Jagular and Crawdad Co-write a Tune

Thank you everyone for the listens, the insights and the comments. All very appreciated. I'm STILL working on the vocal, LOL! I do think I am making some progress now. I'll probably post yet another version just for the sake of trying to vindicate my past vocals and because I think the song is worth getting right.

I've used a bunch of different mics and pres with good results before. This time, I'm having some trouble getting it dialed in just right. If I could be in the booth and at the console at the same time, it would be so easy!

Thanks: M. Brane, bdbdbuck, SluiCe, Joro, Guernica, ChrisHarris, powderfinger, wfaraoni, and dachay2tnr.
 
Truly a great tune!
Beautiful playing and singing.

This was great the first time Jagular posted it,the Crawdad touch just made it shine.

The only thing that stuck out to me was the mando,seemed too prominent in the mix.
Everything else was sweet and layed back,the mando seemed to stick out a little.
I know,who am I to talk:D

This is collaboration to the max!

Thanks for sharing it guys,
Pete
 
crawdad said:
If I could be in the booth and at the console at the same time, it would be so easy!
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Holy cow...you're actually recording in a different room from your DAW/Computer? That would mean that you're doing your vocals pretty much in one take, right? That sounds hard, lol.

Don't get me wrong, I usually do my vocals in one take also...WITH ABOUT 500 SUBSEQUENT PUNCH-INS, lmao.

I've often wondered what it would be like to be able to just sing without having to keep one eye on the input meter and one hand on the preamp gain, all the while making sure that I'm not getting far enough away from the mic to prevent my "room" from creeping onto the track. Now I'm depressed...

naw, not really. :D
 
Nah Chris--I'm all in the same room. The problem is I can't hear my performance through the monitors. I have to wear cans, and everything sounds great in those. Its only when you hear it over speakers that the real nuances become clear. I've been known to punch in once or twice in my life (like about ten times on every vocal track!).

When I record someone else, I can sit and adjust level, compression or limiting and EQ on the spot. I can say, move in, move out, turn your head a little for those plosives, etc. For me its difficult to concentrate on the engineering aspect when I have to concentrate on melody, pitch, words, tonality and all these whirlygigs going on.

Actually, I do all my vocal takes in one pass and they are always perfect. Not only that, but I'm a shitty liar! :D
 
I enjoyed this one a great deal. This genre is familiar ground to me. I can hear the hard work. You two did an excellent job of feeling it and standing in the groove thru it. two very fortunate guys to have those voices , and pickers to boot..

Ken
 
Crawdad & Jag,

Damn! How sweet is this!

A perfect example of excellent songwriting, crafted with great care.

Beautiful form, melody and harmony. Lyrics are effective and emotional without being sappy. ( yeah, I cried like a little baby on the bridge.)

I also love the verse starting on the VI chord (F#m7) and the deceptive rhythmic cadence. EXCELLENT!

Very well played and sung Dad! Pulled my heartstrings bigtime.

The only thing I can't get used to yet is the mandolin part. hmmm,
maybe after 10 more listens. Absolutely love the piano on the chorus!

Can't wait till you post the final vox track that pleases you.

Jag, I also anxiously await to hear you wail on it with your version! Gonna do it C or D ?

I don't know who labeled this tune as country! It is to good to be pigeonholed...major crossover potential here!'The River Flows' deserves careful and persistent marketing. Don't you guys dare let this one "end in vain". IT HAS ALL THE INGREDIENTS! 5 BIG ONES from flat-9.

Ralph
 
Toki987--Thanks man. Like I said, I always thought this was a great song, even the original form. I just love the theme, which is to follow your heart despite the possible dangers. Life is about taking certain risks and the journey is bland and boring if you don't. Thats what we tried to get across in the song. Jag was incredible in sharing his original song and with input on the changes I heard. He's gonna blow us all away with his writing, I have a feeling.

Flat-9--First, a hearty thanks on the comments. Lt. Bob has been raving about you, and, like a true asshole, I haven't checked out your great talents yet--my apology. I will, promise. I would love to see this tune go somewhere. I am going to do some work on that.

As for the mandolin--maybe its too loud, maybe its the idiot playing it! (me) :D This particular instrument was purchased 33 years ago for the grand sum of $21.00. Its a Harmony model, which my three year old son jumped on way back when. The top is glued together, and its really seen better days. Would I like a nice Gibson? Ya buddy!

Anyway, thank you so much for the encouragement and positive thoughts! Much appreciated!
 
flat-9 said:
Jag, I also anxiously await to hear you wail on it with your version! Gonna do it C or D ?

Ralph
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Heh...haven't settled on a key yet. I was toying with C on Saturday when I was just noodling around on the guitar. Could do that without a capo too :D :D. Hadn't thought about D yet. Might have to wear the tight undies for that one :D. I'll probably do three or four different scratch tracks in different keys and sing it to death in my car to see which key I like best.

