I've come to the conclusion that a studio sound is only found in ... a studio

[noisewreck]

If you are a home recordist doing your own stuff, you have thought about your hopes and aspirations, and they include phrases such as "commercial success" or "public aclaim", then you should be realistic enough to realise that you have an uphill climb facing you. It's a bit like aiming for the world champion in Formula 1 as a privateer, and having to beat of the multi-million giants such as Ferrari and McLaren.

Not a good analogy for this year as Red Bull and Brawn GP are kicking everybody's ass Williams hasn't been too bad either, and would be better if they replaced Kazoo Nakajima with a driver that actually knows how to drive. Sorry, got off topic.... carry on...

 

[kcearl]

Yeah….a race of people…that’s ethnicity.
2.a. Pertaining to race; peculiar to a race or nation; ethnological. Also, pertaining to or having common racial, cultural, religious, or linguistic characteristics, esp. designating a racial or other group within a larger system; hence (U.S. colloq.), foreign, exotic.

slavic is not a race..I know what ethinicity means..slavic is a people

But I see you like coming up with names for people, don't you?
“Sunshine”…”Mr Emoticon”…”Slavic friend” (I guess that last one was sarcasm from you…”friend”).
(I see emoticons in many of your posts too....I guess that's different???)

none are deemed offensive or racist lol Mr Emoticon

When you keep hitting on the "bad English" remarks and also referring to my Slavic background...well, you know what that's all about...'cuz that's what YOU are doing intentionally.
You can call it what you like.

your English is fine..your English comprehension skills are terrible..its to do with your intelligence and/or education..not your background..my wife is of a different race..her English comprehension is impeccable

Oh…where did you try to “lighten it” up…???...was THAT what the bad English/Slavic remarks were about?

my sarcasm was an attempt..you keep bringing up slavic? hell you've mentioned it way more than me..I called you my slavic friend..no more no less..talk about issues

As demonstrated in your last post...you've obviously run out of substance and are now just blowing smoke out of your ass to cover your trail.

no when back in a corner because of your own stupidity you make wild accusations..how sad

The Cave is calling you....
I'm going to get back on-topic in this thread...you meanwhile, can keep beating on it 'til it makes you feel good.

you were never on topic dude..I was trying to help the guy before your intervention

fail Mc fail from the planet fail <====for you

 

[darrin_h2000]

Another funny song is the Monkee's "I'm a Believer" written by Neil Diamond - you can really hear him in that song even when the Monkees do it.

The irony here this time is the Monkees didnt record thier own tunes...lol.

Halfway agree with Gecko...cept that unless you find a way to work and build a resume, you will only be that guy who never gets heard....getting into this Id never even considered that would be good enough for anyone.

You keep working...and you will get better work...which leads to better work...and then to the highest level your life span would allow...staying in the basement was never my ambition.

 

[darrin_h2000]

none are deemed offensive or racist lol Mr Emoticon

If you arent english...then you would likely be french...if this is true...please explain the whole Jerry Lewis thing to me...I just dont get it?

 

[gecko zzed]

Not a good analogy for this year as Red Bull and Brawn GP are kicking everybody's ass Williams hasn't been too bad either, and would be better if they replaced Kazoo Nakajima with a driver that actually knows how to drive. Sorry, got off topic.... carry on...

However, let's not forget that neither Red Bull nor Brawn are really new kids on the block. Brawn rose phoenix-like from the ashes of Honda, whereas Red Bull was Jaguar, which in turn was Stewart Grand Prix . . . so depsite their prominence in the headlines in recent times, there's a fair bit of history behind them.

However, this is an indication of the attractiveness of "a star is born" headlines . . . an unknown and brilliant talent that springs unheralded from nowhere.

The same applies to "overnight sensations" in the music industry. Many of these have been plying their trade for many years before gaining public (sometimes sudden) recognition.

Yes . . . it's time to go, Nakajima. Williams has always been my favourite team, specially when Alan Jones, then Keke Rosberg were there.

