country stuff. I have a low end keyboard and want to do what you're looking at - but have not figured out what a synth does, or if I need one or ??? Pretty new to it all. Let me know what you find out and I'll do the same
 
If that question is for me.... well, of course I don't want to spend a wad - but I'd spend a few bucks to get things to work properly. I"m looking at PowerTracks, which, I guess, is a sequencer that works with Band in a Box..... might do what I want, but I really don't know...
 
I think I'm just going to try my luck with a $100 personal board, for several reasons....

As opposed to MIDI, it is portable. And according to Rolando, most personal keyboards have MIDI outs, so I could mess around with it anyway. I'm also poor, so I can't spend much more than that. If my music is good enough, it won't matter if you can tell from the recording that I used a cheap keyboard.

I'm still interested to know more about the quality of MIDI sounds, though. I haven't gotten this straight yet, but I'm assuming the sounds are stored in your computer and the MIDI keyboard is just the means through which you select the notes, instead of having to "tab" it out. I have Cakewalk, so I know it has sounds in it. Can you download or buy software containing better sounds? If I'm correct about all of this, though, what is the point in spending a ton of money on a MIDI keyboard if all it is is a rack of keys with the sounds independantly coming from the computer? Whats the difference between a synth and a MIDI keyboard and a personal keyboard?
 
hmm...

Sounds like there are many questions that need answers here...

Synthesizers ARE computers...
I have about 9 synthesizers, drum machines and sound devices...

Most older synths and newer ones come with sounds onboard...
There are literally thousands of synthesizers available...

Check out
Vintage Synth . Org
This site has the most complete listing of Synths I've ever seen...

Anyway...
A "synthesizer" has onboard sounds and generally some type of MIDI "recording" device called a sequencer... This allows you to record your sounds from the synth RIGHT ON THE SYNTH and play them back in one package...

A "controller" (Of which is spoken of in the posts)... Is a keyboard that has no sounds but transmits MIDI language to tell a computer or other device to make THEIR sounds go off...

I use a "controller" for my entire setup so I can trigger one synthesizer from another and record it using my computer "Sequencer"...

You can also purchase programs that allow your computer to make sounds like a synthesizer (you can run several at once), then buy a "controller" to trigger them...

Why more than one synth?
Good question... But a guitartist should already know the answer to this...

Just as different guitars give you different sounds, so too keyboard manufacturers are better at making certain sounds with certain keyboards...
Where a guitar deals with the "tone" and obvious signature of one sound, the keyboard deals with quality of specific types of instruments...

Example: I have a Roland JV90 - It is fantastic with a number of sounds - It's pianos and strings are fantastic... BUT - it SUCKS for drums... On the older Roland synths, Roland just didn't have it...
SO - I purchased a drum module (Alesis DM5 and DMPro) - Though there are other "Synth Modules" for drums on the market, these two fit my needs to a tee... I like the sounds and my customers get great satisfaction and realism from using them...

As technology progresses, there will be less need for dedicated synthesizers in their traditional sense (Keyboard attached to a sound module)... I know some people who compose entirely with "soft synths" (Synthesizers that have sounds on a computer)... I still prefer hardware synthesizers - but I do own a few softsynths as well... But, my work is HEAVY (Ie: orchestrations, comercials, etc)... I haven't found a computer and complete set of softsynths that can do everything that my entire setup can match, yet..................

YET!

Soon I'm sure...
Does this help?
Visit My site for more information and samples of complete MIDI music and see what you think...
Riverdog Productions

Good luck on your endeavors...
 
Yes, this helps a lot.... although, I'm only barely getting all that you're talking about....

I THINK, that what I want to do is to simply use my Casio as a controller for sounds in my computer - but maybe I should use some of those in my board, also - I really don't know. Again, all I am looking to do is make some backing over which I can record my guitar and vocals... just some bass and a little percussion.. I only play folk and country stuff, so don't need anything real heavy...

Thanks for your help - tell me more!

Lane
 
Cool..>!

I'm glad it's making some sense...
It's a tough concept to master especially when there's so much gear flying around!!!

I'd say that if your computer has sounds that apeal to you and they fit your bill, plug the MIDI out of your keyboard to the MIDI in on your computer (You must have a card or cable for this) and trigger the sounds within your computer... Then just record the trigger events into your Computer Sequencer and play the computer by itself...