Plus...I through Diamond Rio's "Completely" CD in my car. I'm going to sing along with that for a while to blow a little of the rust out of the chords...oh yeah...listened & sang to some of it this morning on the way to work. Those harmonies are sweet!!!

Thanks again to everyone else who commented about the song. This was truly a blast for me. Trading ideas back and forth with Crawdad was a great experience and I felt more creative than I have for a long...long... time. And yes Crawdad performing it sounds pretty damn good too :D:D.
 
Hmmmm, how to say this....I'm really having mixed feelings about this remake.

Let's start of by saying it's well produced & performed. You're an excellent singer, Crawdad. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. And I love the mandolin...

Furthermore, it's an excellent song!

But....

Strangely enough perhaps, I was just a tad more touched by Jagular's original version. I really adored its vulnerability. It actually forced me to listen to the lyrics, because of that vulnerability.

This version sounds a bit.....eh.....too produced for my taste, like the usual stuff you hear on the radio (don't hit me, don't hit me :) ). Its radiofriendly sound makes it very easy to ignore the lyrics completely (for me, at least). The song merely passes, as opposed to knocking me in the face.

Does this makes any sense? :)
 
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Gorgeous song. Beautiful melody and harmonies. crawdad's voicie is perfect for the type of song. I can't offer any suggestions musically to make it better. It was outstanding.

edit: OK if I could find a small imperfection, maybe an overpronounced "r" in the word "doctor."
 
Jagular--C or D?!!! Man, I just about knocked it down to G.:D When we do a production collab, I know who will be singing the high harmonies!

Pedullist--Well, it all comes down to taste, I suppose. The original version still exists, so listen to what you like. The goal here WAS to get this song on the radio, lol! We don't know if will get there or not, but thats what we were aiming for. No, I'm not gonna hit you! The day everybody starts telling me everything I do is wonderful is the day I'll know somebody is fooling me. By the way, do they have country radio in the Netherlands?:D be forewarned, the next song I post might just make you sick! :D:D

TripleM--Hey, I appreciate that! I'll have to check those r's out too. I'm afraid thats just how I sing, but I mighta got carried a way there.
 
crawdad said:


As for the mandolin--maybe its too loud, maybe its the idiot playing it! (me) :D This particular instrument was purchased 33 years ago for the grand sum of $21.00. Its a Harmony model, which my three year old son jumped on way back when. The top is glued together, and its really seen better days. Would I like a nice Gibson? Ya buddy!
Click to expand...


I wouldn't even have opened my big mouth,but the song sounds totally studio quality otherwise,I thought you would want to know.
I definitly think it's just a little too loud.

That being said,for a 33 year old,$21.00 mando that's been stepped on,sounds fantastic!:D

I really like your vocal sound on this btw,stepping back from the mic gave it a real recorded in a pro studio sound to me.
Almost like a good compressor was on it.

Pete
 
crawdad said:
Jagular--C or D?!!! Man, I just about knocked it down to G.:D When we do a production collab, I know who will be singing the high harmonies!
Click to expand...

Heh...too bad we didn't meet in Nashville 10-15 years ago. I could see a Montgomery Gentry kind of thing going on :D:D
 
A Fantastic Job

A smooth mix that blends wonderfully, arranged tastefully!
I really can''t find anything I would change here other than things that were mentioned (vox up a tad)
Acoustic tone is sweet. This is good to go.

Print it.

jcmm
 
very nice gents! the mix has been covered.. I do agree that the vocal sound could be different.. I also think that only people in the clinic would ever even mention it.. :D
 
Pedullist said:
Hmmmm, how to say this....I'm really having mixed feelings about this remake......... sounds a bit.....eh.....too produced for my taste, like the usual stuff you hear on the radio (don't hit me, don't hit me :) ). Its radiofriendly sound makes it very easy to ignore the lyrics completely (for me, at least). The song merely passes, as opposed to knocking me in the face.
Does this makes any sense? :)
Click to expand...

GRRrrrrrr,
This kind of post pisses me off bigtime! :mad:

Tjarko!! What the fuck do you have against commercially acceptable and radio-friendly music? This song is PERFECT, complete with a some truly subtle and effective innovative twists.

The lyrics, that you found so easy to ignore, are in my opinion overwhelmingly appealling on MANY levels. This song is NOT merely a 'Love Story', it is a LESSON IN LIFE and the tough decisions & CHOICES that must be made to take the road less traveled along our journey.

It is on a 'MUST LISTEN TO LIST ' for all my kids. ( Yeah, they have to give me feedback on their interpretations..... Hey, I'm a daddy first and foremost.)

Ped, some of your posts remind me of the 'jazz heads' that I matriculated with. Kinda makes me wanna puke! Yeah, I was one of them, but I grew up. Many of them didn't, and their snobbery put them in a cubicle for 40 hours a week or into some other day gig that they couldn't fucking stand. Some of these cats actually took their own lifes abruptly or more slowly but surely by 'other means'. Please keep your mainstream bashing comments to yourself [this is by far not the first time, bud!] I do however greatly respect your musicianship, and I for one of many I'm sure, respect your critiques regarding technical and musical aspects. You are also quite funny Mr. Bean & I am growing to appreciate your sense of humor.

