I've been researching for a week and I just can't decide on a preamp

[BigRay]

On your list I personally would take the Aphex 207 or RNP.

I recently bought a DAV BG-1 and am very happy with it, but it doesn't have DI inputs.

It can be used to drive a DI...email Mick for details. He has people that do it all the time.

That pre is the bomb...period. 680 bucks for two channels of world class pres...no brainer. good enough for Mark Knopfler and David Gilmour..good enough for me.

 

[tdukex]

The cheapest great sounding mic pre is made by SYTEK. I forgot the model but its 4 channels of neotek recording console mic pre's with jensen transformers.theyonly have gain knob, phantom switch, and phaseswitch for each chanel. They don't have tubes but the jensen transformers sound better than a knock off tube mic pre...

Er...Syteks are transformerless.

You can get Burr Brown op amps, though.

 

[tubedude]

Truthfully, the flat out BEST deal out there is the Onyx preamps. I like them better than the RNP truthfully. And I have an API to compare them to, too, and they arent too far from being in that range. Not quite there, but damn DAMNED good for the money.

 

[James HE]

DON'T BUY CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!!! Spending more on "quality" in the beginning will only benefit you! I know this first hand. I bought cheap three years ago and I haven't had the money to upgrade and EVERYTHING I bought (minus my hd24) has lost nearly all resell value. You buy cheap now, you might as well plan to give the crap away once you realize it's crap and you're ready to upgrade. THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!! If you can make better sounding music for yourself and any clients you pick up, that will be the power for progress. They'll tell their buddies about you and you'll get more business. If your recordings suck, they'll have to pay the first time and then go elsewhere with their business and not speak highly of you or your abilities. Listen to reason!!!!!! Don't be so bold as to say, "I can take this low-end crap and make decent music." Crap gear makes crap records regardless of your skill level. Decent gear (that being the BA312's, RNP, Sytek, and up) makes decent recordings (if you got the skills) and great gear (Neve and the like) makes great recordings (again skills required). You've got to understand how much better off you'll be for making a sound investment from the start. You wouldn't invest in lousy stocks hoping they at least let you break even till you get more money to go after better investments. You go for the better investments at the beginning because those investments have proven themselves to be money makers. SEE THE POINT HERE??????? DON'T BE DECEIVED!!!!!!! BUY BETTER QUALITY FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I disagee.

(not picking on you here chris, your post was easy to grab and quote )

Unless someone works at (or has access to) a big time studio with loads of stuff to play with, it's better to buy cheap now than to wait months months and months and buy later. This, assuming that people's motivation is to make good recordings and good music, not solely for some sort of profit. (Also assuming that they don't already have something they need - I'll shut up now I'm making holes in my own argument lol)

(ok now i pick on you ) If you had waited and waited until you could afford only the best, would you even be set up today? If the 3 years of recording experience you have obtained is worth less to you than the value of your gear (or even the gear you want) your doing this all wrong for the wrong reasons.

There is a fine line, some stuff is crap no matter how you slice it. It's a tricky market out there, it's easy to make bad choices. Just try to get deals where you can. An Aphex 107 isn't a bad "investment" for $100 on ebay. You can sell it for that if maybe a little less. Get 2 and use it till you can get a sytek. Or keep them. You probably will. My gear is "crap" by some standards, my recordings (and just recently) are not by most.

it's crap in = crap out
not
good stuff thorugh crap gear = crap out.


just putting another pespective out there

 

[pikingrin]

it's crap in = crap out
not
good stuff thorugh crap gear = crap out.


just putting another pespective out there

I agree with you James... I guess before the debate gets started over that theory, I should please ask everyone to refrain from discussion until you visit this other thread, here. Just looking out for everyone's well being, that's all...

 

[lumbago]

http://www.instrumentpro.com/P-FOCTMPRO.html

Focusrite Platinum series is vastly under-rated for home recording. If you later add the digital output card and use a decent mic you will get astoundingly good results. You can also put bass and guitar through it with good results.

Useful box.

 

[dcomerford]

pre-amps

first let me say I've been studying this for some while as I can afford a proper
$1000 channel at my age but, I only wanna blow that cash once on the right peice of gear for vox and bass tracking because that is where you would finish a track post production. These threads are great as I was just tracking through my m-audio 2496 and Makie 1202 last year till someone said the summing buss was crap and head straight out of the pre's to your card IO.
That was night and day. After that I paid attention to the pre-amp debate and expected the same miricales.
So, I have the 1202 Vlzs which are decent. Next I bought a Bluetube DP ( nice
clean gain with the tube switched out ( this thing is low voltage so you would not get clean rounding, just more fuzz, and that can sound Ok on certian synth patches but, not vox) I know a guy who owned a studio with PT and 2 matched
Avalon 737 sp's, robbie pre's, Focusrite Isa 430's, Manely Slam. And another pro-mixer who does live sound for NERD and the are both saying it makes a diff.
I track in Cubase SX with a nice set of Waves plugs. A friend bought the FIrePOd and that was a step up ( good clean pre's and out board stable clocking) that made a big diff and the M-Audio delta 44 was tossed out.
I hear a big difference between( M-Audio and FirePod/ Makie 400F Onyx)
I took it because it, the Delta 44, because it was free ( well, that breakout box is wires and some capacitors for noise control; ie. no convertion on the breakout box and it did sap Hi-eq)
I was so impressed with the FirePod $599 street that I went to GC to buy it and then changed my mind and bought the Makie 400F cause you get 192k convertors and four Onyx Pre's which mackie is touting as proper clean pre's and I already have the Presonus Blue Tube DualPath, which I assumme is close to the FirePod pres ( tube OUt)