 

[miroslav]

If you are a home recordist doing your own stuff, you have thought about your hopes and aspirations, and they include phrases such as "commercial success" or "public aclaim", then you should be realistic enough to realise that you have an uphill climb facing you. It's a bit like aiming for the world champion in Formula 1 as a privateer, and having to beat of the multi-million giants such as Ferrari and McLaren. You are pitting your domestic set-up against the tecnnological infrastructure and years of expertise in all facets of the industry. It can be done, but it's difficult: once upon a time Wiliams and McLaren were the Davids against the Goliaths of Ferrari and Renault.

However, your hopes and aspirations may be in different directions. I record my own stuff for a number of reasons: it's fun and enjoyable; I can experiment and develop techniques that will help when I record others; and my recorded material is the equivalent of someone else's diary, or someone else's stamp collection; it's a perosnal record.

I rarely place my music in the public domain, because I am just not interested. I've posted a couple of songs in the MP3 clinic because of some curiosity value, and a couple in the songwriting forum as a response to the challenges.

There are many reasons for home recording, and all are valid; from the intensely private to the thirst for adulation, and all stops in between.

I can see the value in Bongolation's posts. There are many home recordists who seek glory and whose 'desire' equates to a 'right be heard'. They seek the rewards without the effort, a common trait in today's culture of instant gratification and entitlement ("I want, therefore I should have"). I also observe the technological trap that some get caught in (this valve, this mike, this pre-amp is better than that), and twists themselves in knots getting nowhere.

Failure is then blamed on the 'industry' or some other external cause . . . never on themselves.

I've mentioned in other posts that recording is currently going through the same turmoil that the printing industry did a few decades ago with the advent of desktop printing. Printing shifted from the experts with years of experience and expertise to amateurs with their Apples and laser printers. The consequence was a rash of letters, brochures, posters and pamphlets that were graphically awful, semi-literate and lacking in basic fundamentals such as readability.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you can do it well, nor even that you should.

Spot on.

While I've always desired to "make it" in some way with music, even going back to my earliest bands when I started writing songs and introducing them into our band sets...I was never totally obsessed about it. I mean...after 30+ years of various studio revisions, at the root of it all, I do it mainly because it is who I am and it is my sanctuary. I accepted the reality of possibly never "making it"...a long time ago...but that was no reason to stop, since that IS still at the core of the dream for me.
The whole studio thing mainly came about from my desire to write music...and in the early days of home recording, I saw a way to go beyond just the written song by putting it to tape.
Plus, after my last major band (a long time ago)...when things fell apart just when they could have really exploded for us...all of a sudden I realized that I could continue with my originals without a real need for a band...thanks to the magic of multitrack recording.

So for me, the one thing kinda feeds off the other…writing-recording...and so for my own writting needs, I ended up getting very deep into the studio world, and fell in love with recording so much, that for awhile it become my greater focus instead of the writing, and I actually came close to a "pro" commercial studio position...I was assisting for awhile...but then my music started tugging at my sleeve, so I decided I was happier with my own studio and mainly working on my stuff....though over time, the occasional outside projects would come by which kept me on my toes.

Right now...I'm still hoping to sell some of my songs, which is the main reason I still try to go for a pro quality recording, to the best of my ability and gear...and I've invested a lot of $$$ into something most outsiders would view as chasing an elusive (even silly) dream...but they just don't get it how much the studio and the music are therapeutic and contribute my wellbeing and overall sanity!

Maybe I'll get lucky and sell a couple of tunes (I have some hopes for the album I’m wrapping up)...but if I don't, I will probably STILL be recording with as much focus and seriousness well into my 70s!
I mean...why bother doing it half-way or half-assed...even it's just for your own ears???
I know having $$$ for gear is a big issue for the young guys. Heck, I didn't get into the better/quantity gear until I had a decent paying day gig...but I guess sometimes I just don't understand some of the guys who seem to preface a lot of their comments/questions by saying they are not doing it for any serious reasons...etc…???
Why bother if you are not serious about it?
I mean...if you go play B-ball in the park...are you not serious about the game, about playing well, about winning…even if it’s mainly for fun?
I don't mean that people should be mercilessly serious...but I say to them, don't insult your music by shrugging it off as just a meaningless, no-future hobby.

 

[miroslav]

However, let's not forget that neither Red Bull nor Brawn are really new kids on the block. Brawn rose phoenix-like from the ashes of Honda, whereas Red Bull was Jaguar, which in turn was Stewart Grand Prix . . . so depsite their prominence in the headlines in recent times, there's a fair bit of history behind them.

