Keypro 88 question

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sweetpeee

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Hi all,

I have a Keystation Pro 88 that I am using through Midi to control a Yamaha Motif es Rack module. I have the phone out from the module going into a small Mackie mixer...I also have a Casio Wk-3700(?) with that phone out, (it's the only audio output), going into another channel of the mixer so I can use headphones coming out of the board to hear both keyboards at once. I works, but there's one problem.

The Keystation Pro 88 problems: All I want to do is get the standard sounds out of the Motif by controlling it with the Key Pro. I am NOT using a computer for this. I only want midi to contol a module...simple right?

(1)The first problem is, I can change presets on the Motif by pressing the "program" button then the "+" or "-" buttons, but I can't change banks. I have six banks in the Motif and I have to change it manually (the bank buttons on the motif pannel itself) there was a time (months back haven't played in months) when I pressed either the LSB or MSB buttons and it changed banks, but for whatever reason, it's not doing it now.

(2) Problem 2: When I change presets, the B14 button controls the signal going out (if this is all the way down, you get no tone, just a static-like clicking sound when a key is depressed) another thing is, as soon as you switch patches/presets, the sound is muffled and reverby until you turn the B10 knob in either direction...even slightly, then it sounds perfectly like the Motif. If I plug headphones into the front pannel of the motif and press a key or change a preset, it works fine, nothing to adjust.

I would like to set this up so the Keystation Pro 88 JUST controls the Motif without controlling reverb, volume etc. I once had this set up so the Key Pro did exactly that. I could change banks through LSB and I could also just hit the "program" button up or down and get a different preset. Any ideas??

Thank you in advance, J.P.
 
Download the shareware Midiox.

It will show you what messages your Keypro is sending out and from there you can make the necessary changes.

Why you have such a capable controller for such a simple job is beyond me, but there must be a way that you can reset the continuous controllers to default setting.

The problem you are having is the Keypro is sending continuous controller data in an undesirable fashion. Setups typically don't change themselves, although stranger things have happened --- it's usually when children or inexperienced users try to play your gear.
 
Thank you for your reply,

I am not using a computer at all with this set up.I haven't loaded the disc that came with the unit because at present, I don't need those functions.

I did revert the Keypro back to the default settings. I get the feeling that the default settings are doing what I DON'T want them to by default.I am assuming that it's something the Motif is reading and probably needs to be changed there.

Why you have such a capable controller for such a simple job is beyond me, but there must be a way that you can reset the continuous controllers to default setting.

I have this controller for just that reason, it's "capable"...I'm not. I needed something with weighted keys so I get a piano-type of feel when needed.I am completely new to keyboards and midi and want the option of using all these knobs and sliders once I get a handle of the basics. I feel it's better to have the extra options than to NOT have them and need them.What I said I am trying to do with it in my previous post, is what I am trying to do with it for now.

J.P.
 
Does the prokeys have software to program the CC's? I'm sure your problem lies with how the Motif sees bank/program changes and setting up the Prokeys to send those msgs
 
Does the prokeys have software to program the CC's? I'm sure your problem lies with how the Motif sees bank/program changes and setting up the Prokeys to send those msgs

Yes, it comes with a CD-Rom, but I've never hooked this keyboard up to a computer. I didn't think it needed to be hooked up to a computer to operate and from what I understand, the basic operation is already in the keyboard and doesn't have to be installed.The computer I have, that I use exclusively for music, it a ibook and I have no internet access available. What is available is a PC on dail up as far as the internet is concerned.


http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/manuals/KSP88_M71020QS_CD-EN_V1.PDF

http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/manuals/KeyPro88_AdvancedGuide-EN.pdf

As far as I can tell, it allows you to install 10 presets.As far as the Motif, this is where I believe the problem is. I am going to take another look in its manual when I get home. At one point in time, this all worked perfectly without going online or installing anything. I am sure I just have to adjust one thing to get it running the way I had it before I took a 6 month long break.

About the above manuals, they don't tell you much. I have both the user's manual and the printed out advanced manual, but if you're a novice, it seems like there is a huge learning curve.