The result is much brighter and more hi-eq air which I think is cause of the better convertor. The Delta 44 is darker and less defined ( before you get into high end pre's make sure you have quality line in and great monitors)
I'm un-impressed with the delta 44 now that I've heard better.
I order a 737Sp cause I can but Sweetwater can't deliver for 30days and can't define a delivery date). One of the studio owners has been kind enough to loan me a UA 6176 ( 610B tube pre-amp, and 1176LN compressor; 2k of top flight kit)
The difference is subtle, which speaks to how good the low end $200 pre-amps have become. But, there are no night a day differences anymore.

The 610B by itself tracks much hotter and nicer compared to the Pro-sonus
and Onyx but, bear in mind, that the 610 is tube and drivable making it do a little compression thing on its own. That mild tube driving helps soften the harsh truth of frett buzz and sylbis shhh in the mic.
I usually track in SX and print a little compression through the Renniasance Channel plug ( nice transparent compressor with L1 brick limit on the back end) all software compressors are better than analog until you have 2 grand to blow just for the fact of super clean make up gain a instant transient control.
Now, I had a hard time telling the diff. The 1176 doesn't blow me away compared to modern pluggins with "look ahead limiting" So, I made three tracks with the the 6176UA, Onyx 400F pre /Renn. Waves Plug, Blue Tube DP/ Renn. Waves plug ( no tube engaged), and it was damn hard to tell the diff. on an SM57, MK319, GT55 Groove tubes class A FET, and Bass direct.
The 6176 is darker mellower hi-eq ( pleasent shhish) over the Mackie which is brighter than both the Bluetube DP and 6176.
Is the 2k UA6176 better? yes, but it an esotaric 5% better and only better at bass and vox to my ears. Tannoy passive near fields.

The Fire POD is nice with better convetors and outboard clock ( gitter smear)
on PCI stuff or cheaper cards...the 2496 was better than Delta 44 breakout but there is a lot of EF and crap going on there at the PCI buss.
I would go with a Firebox if you don't need the IO and the clean pre-amps.
I have the Pro Sonous bluetube DP and the tube part is a fuzzy gimmick ( not high voltage, so no clean rounding compression harmonic effect)
but, its nice in clean mode ( tube out).
The biggest diff. is in microphones ; dramactic.
So the Bluetube DP sounds better on vox cause its darker than the Mackie Onxy which would pick up a cymbal crash sharper.
Good waves pluggins or the UAD card with great vintage compressors and EQ models are going to give you the most bang for the buck.
These "light bulb" tube boxs are a crap and you are better served with a clean pre and $199 copy of Ozone 3 mastering plug. Use the multi-band harmonic enhancer in tube mode for stellar control over harmonic tube or tape
saturation enhancement.
BTW the 6176 UA sounds smooth in hi-EQ but its 5% better, which may add up after summing 16tracks...but, track to track compared to the Bluetube or makie pre you can barely...hardly... tell the diff...the mic's have very distinct change on timbre.
Don't listen to the guys about channel strips because of course with an opto compressor behind your pre, you will print a hot signal to disk which is the way it had to be back in the day. But, with good plug's like UAD, Waves or
T-racks you can print to hard drive "fat" full tracks with only 5ms delay which no one can hear. Voxengo makes the "warmafier" which models 6 tubes and
impares subtle 3rd oder harmonics and hi-eq deffusion.
Steinberg Magneto on the Makie Onyx had way more retro charator than the 6176 UA strip and I could use the hi-eq contour to smooth off the harsher
"shhish" truth that the onyx is letting through.
dc
dc

 

[tennbidder]

I bought my Aphex 207 off EBAY.

For my purposes, it has worked out just fine.

 

[chris-from-ky]

(ok now i pick on you ) If you had waited and waited until you could afford only the best, would you even be set up today? If the 3 years of recording experience you have obtained is worth less to you than the value of your gear (or even the gear you want) your doing this all wrong for the wrong reasons.