However, this is an indication of the attractiveness of "a star is born" headlines . . . an unknown and brilliant talent that springs unheralded from nowhere.

The same applies to "overnight sensations" in the music industry. Many of these have been plying their trade for many years before gaining public (sometimes sudden) recognition.

Yes . . . it's time to go, Nakajima. Williams has always been my favourite team, specially when Alan Jones, then Keke Rosberg were there.

Now you guys are talking about something that was a serious pastime for me when I had the time.
Between watching Indy and F-1 races...with some NASCAR thrown in...every Sunday from spring to fall I was glued in front of the TV.

After Senna died....I kinda' drifted away from F-1 after a couple more seasons.
And then there was that whole CART/Indy crap for a few years that totally fucked up that program.
I've been wanting to check in on the F-1 races again, because I always found the road circuits more fun, even if they seemed a bit dull to the American oval enthusiasts.

 

[noisewreck]

However, let's not forget that neither Red Bull nor Brawn are really new kids on the block. Brawn rose phoenix-like from the ashes of Honda, whereas Red Bull was Jaguar, which in turn was Stewart Grand Prix . . . so depsite their prominence in the headlines in recent times, there's a fair bit of history behind them.

That's true, and yes the Brawn car was mainly developed back in 2008 when they gave up on that season. The reason I brought them up is because at the moment, especially in the case of Brawn GP, they don't have nearly the budget that Ferrari, McLaren or Renault have.

2010 looks set to be an interesting year, with 3 new teams. Naturally, I am interested to see who will drive for the USF1 team, and it will be cool to see Lotus return to F1, even if it's more of a Malasian team now.

 

[noisewreck]

even if they seemed a bit dull to the American oval enthusiasts.

Considering that American's like baseball, it's an irony

Although honestly I prefer the motorcycle races, especially MotoGP (both MotoGP and the 250cc class) and World SBK. Out of these MotoGP 250 class has been the most exciting for the past couple of years, just because you never know what Simoncelli will do And in SBK it's been quite a battle between Ben Spies and Nori Haga.

Plus, there is a lot more overtaking with bikes, which makes for a better show.

 

[miroslav]

Yeah...the bike road races are just CRAZY!

That takes some serious balls.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

If you are a home recordist doing your own stuff, you have thought about your hopes and aspirations, and they include phrases such as "commercial success" or "public aclaim", then you should be realistic enough to realise that you have an uphill climb facing you. It's a bit like aiming for the world champion in Formula 1 as a privateer, and having to beat of the multi-million giants such as Ferrari and McLaren. You are pitting your domestic set-up against the tecnnological infrastructure and years of expertise in all facets of the industry. It can be done, but it's difficult: once upon a time Wiliams and McLaren were the Davids against the Goliaths of Ferrari and Renault.

However, your hopes and aspirations may be in different directions. I record my own stuff for a number of reasons: it's fun and enjoyable; I can experiment and develop techniques that will help when I record others; and my recorded material is the equivalent of someone else's diary, or someone else's stamp collection; it's a perosnal record.

I rarely place my music in the public domain, because I am just not interested. I've posted a couple of songs in the MP3 clinic because of some curiosity value, and a couple in the songwriting forum as a response to the challenges.

There are many reasons for home recording, and all are valid; from the intensely private to the thirst for adulation, and all stops in between.

I can see the value in Bongolation's posts. There are many home recordists who seek glory and whose 'desire' equates to a 'right be heard'. They seek the rewards without the effort, a common trait in today's culture of instant gratification and entitlement ("I want, therefore I should have"). I also observe the technological trap that some get caught in (this valve, this mike, this pre-amp is better than that), and twists themselves in knots getting nowhere.

Failure is then blamed on the 'industry' or some other external cause . . . never on themselves.

I've mentioned in other posts that recording is currently going through the same turmoil that the printing industry did a few decades ago with the advent of desktop printing. Printing shifted from the experts with years of experience and expertise to amateurs with their Apples and laser printers. The consequence was a rash of letters, brochures, posters and pamphlets that were graphically awful, semi-literate and lacking in basic fundamentals such as readability.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you can do it well, nor even that you should.

AMEN!

