Is this SCARY music or NOT music at all? Mix and all other opinions please!
- Thread starter dreamer7
- Start date
Wow, this one's really set the cat among the pigeons! I knew it wouldn't be to everyone's taste, but the question of 'Is it music or not?' is possibly quite an important one.Thanks to you all for your fascinating comments so far (even you Greg!). Absolutely interesting discussion going on here.
I've been too busy to reply yet and need to shoot out now, but I'll get around to posting tomorrow sometime to add my humble opinions.
Until later,
dreamer7
Apologies for the no-show replies today. Just too much on at the moment and as it's 2am here in the UK, I need to catch up with sleep if I'm to feel like a human later 
There's a lot to think about in the replies to this thread so far, so I need to be fully awake for that.
Cheers to all,dreamer7
TerraMortim
New member
Fantastic. I'm really liking some of the textures and sounds. Some of it is really disorienting. What did you make it with? Is it mostly synths, or manipulations of audio waveforms?
All the people who don't t hink this is music need to open their mind a bit.. There is no point to which dissonance or arhythmic elements become something that isn't music, the same as there's no thought of that happening at the polar opposite ends of the spectrum. And like was said before, listen closely to it, there's subtle rhythms and melodies all over the place... just not obvious ones.
All the people who don't t hink this is music need to open their mind a bit.. There is no point to which dissonance or arhythmic elements become something that isn't music, the same as there's no thought of that happening at the polar opposite ends of the spectrum. And like was said before, listen closely to it, there's subtle rhythms and melodies all over the place... just not obvious ones.
TerraMortim
New member
I'm sorry, but I don't buy any of it.
This is a nice recording of just sounds. That's all. There's nothing "musical" about it. If you wanna get all artsy-fartsy about it, then go right ahead. I won't try to stop you. I hear it for what it is - just random sound.
Sound, even at random is still music...music is just sound manipulated in the first place...a drum is just a skin pulled over a hollow piece of wood that we smack in order to get a manipulated sound that we recognize as a musical sound. I guitar is just a noisebox that we've figured out how to get the particular frequencies that we've decided upon in the last few hundred years in western society to be "acceptable", by plucking some bits of wire and pulling the wire tighter and looser, and then amplifying it, often heavily distorting the amplification. In this type of ambient/experimental production, the manipulations are created in and post recording, rather than with a physical object and allowing the recording to just document what sound even was happening in real space. There really is nothing that makes our more popularly recognized "musical" instruments musical different than any other thing that exists in nature...
There is no such thing as music until we say there is. If we weren't taught that the sounds of a violin were musical, it would just sound like someone scraping some wire. Or if we weren't conditioned that a drum is specifically a musical instrument, there would be no distinction between someone playing a drum, or someone slamming their arms on a garbage can.
TerraMortim
New member
if you intend it to be. Just the same that anyone can manipulate their vocal cords to produce a melody...I assure you more people can do that, than people who can set up a mic and record anything. Even tiny children, and the severely mentally retarted can create some sort of musical tone with their voice.
TerraMortim
New member
Absollutely, just the same as you can slam your hands together in a clapping sound, or snap your fingers, or stomp your feet, or even manipulate your vocal cords to vibrate at a certain frequency..It might be a little silly to listen to, since us humans find the sound and act of farting to be particularly amusing, but there is always a thing called humour that works jsut fine in music.
Vagodeoz
One-Man-Band
Funny, before seeing this I had downloaded John Cage's "Music of Changes"...
Way less interesting than I thought, that... "random music"...
I LOOOOVE and I mean L-O-V-E Stravinsky, especially his Rite of Spring, but this is waaaay too random to be considered music. It's more like an "assorted collage of nature sounds and special effects".
On movies there are moments that in the back someone is eventually watching tv and there is a song playing. Now that is a little piece of music into a sound track. Doesn't mean that everything else that you hear before, after, and during that little piece of music, is also music.
Then the channel changes and it's on a news channel. That's not music, even if it's in the same soundtrack, even coming through the same tv.
If you take little pieces of music and many random sounds and put them in a blender, you won't have
a musical piece. You will have music and random sounds.
And btw, the tiny pieces of music are barely noticeable.
Nothing against you dreamer7, I just think things shouldn't be called something they are not. Like when black metal purists start complaining about all the gay/fake black metal bands that uses melodies, have decent production, uses keyboards and their bandmembers don't live in the forest.
I think it's ridiculous, but hell, they started the black metal, and if that is what black metal is, then I guess that's it, weather I like it or not. That is why when people ask me about my band's genre I say "fake black metal"
Way less interesting than I thought, that... "random music"...
I LOOOOVE and I mean L-O-V-E Stravinsky, especially his Rite of Spring, but this is waaaay too random to be considered music. It's more like an "assorted collage of nature sounds and special effects".