Thanks, J.P.
 
sweetpeee said:
I didn't think it needed to be hooked up to a computer to operate and from what I understand, the basic operation is already in the keyboard and doesn't have to be installed.
Click to expand...
Strictly speaking, you're right. Having access to a computer with the software mounted makes it easier to diagnose and cure problems like you're having now.

You have an ibook that you say is just for music --- why not install the CD rom that came with the Keypro on that?

You are wrong when you say this is a Motif problem. From your description the Motif is doing what Motifs are supposed to do. This problem is caused by the Keypro transmitting Continuous Controller messages that, as you say, you may need in the future but are just getting in the way now.

There must be a setting on the Keypro in the 'set up' or 'midi' page that allows you to block sending all CC data for now. Flip that switch and your problem will be solved, but you won't be able to change patches from the Keypro anymore --- you will need to keep the Motif within reach and change them there...
 
Hey!

I finally got the Keypro doing some of what I would like. I can get the presets on the Motif to sound like they should without touching other buttons.It's a start,I still haven't got the LSB changing banks for me, that will come later hopefully.

I did a number of things, I have both the Key Pro and the Motif set up on Midi channel 1....the motif has a return channel parameter as well and it was also on one...I changed it to 2. I don't know if that's what did it,but it was something I hadn't tried up until that point. I also hit "mute" on the continous controller.I don't know if that did anything either.

I've read the Motif manual and if I understand it correctly, It has four assignable outputs (mono) and for an example in the book, it said you may want to pan idividual drums in the mix by sending these outputs to a mixer. If I am not mistaken, it bypasses the reverb and such when something is plugged into these....in other words, the signal isn't altered in any way. Maybe istead of the phone out, I should use the back pannel and either go it straight out the R & L (mono) outputs or use two of the assignable outputs? I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier. I was using the phone out because it was easier to work with and as I stated in the first post, the Casio ONLY has the phone out. Any thoughts?

Thanks a lot for all the input! Things seem to be coming along...

J.P.
 
sweetpeee said:
I also hit "mute" on the continous controller.
Click to expand...
I'm typing but you're not reading.

There is nothing called 'the continuous controller'. There are 127 continuous controllers that accompany and modify midi note data and settings inside the hardware on the recieving end of the midi wire. These are set wrong --- as far as your intended purpose goes --- and need to be set back.

I went back and reread your first post and, not knowing the knob assiginments on a Keypro, this sounds to me like completly normal and desireable behavior for a controller keyboard and a controller-responsive module like the Motif. This level of expressive power and responsiveness from any synth was unheard of a mere decade ago.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but if you choose to continue not to listen and continue to pursue your own solutions please do it on your own without involving us.
 
I'm typing but you're not reading.

Hmm...it seems we're both guilty of this. On the very FIRST post, I said I wasn't using a computer to do any of this.I even used caps to be more explicit, yet you give me a link to go to to diagnos the problem using something online. But I was curteous enough to thank you.Then you question why I have such a capable controller "is beyond me".What does it matter to you either way what controller I am using and why? I took the high road and thanked you for your input on the matter as well. I even mentioned that the keyboard is capable and I AM NOT. If someone new to midi can't post questions here without being ridiculed in the above fashion, what is the sense in having the board to begin with? I did do as search first, yes i've been here long enough to know that you should always do a search before asking any questions, but did not find what I was looking for. But if you really want to know, here's the set up, I have the Casio,the Motif, Korg D1600MKII, Pro Tools 002R, TC helicon Voiceworks, Antars AVox (in the ibook), Fender Cyber Twin (with midi foot controller), Roland DR-880 drum machine, Roland TR505, Line6 XTL floor model (and variax), Line 6 XTL bass model,and a Roland stand alone 16 track sequesncer,ALL of these have Midi ports...a controller such as the Keypro 88 might not be overkill for someone who does bass, guitar, vocals and some keys. But I digress...



There is nothing called 'the continuous controller'.

