Jeff Lynne and ELO (Electric Light Orchestra)

[hobbestheprince]

Hey everyone, it's been a while since I've been on here. I was wondering if anyone has any idea on how Jeff Lynne achieved the harmony sound during his ELO era? I'm not sure if it's more in the arrangement area, or is it just a harmonizer from back in the day? I can't find anything on the net about it, and was wondering if someone had a hint of what was done back then.

So if anyone can point me in the right direction, it would be really cool.

 

[nddhc]

#1 - You need a really good singer with really good pitch who is able to double and triple track their voice and still stay on pitch

Not sure about him exactly but I love that sound. Queen had a similar harmony sound going on - really,really thick stuff. Just experiment with it... Heres what I do -

First, well written harmonies are a must (of course!) Have a keyboard nearby unless you have perfect pitch or at least really good relative pitch. Throwing some 7th notes in there can really thicken up a harmony and make it sound more complete. Sometimes works, sometimes doesnt. Dont try to follow the "live" concept of only having a 4 part harmony.. Sometimes you can end up with 6 or 8 part harmonies and if it works - Go for it!!

I usually triple track each part. Sometimes I only have to double track, somtimes I do 4 or 5 tracks. Really trust your ear on what sounds best for each part..

I usually compress each harmony track individually and try to keep them in mono but I mean that is just personal taste. I have a pretty dynamic voice so this is a must, but some people have more control and it might not be necessary for them to compress EVERY track

I then run all the harmony tracks to a separate bus and compress it even more (You can tell I really,really like super compressed harmony vocals ) Follow this by an EQ with some of the mids boosted and lows taken away and this has gotten me pretty close in the past. I try not to use much (if any) reverb when im going for this sound, unlike you would if you were going for a Beach boy type harmony. I like these to sound much more gritty

Good luck!!

 

[ez_willis]

Queen had a similar harmony sound going on - really,really thick stuff.

I never got into ELO, but I've had one of their singles stuck in my head for the last two weeks.


Queen used track the vocals, then harmonies, then double the harmonies as a group standing in front of the monitors, kind of re-amping them. Then they'd do it again. And again.

 

[nddhc]

Are you sure about the "standing in front of the monitors" thing for queen? Never heard that before about them, but that would make sense

I do know that Freddie, Roger, and Brian would stand in front of a mic and all sing each part together. Then they would record this 3 times (triple track it) and repeat this process for every line of the harmony.. but thats all ive read about it.

Wait.. Shouldnt we be talking about ELO?

 

[pdadda]

And then there are truly good groups like LFO...

 

[ez_willis]

Are you sure about the "standing in front of the monitors" thing for queen? Never heard that before about them, but that would make sense

Brian May mentioned it in the VH-1 Classic Album's Night at the Opera. I think.

 

[true-eurt]

ELO put on one of the best concerts ever, back in the very early 70's at Memorial Hall in Kansas City Kansas! They kicked butt!

 

[Robert D]

Well there you go....... "they kicked butt" is the answer to your question.

I remember when they were "in trouble" for using recordings during their shows. Now we just call that sampling and sequencing, and it's perfectly valid.

 

[Sonic Rat]

I got an effect sort of like that........I was using 2 mixers to record with.....I used one because it had phantom power and I was using a condenser mic..it only had stereo outs...I fed it into another mixer because it had direct outs,then into the recorder which I monitored with the first mixer..It made a loop.....I wasn't thinking about it feeding back thru the second mixer which ended up making a double tracked effect....guess the slight delay and eq settings I was using to moniter with the first mixer gave the (sorta) ELO sound........If you have 2 mixers,it might pay to experement a little.....sometimes good accidents happen...........

 

[hobbestheprince]

Well there you go....... "they kicked butt" is the answer to your question.

I remember when they were "in trouble" for using recordings during their shows. Now we just call that sampling and sequencing, and it's perfectly valid.

I wouldn't doubt it for a second It almost seems as though the harmonies are artificial in a way ... they have such a strange vibe to them. I read somewhere that on one of their albums they used an Eventide Harmonizer, whatever that does I'm not sure. I know someone will say, "it harmonizes your voice idiot ..." but it's Jeff Lynne we're talking about, and I don't think he used a shortcut like that.

One thing I did notice with the voice arrangement is that the harmonies are generally pretty high for males ... somewhere in the C5 range and above. Note: Middle C is C4, so basically an octave higher, and the harmonies usually lie around that area.