On movies there are moments that in the back someone is eventually watching tv and there is a song playing. Now that is a little piece of music into a sound track. Doesn't mean that everything else that you hear before, after, and during that little piece of music, is also music.
Then the channel changes and it's on a news channel. That's not music, even if it's in the same soundtrack, even coming through the same tv.
If you take little pieces of music and many random sounds and put them in a blender, you won't have
a musical piece. You will have music and random sounds.
And btw, the tiny pieces of music are barely noticeable.
Nothing against you dreamer7, I just think things shouldn't be called something they are not. Like when black metal purists start complaining about all the gay/fake black metal bands that uses melodies, have decent production, uses keyboards and their bandmembers don't live in the forest.
I think it's ridiculous, but hell, they started the black metal, and if that is what black metal is, then I guess that's it, weather I like it or not. That is why when people ask me about my band's genre I say "fake black metal"
TerraMortim
New member
you see...I dissagree...and for what reason? Well.. here's my reason. I've made things like this, and I can assure you, sometimes what seems to be random is very organized. I have composed some arhythmic drone type pieces and every time I have, it's been very organized and actually quite structured...the structure is usually more subtle..letting the brain be entranced by whatever atmosphere is created, instead of the structure getting in the way. If I listen to this piece, I believe I can hear a bit of structure...albiet very different structure to convention (FUCK CONVENTION!). Music is manipulating noise in an emotional way. If this piece was devoid of emotion, then I might see more stock in the arguement of it not being music. That's not the case however. What seems random, isn't always so. Sometimes the patterns are too slow, or sublime to conciously notice, especially with this kind of music...
TerraMortim
New member
A great example of a movie score without a single "musical" note in it, that is definately music..check out the score for the movie Session 9..it's very cool.
oh Black Metal analogy...remember Emperor? There were always lots of keyboards on them, and they're considered of the classic Black Metal variety...and the production, while harsh and a little blurred, was very good in the way that it perpetuated the mood with perfection, and was always a little higher quality than the rest of the BM bands. =D Darkthrone was almost exclusively melody...sometimes even borderline pretty melodies...and older Ulver, nothing but melodic (even if the earlier demos had the worst production, that make underground gutter punk records sound like the black album)...etc... The fucktardds saying that don't know shit (which is so prevelant in the Black Metal scene in the first place.) It's hillarious the ammount of people that bought seriously into the image of it all (even some of the bands)... The bands they usually refer to in that way are always some demo recordings when the members were 15 and 16 years old, where it was a cassette tape recorded rehearsal of them trying to emulate the underground thrash metal that was going on at the time, and just take it to a higher level of extreme.. like even the old Darkthrone demos from the 80s... it sounded a bit like kreator with more reverb on the vocals.
oh Black Metal analogy...remember Emperor? There were always lots of keyboards on them, and they're considered of the classic Black Metal variety...and the production, while harsh and a little blurred, was very good in the way that it perpetuated the mood with perfection, and was always a little higher quality than the rest of the BM bands. =D Darkthrone was almost exclusively melody...sometimes even borderline pretty melodies...and older Ulver, nothing but melodic (even if the earlier demos had the worst production, that make underground gutter punk records sound like the black album)...etc... The fucktardds saying that don't know shit (which is so prevelant in the Black Metal scene in the first place.) It's hillarious the ammount of people that bought seriously into the image of it all (even some of the bands)... The bands they usually refer to in that way are always some demo recordings when the members were 15 and 16 years old, where it was a cassette tape recorded rehearsal of them trying to emulate the underground thrash metal that was going on at the time, and just take it to a higher level of extreme.. like even the old Darkthrone demos from the 80s... it sounded a bit like kreator with more reverb on the vocals.
Accepting any old sound you come across as "music" is chickenshit. I don't accept one guy whacking one drum as music. If you do, then you need to raise your standards a bit. If someone tells you their noise is music, and you blindly buy into it, you are gullible. It's okay to be skeptical. It's okay to say, "you know, that sucks." It's okay to not buy into whatever "art" is put in front of you.
As I said already, this is a very nice recording of sound. It ain't music to me. There's nothing musical about it. Don't try to tell me otherwise.
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Time just hasn't been with me lately, so no way I can reply to all these different thoughts yet, but in the meantime and just out of interest, here's a quote from someone else that understood where I was coming from with this track and liked it for what it is, whether seen as music or just as sounds: "It's got a really compelling air to it. The more you listen the more drawn inside it you become. Quite enchanting in an off-world kind of way. Iain, whose a reasonably successful recording engineer, was very appreciative of the nice multi-layering you've constructed. The overall feeling about it, is that it would make a great soundtrack for a space based movie. Very 2001: A Space Odyssey!"