If you like the Casio sounds and they work well for you, too there are other considerations... Does the Casio recieve on multiple channels? If so which one are you going to use... Then you've got to get the software you have to recieve info from the keyboard and then send it back... For this you need to connect the MIDI out of the computer to the MIDI in of the keyboard... This is ONLY if you're going to use sounds from the Casio... There's always traditional recording of those sounds, too...

There's so many ways to do this stuff!

Keep it up... Let me know if I can help anymore....

Again good luck - you're on the path!!!
 
Welllllll.... I'm not quite this far along yet....

As far as sounds in my computer .... well, I'm not sure that's what I have here - I am using Band in a Box and it has sounds and styles, but I don't think that's what you're talking about. I also have a Soundblaster card, Audigy Platnium, that comes with "sound fonts" and a lot of other stuff that I don't understand.... but I'm thinking there must be something there that I can use to do what I'm after..... but I'm dumb to this stuff.

I do have the needec MIDI connections (just don't know what to do with them) and I have recording software that will record whatever I put to it..... sequencer? Maybe that's the next thing I need - there's one that's called Powertracks, that is supposed to work well with Band in a Box (same manafacturer), so maybe I should try that? But I must admit that I don't quite know what that does yet....

AS to my Casio. I just got it, but I don't see anything about multiple channel receiving in a quick scan of the instructions... it does say that it has "5 multi-timbre receive" for MIDI - what does that mean? If I can use some of whats in the Casio, that would be good, but I'm getting the impression that using it to control my computer will work better..... am I right? Can I get more sounds in my compter somehow?

Thanks for all your help
 
If you want to do MIDI and do it right get a copy of cakewalk pro9 and ditch the rest of the junk. If you are a musician you don't need a band in a box. And try looking for a controller keyboard with no onboard sounds like the evolution series. That would be cheap and effective for what you are trying to do.
 
Well... OK...... I already have the keyboard, so not inclined to get another quite yet... but Cakewalk Pro 9 - that's an expensive program, isn't it? Are their scaled back versions adequate to do what I'm trying to do? Seems that Home Studio or one of their cheaper programs have MIDI capabilitiy..... or do they?
 
jake-owa said:
If you want to do MIDI and do it right get a copy of cakewalk pro9 and ditch the rest of the junk. If you are a musician you don't need a band in a box. And try looking for a controller keyboard with no onboard sounds like the evolution series. That would be cheap and effective for what you are trying to do.
Click to expand...

Forget about PA9 and buy something that is still supported. Home Studio 2002 has most of Sonar's features and can be bought for $60.
 
ok... now i'm thinking about a soft synth setup...

what is the advantage of getting a controller like evolution that has no onboard sounds over using a yamaha personal keyboard as a controller?

what is good software for supplying sounds that are good for blues piano, honky-tonk, country, folk, and classic rock?

does anyone have an opinion on the Fatar CMK137 MIDI Controller? it comes with Cubasis A/V and Opus Editor, what are these and are they any good?

i would appreciate specific answers, thanks.
 
Low Country said:
ok... now i'm thinking about a soft synth setup...

what is the advantage of getting a controller like evolution that has no onboard sounds over using a yamaha personal keyboard as a controller?

what is good software for supplying sounds that are good for blues piano, honky-tonk, country, folk, and classic rock?

does anyone have an opinion on the Fatar CMK137 MIDI Controller? it comes with Cubasis A/V and Opus Editor, what are these and are they any good?

i would appreciate specific answers, thanks.
Click to expand...

You are asking for trouble now.

As soon as you go the softsynth route, latency comes into play. Unless you have a very fast PC, it will cause you tons of agravation.
 
750 mhz, AMD processor... 192kb cache... 64mb syncDRAM

i just want to record good piano sounds. i thought maybe i could get better sounds out of a midi setup for the same price as a personal keyboard. i'm just overdubbing one track of a simple sound, but its too complicated.

i might just buy a bass and forget about piano altogether.
 
I picked up Home Studio 2002, as suggested and it looks good, though I haven't figured it out yet.... so, I should be able to use it and my simple keyboard, to make some basic back tracks - right? Need to know how to load sound fonts and such so that I can make the keyboard play them, since the sounds in the board aren't that great...

Thanks for the help
 
Latency

That guy is not kidding. Using a board that has good onboard sounds allows your computer to act just a recorder---it is hard enough to record without latency without having the computer generate the tones for your keyboard.

I have a new p4 2.4 which I am going to try the midi keyboard cpu synth route. We will see what happens---Saving for a PRS custom 24 so spending 300+ on a synth just isn't in the picture for me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top