If I had waited, I would've, in the very least, seen the DDX3216 drop drastically in price and be discontinued. There's a red flag! Sure I've gained some valuable experience from owning crap. When I try to share that experience with others to save them the trouble, folks like you show up to say the following:

it's crap in = crap out
not
good stuff thorugh crap gear = crap out.


just putting another pespective out there

While I agree that performance will make or break a recording faster than any gear used, I also know that for me, I believe I am enough of a perfectionist in music that when I hear crap in the playback, it's the gear. But, if I'm wrong about that, what better way to make myself give better performances than to take the crappy gear out of the equasion all together. Then all I'm left with is my (possibly) flawed performance. Then if I suck it's because "I" suck and not the gear holding me back from making great recordings.

And by the way, I'm not picking on you either.

 

[tc4b]

I always learn on cheap gear, then upgrade. I hate haviong a new doodad that has an intimidating array of features I might never use. For example, I started on an Echo Darla and Cool Edit SE. When I felt I was using all the features and they still weren't enough, I upgraded to a digi001 and protools LE. I think I'm ready for another jump soon.

This is how I'm learning and growing. My first compressor is an RNC, which has exactly five knobs. Perfect. I haven't even begun to explore all of the possibilities. And I won't spend another nickel on compression until I've exhausted all of the possibilities and found it wanting.

Saying nothing but pro grade top shelf stuff is worth buying or using is really snobby. Plenty of us use what you'd call "crap" and learn a lot from it.

 

[chris-from-ky]

I always learn on cheap gear, then upgrade...

Saying nothing but pro grade top shelf stuff is worth buying or using is really snobby. Plenty of us use what you'd call "crap" and learn a lot from it.

TC4B - I appreciate your comments. First, I'll say if I were learning how to use gear, I'd follow your advice. I already know how to use mics, pres, mixers, and recorders. The problem is that in my mind there is a standard that I would like to acheive. I figure if I record a song to the best of my ability and I don't hear the standard of quality I desire, I want more. The gear is as much as weak link as my abilities may be. why not get better gear to get a more honest look at your actual abilities. If I still couldn't reach the quality I want, then i KNOW it's me and I can begin to make positive change for the better. I'm not trying to be snobby here. I just think that if you're going to give somebody advice, it may as well be the best you could give. From my experience, my advice is the best I have to offer. Take it or leave it.

 

[MOFO Pro]

Buy the best gear that you can reasonably afford... scaled to what your final goals are. If your just going to "mess around in it" then there's no need to spend a fortune on gear you'll never truly exploit. But if you've got a critical ear, and want a professional product, buy once... not often...

But most importantly... buy what makes you happy... what sounds good to you. Opinions are like... well you know what they say... everybody's got one... but a quick look around should prove that some are much better than others.

 

[chris-from-ky]

Buy the best gear that you can reasonably afford... scaled to what your final goals are. If your just going to "mess around in it" then there's no need to spend a fortune on gear you'll never truly exploit. But if you've got a critical ear, and want a professional product, buy once... not often...

Well said. I agree with you totally. Those who seek only to dabble in recording need only use gear that can be had inexpensively. For those of us who seek audiophile quality whether for ourselves or for clients, the more of our hard earned cash we have to invest into it and the more we need to work out any bugs in our abilities. That's what it all boils down to really.

 

[earworm]

i stick to my point,
i know a SHITLOAD of people that want to have a home studio,
most of them just buy crap thats worthless and has no value to sell later on,

i buy dirt cheap equipment, but i buy QUALITY !

dbx 163x
symetrix 501
symetrix 522
dod 825
ashly cl50
...

there are tons of vintage compressors that KICK ASS and blow away EVERY SINGLE lowbudget compressor built somewhere the past ten years

i got most of my stuff for around $50 / $ 100 or MAX $200 a piece

i don't buy crap, i investigate months or years so i know what kinda sound i want and then i start buying,
i record, and when i can i sell my machines for more money,
yes, i buy my stuff on ebay, get fucked every six months by some evil seller, but i do have my room full of great stuff,
then i sell my vintage american equipment to my local homies for alot more money since its impossible to buy vintage gear if u don't have a credit card

its no use to buy one great mic and use crap in the rest of your signal path,
start low, buy wise and not expensive,
i think i can make a better recording with 8 dbx163x's than with one €1200 urei 1176

but of course forget about behdinger,samson, alto and everything else that has fivethousand knobs on it

this is the way i do it, lots of people might not like this method but it works great for me, i know enough people that are jaleaus of my stuff, and i didn't spend THAT much on it !

 

[pohaku]

There is "inexpensive" and there is "cheap." They are not the same thing. Older Symetrix stuff is inexpensive, but it isn't cheap gear. It's really well made and sounds good. You can bottom feed in terms of $$$ but end up with decent quality used gear that will largely hold its value and provide very acceptable results. Harvey Gerst, for example, is a master at identifying this stuff and certainly shares his finds. E.g., DBX 242 @$100 each for good low budget EQ. They aren't Millennia NSEQ2s, but they don't cost $2200 each either.