I'd also add that the "this is only home recording" position is also a false premise, in at least two ways:

First, much of what some would call "pro" recording is moving into the home. "Pro" artists and engineers - and I mean Big Boy names with Big Boy credits who work in Big Boy studios and such - are more and more converting parts of their homes into private home studios. Big Box studios are not so slowly closing up and being replaced, at least to a degree, by these home brew studios. "Home recording" does not just mean the college student in a bedroom with an MXL and a Firepod, though that is an important segment of it. The amateur should learn to share this BBS with those with more gear or more experience, because they are as big a part of "home recording" as the frat boys are. And remember that just because someone has engineering experience somewhere or makes music for a living doesn't mean that don't want peer help when it comes to building and running their own home studio.

Second, in the time that I have been here I have observed that the ones who protest that "this is only home recording" are almost always the same demographic of folks who come back in another thread and ask how they can make their recordings sound like pro recordings. As soon as the ask that, they are in reality asking how to make a pro recording. The most direct answer to that is to do it like a pro. No, this does not necessarily mean that you have to have fifty grand of gear (though it helps ), but it does mean that if one really wants to succeed in those desires that they should drop all false pretentions of us vs. them, stop f*cking around and cutting corners out of laziness, and actually start paying attention to how the pro recordings that they so claim to despise - and yet so want to emulate - are done.

G.

 

[gecko zzed]

Let's extend the car analogy a bit.

When I was in my teens, it was cool to trick up your car. So my motoring friends would lower the suspension, put on fat wheels, add Weber carburettors . . . all those things. Red reflector tape was really big in those days! They were emulating what their petrol head racing heroes were doing. Did their cars go faster? Sometimes . . . a bit. Even rarer . . . a lot. Most often . . . the average family sedan would still out perform them. Alas, I was not a tinkerer . . . I was driving a Morris Minor at the time!

This is the danger of technology. We get so caught up in it that we discount the need for a solid basis (a car that is intrinsically designed for going fast . . . or a musical performance that is exceptional), and the recognition that performing exceptionally (either playing, recording or racing a car) requires skill and experience.

This is what Bongolation was saying when he mentioned 'process' and 'outcomes', and his concern was (I think) that some people get locked into the process and lose track of the outcomes, or that they think the outcomes will automatically arise if you work on the process. The other part, though, is 'inputs', i.e. the material you are working with it, and how you manage the process.

But back to important topics. My interested in F1 started in the early 1980's when I started following Alan Jones and Williams. It waned at the turn of the century (or thereabouts) when Ferrari was so dominant. The emergence of Red Bull and Brawn, and Lewis Hamilton has turned the season upside down and made it a whole heap more interesting. Curiously, though I love F1 and catch every telecast, I am singularly uninterested in other forms of motor sport.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Not trying to take us from the Nascar topic but;

I read in "Behind the glass" that most of the engineers interviewed were very impressed with some of the stuff they hear from home studios nowdays...so it isnt out of reach to any of us...all we have to do is get the right stuff and learn how to use it.

 

[noisewreck]

But back to important topics. My interested in F1 started in the early 1980's when I started following Alan Jones and Williams. It waned at the turn of the century (or thereabouts) when Ferrari was so dominant. The emergence of Red Bull and Brawn, and Lewis Hamilton has turned the season upside down and made it a whole heap more interesting. Curiously, though I love F1 and catch every telecast, I am singularly uninterested in other forms of motor sport.

Interesting. I got sucked into F1 when Alonso started to kick Schumacher's butt in 2006
I also really like Hamilton... I just can't stand McLaren as a team, especially when Hakkinen and Coulthard were driving for them, when they asked Coulthard to pull back and basically hand the championship to Hakkinen in the middle of the season, even though he was ahead in the points. Meh, I feel bad for Kimi, going back to the team that gave him so many exploding engines.

 

[noisewreck]

Not trying to take us from the Nascar topic but;

I read in "Behind the glass" that most of the engineers interviewed were very impressed with some of the stuff they hear from home studios nowdays...so it isnt out of reach to any of us...all we have to do is get the right stuff and learn how to use it.

Yes, it is important to get out of that mindset that just because it is a "home recording" it cannot have stellar results. Let's not forget that even with the big studios, some bands have chosen to record in unusual locations (barns, caves, hallways, etc) for acoustical reasons and otherwise.