Right you are! I was typing it from work and didn't have the keyboard in front of me.My mistake.

You wrote "There must be a setting on the Keypro in the 'set up' or 'midi' page that allows you to block sending all CC data for now.

This is EXACTLY what I was trying to do when I mentioned hitting the "mute" button...I WAS reading what you wrote and was trying to block sending all CC data, after reading the manual I thought the "mute" button would do just that.

I wrote: "I also hit "mute" on the continous controller The button is called "control mute". I don't think it's such a stretch to confuse the two especially doing it from memory at work without the benefit of the keyboard in front of me,but (shrugs)...

I'm sorry to have to say this, but if you choose to continue not to listen and continue to pursue your own solutions please do it on your own without involving us.

I am listenting.I didn't install the software and made it clear that I didn't want to use my computer for this set up in my first three posts. I didn't think I needed to and it turns out I didn't need to after all.It's not like I am intentionally ignoring what advice I'm given here. Just didn't want to get the computer involved. But if doing this will mitigate some of your resentment towards me, I'd be more than happy to oblidge...

Lastly, I am probably going to be posting on this board a lot.I have disability.I have no wish to expand on that, other than to say If you're not the patient type, just ignore the threads.My intention was to try to show that I wasn't just one of these "do it for me" posters. It's important for me to DO and not just ask someone else to do it for me.

J.P.
 
sweetpeee said:
My intention was to try to show that I wasn't just one of these "do it for me" posters.
Click to expand...
Maybe I was a little hasty.

And maybe I didn't read your first post carefully enough, but I guarantee you setting up your Keypro would be many times easier with the aid of the visual aspect you get from a computer. I have no 'resentment' that you are reluctant to involve the computer in this --- just 'wonderment' as to exactly why you're so resistant to installing a small piece of software and letting it sit there taking up minimal space until you need it again.

If you're making progress on your own that's fine.

Don't use the headphone out on the Motif, though. Different manufacturers have different ideas about what a good set of signals to feature in headphones are, and you may be depriving yourself of the full Motif experience. Also, since a mixer is not among your list of gear I assume that you are using the inputs of the Korg as a mixer --- that's good, but to avoid confusion until you're more familiar with the Motif and with the Keypro I would advise you to use just the left and right outs --- just the main outs --- from the Motif and not mess around with the individual outs for now.
 
just 'wonderment' as to exactly why you're so resistant to installing a small piece of software and letting it sit there taking up minimal space until you need it again.

Okay, I did this. In the user's manual, it says that if you have OSX you just hook up the usb and it installs itself,there are other directions for OS 9.whatever as well as windows directions, but none for OSX so I am assuming you only need to go from the usb/firewire on the Keypro to the USB/firewire on the ibook. I put the disc in anyway.When you open it up, there are a series of folders...which one I needed to open (if any) wasn't all that clear, so I ended up intalling both fire wire (400 something and AP) programs.

When all was said and done, I clicked on the hard drive icon on the desk top, the apps or utilities and found under "midi" the Keypro 88 icon. So for now, when a note is depressed on the keyboard, you can hear a quick two chimes (for lack of a better word) on the ibook,and an arrow on the icon lights up. I guess it's recognizing the keyboard,but that's it. There is no other file that I know of,no visual other than this little keyboard icon that indicates when a note is pressed.

Do I need to come out of the keypro using midi into the ibook? I have a little blue converter thing that has a firewire port on one end and two midi ports on the other. Is this something I need to visually see what's going on? It too comes with yet another disc.

thanks for any help, J.P.
 
If you're running OSX you don't need anything except a USB cable plugged into the USB port on your computer on one end and into the Keypro on the other. Or, if there's no USB port on the Keypro, use the USB-midi I/O cable you describe.

You can tell a Firewire port from a USB port by the shape --- a USB port is a small rectangular connector longer than it is wide, and the 4 pin Firewire ports found on a typical laptop (like your IBook) are basically square in shape.

Sounds like you've gone above and beyond what's required by installing too much and it's time to move on to the next CD which no doubt contains the editor/librarian.
 
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