Like I said at the beginning of this thread, I know this stuff isn't for everyone, but maybe this added quote might help some to listen in a new light (or maybe not
).Oh well, I can but try. Hopefully, I'll be posting again in a couple of days to reply and also put a post here and there to some of the other threads that have grabbed my attention (watch out Greg!
). Until later,dreamer7
Beauty is in the (ear) of the beholder.
It sounds like maybe you stuck a mic out the window somewhere in LA or Chicago.
It reminds me of the commercial for who knows what where the 'artist' sez..." would you believe that I created this in only 5 minutes?"
Um....yeah.
Scary?? no
Sophomoric?? yes.
The coolest part of musique concrete is that you get unlimited do-overs.
chazba
It sounds like maybe you stuck a mic out the window somewhere in LA or Chicago.
It reminds me of the commercial for who knows what where the 'artist' sez..." would you believe that I created this in only 5 minutes?"
Um....yeah.
Scary?? no
Sophomoric?? yes.
The coolest part of musique concrete is that you get unlimited do-overs.
chazba
Watch out for what? A recording of your toilet flushing? Maybe some birds chirping?
Ah, ya sussed me out. Good to see that you got the humour in my remark and added some of your own – nice one. You're gonna luv this, because funnily enough, I HAVE already used a recording of my toilet flushing in an older track (not one that's on Soundclick, by the way). It was an experiment I did a few years ago in which I recorded various household sounds and overlaid them, to create a piece that I submitted to a competition being run by the Sonic Arts Network 
( oh dear, there's that 'Art' word again and I'll probably get slated for using it!). My toilet has a particularly long lasting and quite strange sounding flush, so why not add that I thought! The finished track actually sounded good, to me and some others at any rate, and gave the impression that a synth was being used much of the time, when in actual fact I didn't even add any effects at all to the original sounds. True musique concréte that worked surprisingly well and was good fun to do.
And yep, I'll definitely be using the ol' chirping birds classic at some point, but haven't got around to that one yet. It's been overused by plenty of people really, but I'm sure there's more that can be done with it yet! I'll save it for much later, as I'll be doing some so-called 'normal and proper' music soon and leave the really experimental stuff for a short while. Variety is the spice of life and all that.
It doesn't all necessarily have to be taken so seriously, or it can be, all depending on who listens and where their head is at the time. Absolutely anything in life can be all things to some people and nothing to others!I'll pop back later, as it's very late again,
dreamer7
michaelwookey
New member
hi
I couldn't be bothered to read all the replies to this, but I did listen to it and I think the question of whether I liked it or not is not relevant.
What I want to say is that I think it is music, certainly. John Cage's 4:33 is music and so is Aphex Twin, who sometimes just uses sounds in no particular rhythm or anything. This stuff is more musical than that. Check out the soundtrack to 2001 - the part where they're travelling through a weird time space thing with lots of light - it's all done with voices and I used to think it was just improvised but I learned recently that it was actually scored very particularly to get the sound he wanted.
I think it's not worth saying "this isn't music" if you can't define what music is. I've given up trying - it's as vague as the "what is art?" question. I think it's just in the eye of the maker, and if someone says it's art or music, then it is. It's impossible to even say if something is good when you think of things this way.
Anyway, yes.
XX
I couldn't be bothered to read all the replies to this, but I did listen to it and I think the question of whether I liked it or not is not relevant.
What I want to say is that I think it is music, certainly. John Cage's 4:33 is music and so is Aphex Twin, who sometimes just uses sounds in no particular rhythm or anything. This stuff is more musical than that. Check out the soundtrack to 2001 - the part where they're travelling through a weird time space thing with lots of light - it's all done with voices and I used to think it was just improvised but I learned recently that it was actually scored very particularly to get the sound he wanted.
I think it's not worth saying "this isn't music" if you can't define what music is. I've given up trying - it's as vague as the "what is art?" question. I think it's just in the eye of the maker, and if someone says it's art or music, then it is. It's impossible to even say if something is good when you think of things this way.
Anyway, yes.
XX
rayc
retroreprobate
The realtionship between such music & scarey is usually due to the fact that modern &/or avant garde composers couldn't make a crust, were desperate for ANY opportunity to record, were reduced to taking a pittance for their work which was usually, as in more often than any other group, were chosen by exploitation flick makers because they knew they could exploit the composer.
Now they just use 80's stuff.
Now they just use 80's stuff.
yes
yes, music
somewhat, scary
I used to do stuff like this years ago, where the instrumentation was much more primative (wind up toys, etc.).
I enjoyed it, too. But that isn't what makes it music. I think that what makes anything music is the intent of the artist. If you say it is music, then it is.
t
yes, music
somewhat, scary
I used to do stuff like this years ago, where the instrumentation was much more primative (wind up toys, etc.).
I enjoyed it, too. But that isn't what makes it music. I think that what makes anything music is the intent of the artist. If you say it is music, then it is.
t