I've tried recording my voice about 16 times for each harmony and did a three part harmony, but it just didn't have that sound. If anything, it was just a lot louder

 

[hobbestheprince]

Oh yeah, here's some samples if anyone hasn't heard of E.L.O.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZB-DUCrhVQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRnDW97nEXc

It's all the background bits (harmonies/effects on them) I'm interested in.

 

[nddhc]

Also if you listen to a song like Mr Blue Sky there are vocal harmonies, vocoders, and what even sounds like a mellotron choir. Whos to say he didnt mix these together?

16 tracks each for a 3 part harmony seems like a little much Maybe try a 16 part harmony, with each part triple tracked That would probably be overkill too but you get my point...

 

[true-eurt]

Well there you go....... "they kicked butt" is the answer to your question.

I remember when they were "in trouble" for using recordings during their shows. Now we just call that sampling and sequencing, and it's perfectly valid.

You trying to start some trouble dude..?






















Hi ya Robert. How are you ?

 

[hobbestheprince]

Also if you listen to a song like Mr Blue Sky there are vocal harmonies, vocoders, and what even sounds like a mellotron choir. Whos to say he didnt mix these together?

16 tracks each for a 3 part harmony seems like a little much Maybe try a 16 part harmony, with each part triple tracked That would probably be overkill too but you get my point...

I don't think a sixteen part harmony is something that can be pulled off. There would be doubled notes and stuff octaves apart, so it's almost counter-intuitive. I have fooled around with pitch shifting though, and it gets a pretty close result. I think it's because the pitch correction software has that robotic stamp it puts on the vocal, so it sounds really artificial or something.

 

[Raxy]

It was all real and each harmony was double tracked. No pitch effects or harmonizer in the ELO days.

 

[hobbestheprince]

It was all real and each harmony was double tracked. No pitch effects or harmonizer in the ELO days.

Well, you're in for a treat then ... here's a site that had the album info for "Out of the Blue" in the 70's. Scroll below and notice "Eventide Harmonizer" and other effects used.

No doubt they double-tracked each voice, but I've done it and come nowhere near that sound of the backing vocals.

 

[Raxy]

Yes but you asked about the vocals not the effects that were part of the ELO sound. They put vocoders and pitch effects on the map for many of us that were youngsters then. Listen to the effects. That is where you here the equipment in the list. Not in the pure vocal arraignments. Those were just the magic of multitrack and a lota hard work.

The 910 Harmonizer in those days did NOT have the capability to make pure tight human sounding harmonies like you hear on the album. Believe me we tried.

There was another trick back then using the Dolby noise system that gives you that airy background vocal. They encoded with dolby but did not decode. They basically used it as a funky sort of compressor.

 

[hobbestheprince]

Yes but you asked about the vocals not the effects that were part of the ELO sound. They put vocoders and pitch effects on the map for many of us that were youngsters then. Listen to the effects. That is where you here the equipment in the list. Not in the pure vocal arraignments. Those were just the magic of multitrack and a lota hard work.

The 910 Harmonizer in those days did have the capability to make pure tight human sounding harmonies like you hear on the album. Believe me we tried.

There was another trick back then using Dolby that gives you that airy background vocal. They encoded with dolby but did not decode. They basically used it as a funky sort of compressor.

So you're saying that the sound of all those voices on a song like, "Don't Bring me Down" were just regularly recorded and had nothing added to them? If so, that is pretty wicked. But I'm no slouch regarding harmony arrangement, and when you hear their stuff it's almost as if Jeff Lynne had a formula or something when it came to the backups. It's as if he went, "ok, here comes the backup vocals, time to arrange it this way ..." or whatever he might've said. I only say this because they have that "Afternoon Delight" magic to them ... I love that sound and on my next song I wanted to at least try to mimic it.

 

[Raxy]

Yes, and I agree they are delightful. Think about how many people and bands had access to the same equipment. There is only one ELO. It was genius more than anything.

 

[Nakatira]

A

I do know that Freddie, Roger, and Brian would stand in front of a mic and all sing each part together. Then they would record this 3 times (triple track it) and repeat this process for every line of the harmony.. but thats all ive read about it.

I`ve seen Queen record in this way in the music video of the tune Sombody to love.

But I think Queen genrally just dubbed Freddies voice until they got the result they needed.
He had the range and the best voice.
I know they used Roger taylors voice on many occasions as he hit the highest notes of the quartet.

But generally it was Freddie that you heard in Queens Harmonies.