The main limiting factor is not the environment but lack of knowledge and experience.

As we in the IT field say... "The problem is between the chair and the keyboard"

 

[gecko zzed]

Yes, it is important to get out of that mindset that just because it is a "home recording" it cannot have stellar results. Let's not forget that even with the big studios, some bands have chosen to record in unusual locations (barns, caves, hallways, etc) for acoustical reasons and otherwise.

The main limiting factor is not the environment but lack of knowledge and experience.

As we in the IT field say... "The problem is between the chair and the keyboard"

You reinforce Glen's comments:

First, much of what some would call "pro" recording is moving into the home. "Pro" artists and engineers - and I mean Big Boy names with Big Boy credits who work in Big Boy studios and such - are more and more converting parts of their homes into private home studios. Big Box studios are not so slowly closing up and being replaced, at least to a degree, by these home brew studios. "Home recording" does not just mean the college student in a bedroom with an MXL and a Firepod, though that is an important segment of it.

There is a curious divergence of perspective in this BBS, to which Glen also alludes. On the one hand you have people that ask "how can I sound like a pro?" or "why don't I sound like a pro?", and on the other hand you have people who decry the "Big Boys" (who do make things 'sound like a pro') for destroying the soul of music (and similar travesties).

What this suggests to me is that some people have bought into some stereotypical notions without really examining them properly. Typical of these are "expensive = good, cheap = bad", "mainstream = shallow, fringe = deep", "writing from your heart = sincere, writing on commission = insincere", "pro studio = bad, independent amateur studio = good" and its paradoxical brother as a consequence "pro studio = good, home studio = bad" . . . you can go on endlessly with this list (in fact, I'm half-inclined to ask others to add to it).

None of these stand up to close scrutiny, and many others have already pointed this out elsewhere. But for all that, they still send people up paths that are circular or dead ends.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Yes, it is important to get out of that mindset that just because it is a "home recording" it cannot have stellar results. Let's not forget that even with the big studios, some bands have chosen to record in unusual locations (barns, caves, hallways, etc) for acoustical reasons and otherwise.

The main limiting factor is not the environment but lack of knowledge and experience.

As we in the IT field say... "The problem is between the chair and the keyboard"

The highest selling studio record of all time...at least untill this july was recorded in a stone house on the english countryside called Headly Grange.

 

[noisewreck]

You reinforce Glen's comments:

Yes. And several pages ago I also posted links to a couple of examples of stellar home recording results. One was a Youtube link to Pendulum's "Hold your color", the other was a link to DTrash Recording's site where they release their albums as MP3 downloads for free. These are not "Big Boys", but at least in the case of Pendulum, they certainly have that "Big Boy" sound, you'd think they've tracked things on an SSL rather than done pretty much everything in Cubase using softsynths and other software.

There is a curious divergence of perspective in this BBS, to which Glen also alludes. On the one hand you have people that ask "how can I sound like a pro?" or "why don't I sound like a pro?", and on the other hand you have people who decry the "Big Boys" (who do make things 'sound like a pro') for destroying the soul of music (and similar travesties).

What this suggests to me is that some people have bought into some stereotypical notions without really examining them properly. Typical of these are "expensive = good, cheap = bad", "mainstream = shallow, fringe = deep", "writing from your heart = sincere, writing on commission = insincere", "pro studio = bad, independent amateur studio = good" and its paradoxical brother as a consequence "pro studio = good, home studio = bad" . . . you can go on endlessly with this list (in fact, I'm half-inclined to ask others to add to it).

None of these stand up to close scrutiny, and many others have already pointed this out elsewhere. But for all that, they still send people up paths that are circular or dead ends.

You bring up good points, and perhaps I, myself, have been guilty of similar generalizations, and I have to keep reminding myself that the truth always lies somewhere in-between.

 

[kcearl]

The highest selling studio record of all time...at least untill this july was recorded in a stone house on the english countryside called Headly Grange.

and why was it the best selling album? production values?

 

[darrin_h2000]

Andy Johns did great work...but it wasnt overly polished and reverb sounds were from the rooms.

Other home made big records were the Creed debut and "Uh Huh" by Melencamp...Boston's debut...etc.