Some of us on this board make our livings @ writing and performing commercially acceptable music for television and radio. I actually teach some of the kids from UMASS Lowell how to do this to help them realize their dreams.
We also do gigs that some 'purists' would furrow their brows at!

I look @ it this way. My dad worked a factory gig ( 3rd shift for the extra $15 a week) to provide for a family of 8. His hands were all cut to shit after a nights work, but he was proud and glad to do it.....so....if someone comes up to me on a gig and requests a tune that makes me cringe, I just smile and say " I'd be glad to play that for ya". At the end of the night, I always say a prayer of gratitude that I have been allowed to make my living at something I have such passion for.

Please don't misinterpret me guys, as I mean to offend no one! We all have the gift of choice. I have much respect for those of us who have chosen to remain in one style of music and "have made it"....even MORE respect for those who chose to remain true to one style and support themselves by other means. I simply can't fucking stomach artsy-fartsy bullshit condescension.

Hey, It's about CHOICES......WHEREVER THE RIVER FLOWS............

p.s. to all.........NO, this shouldn't have been a PM! My comrad Ped isn't the only one who could benefit from this post!

peace,
Ralph
 
Well Hmmmmmmmm.............
Actually he did say that it was too produced for his taste and he also said that it sounded that way at least to him. I mean, the guy's entitled to an opinion and if he can't say it without getting reamed.....then we get into that mode of just gushing over each others' stuff.

I think it's ok to not like some part of something and say so as long as you're polite about it and I thought Ped was totally polite........same thing with mixmkr BTW......he's harsh sometimes but he's courteous.
 
Errrr, Flat-9.....I own Justin Timberlake's latest album and I like it dearly. And I like some Britney Spears and N'Sync songs. I'm the biggest Duran Duran fan in holland.

Don't you EVER call me a snob...

And about the lyrics....I'm from another country, remember?

Unfortunately I'm at work, and I can't comment on it any further. But I am a bit surprised and even 'shocked' by this response....you hardly know me, and you're calling me names?
 
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OK, OK....Flat-9, I appreciate what you are saying to the hilt, but it is a matter of taste, and I'm as damn guilty of it as the next guy. If Pedullist prefers one version over another, thats his taste calling the shots and I'm totally fine with that. Me and Jag wrote this for a particular market--one which a lot of people don't ever tune in to.

On the other hand, I appreciate so much of what you said. First, regarding the jazz elite--yeah, some of those guys sweated blood and held to their lofty principles only to be doomed to desk jobs. It saddens me whenever someones dreams and passions are left unfullfilled. That sucks for sure, but also condemning everything but the thing you love sucks too. I don't think thats the case with Ped. I also wish that the best musicians on the planet got 1 tenth the reward that some of these bullshit pop artists get (my bias there!)

Really, what is good is that you got something from the song and its wonderful to me that you are playing the song for your kids. I truly believe in the song and what it says so its nice to see that resonate in the world a bit.

I am like you--I give thanks for being allowed to play music so long instead of working a factory job. I did it for 6 weeks and quit when I was young. I've made a living with music ever since, and I think I am around your age. I think we are both survivors, and it ain't an easy road. Yes, it IS about choices. Like you, I often play commercially acceptable stuff and I've been a commercial songwriter and have done many commercial productions. If it was a perfect world, I'd probably be playing with a hot blues band in some smoky bar--and I'd be making a great living doing it! Fortunately, I learned early in life to appreciate all kinds of musical styles and that really helped me over the years.

Being an American who's grown up in the South, whose descendents lived through the dust bowl days, whose parents began life on poor dirt farms, etc, I have a certain affinity for country, whether its roots or modern commercial stuff. Pedullist lives in the Netherlands, which is a whole different scene, I'm sure. I can actually see where he's coming from, and thats OK with me.

The bottom line is that I love both of you guys and there are all kinds of attitudes and tastes out there for everybody to have their own niche. I'm not sure I've made myself that clear, but all I'm really saying is: thanks to both of you for sharing your views. Now don't start hating each other, cause this forum should be big enough to hold all the ideas that have to come out honestly to provide us all with the feedback and views we seek. Harmony and brotherhood is more important than ANY song. Always will be.
 
Pedullist said:
Hmmmm, how to say this....I'm really having mixed feelings about this remake. this....version sounds a bit.....eh.....too produced for my taste, like the usual stuff you hear on the radio (don't hit me, don't hit me :) ). Its radiofriendly sound makes it very easy to ignore the lyrics completely (for me, at least). The song merely passes, as opposed to knocking me in the face.Does this makes any sense? :)
Click to expand...

Steve,

Sorry, but I disagree with your fine line as to where opinion crosses over to aesthetic tastes even considering the 'polite' manner in which it was portrayed.

Ralph
 
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