Is this right?

  • Thread starter Thread starter slash81291
  • Start date Start date
S

slash81291

New member
My plan is to buy my mics, send them to a focusrite octopre (pinions on this?) then buy the ADAT converter card and send that to an ADAT card in my computer(suggestions?) Then with that, I need a program(Suggestions?) I do live stuff like Zeppelin, Guns N' Roses and some other semi heavy/rock bands. I will also be using the tascam us2400 control surface via usb 2.0

Thanks for the help!

Mike
 
Also, Anyother suggestions for my mic pres? I need atleast 8.

Id like to basically go mics or instruments > pre > comp > interface

Recomend me mic pres, what I need to connect that to my computer, a program.

also, wherw ould I put my monitors/ headphones?

also what would you recomend for monitors?

thanks

mike
 
Behringer makes an 8 channel pre that will convert to digital to send to your ADAT card. It is one of the few products that they make that everyone seems to love.
 
Ok, I just got confuzed. Say on the program, I want to have like three vox tracks. On the mic pre, I would have it broken up like, snare, overhead, overhead, kickdrum, vox, guitar, bass, keyboard.

But!

If Im in the program, all the stuff is in their mic pre, and I am tracking. If I want to add another vocal track, I dont need another mic pre, do I? Like I guess what I mean is that, can I just have one mic dedicated to guitar. Plus that mic into the pic pre. Then send that signal to my computer. Use the program, but record multiple tracks from it?

Thanks,

Mike.


What programs would you recomend?

Protools? cakewalk?
 
ok, I dont think i am understanding this correctly.

Once again.

My goal is to record my band. I also would like to be able to record up to 8 tracks simultaneously. And be able to make a song by tracking parts at different times.

I would like this to be digital because what I hear is that for the price, you get much better quality in the digital than analog domain.

I will use an sm58 for vox
The rest will be sm57's and one mic for bass.

this will give me 6 mics. and I will use a keyboard and bass direct in.

I have a very powerful computer that would undoubtly meet any required specs you could throw at it.

I think from my research that I would like to plug my mics into a preamp, that would enable me to go via firewire or some sort of connection to my computer. I would then like to work in a program (suggestions?) and use a control surface (tascam us2400) for mixing and control. (I like the feel of hardware.)

Where in this would I connect headphones for the person tracking and for playback. Wherew would I plug in my studio monitors? (suggestions?)

Id say that there is about a 3-5000 budget.


Thanks,

Mike
 
slash81291 said:
ok, I dont think i am understanding this correctly.

Once again.

My goal is to record my band. I also would like to be able to record up to 8 tracks simultaneously. And be able to make a song by tracking parts at different times.

I would like this to be digital because what I hear is that for the price, you get much better quality in the digital than analog domain.

I will use an sm58 for vox
The rest will be sm57's and one mic for bass.

this will give me 6 mics. and I will use a keyboard and bass direct in.

I have a very powerful computer that would undoubtly meet any required specs you could throw at it.

I think from my research that I would like to plug my mics into a preamp, that would enable me to go via firewire or some sort of connection to my computer. I would then like to work in a program (suggestions?) and use a control surface (tascam us2400) for mixing and control. (I like the feel of hardware.)

Where in this would I connect headphones for the person tracking and for playback. Wherew would I plug in my studio monitors? (suggestions?)

Id say that there is about a 3-5000 budget.


Thanks,

Mike
Click to expand...


Wow. Well, do you want me to put together a list of stuff you would need? I have done it before for members but on a much lower budget. Of course, you don't know me so my opinion might be shite.
 
Yeah, 3-5 grand is a great start for this... Here's some basics to get you started:

Any recording system has a chain - often called the signal chain. A basic signal chain in a computer situation will look something like this: Source (the sound) -> Mic/Di -> Preamp -> (in) Interface/soundcard -> Computer software -> (out) Interface -> Monitors. On top of this, you might have outboard effects, a CD-R deck, etc...But most basic systems are made up of mics, pres, interfaces software and monitors. On top of all this, you need to consider the cost of cabling (XLR, TRS, Instrument) and treating your recording room to control the sound (often neglected)

What you need to figure out is what do you have, what do you want, and what are you trying to end up with! Seeing that you're using all 58's and 57's and you have a 3-5 grand budget I see that you're not seeing the bigger picture. Sorry if this isn't what you want, but let me make my suggestions, coming from the perspective of "I wish that I knew what I know now...When I was where you are"... I'm going to go through each stage and use up some of your budget

Mics - any basic home studio can get away with 5 mics... 1 Large Diapraghm Condensor (LDC), 1 large Dynamic, 2 (matching) Small Diapraghm Condensors (SDC), and one medium dynamic. After the basic 5 you can get more specialized and get more variety. i also recommend getting a good DI. What I suggest getting are first in the lists but there's options:

LDC - AT 4040 (200 used), CAD M179 (150 used), MXL V67 (75? used), Rode NTK (325 used), SP C1 (140 used)
L dynamic - AKG D112 (150 used), Beta 52 (150 used), RE 20 (250? used), Senn MD421 (250? used)
SDC's (matched pair): Oktava (russian) MK-012's (200 used), MXL 603 or 604's (150? used), JM 27's (100 used)
Dynamic - SM57 (60 used), Audix i5 (dunno), Senn e609 (75 used)
DI - Radial JDI (150 used)

THe budget you use up with the first in the list choices: About 600 used - about 850 new.

Preamps - going to be a lot of choices for you here. Some people like having lots of variety, some like having lots of the same types. I think that it's good to have good, reliable "workhorse" pres - a set of 4-8 of the exact same pres that you can always use, even though you might get more and better pres. Some Pre's come with DI's built in so you can eliminate the need for a dedicated DI (though the JDI will likely be a better DI...)Here's some suggestions:

8 pres: Octane (450 used), Octopre LE (500 used)
2 pres - RNP (350 used), DMP3 (125 used)

For eight channels you're looking at somewhere between 450 and 1000 dollars. DON'T SKIMP HERE. If you can afford it, get the best you can get, it'll pay off later, especially when you layer many tracks together.

Interfaces - Two major options: PCI and Firewire. I have PCI, and I've used Firewire. Both work fine and both give you some great options. At your budget There's variety but I don't know whether one or the other will give you a huge quality difference. Here's what I suggest -

PCI - M Audio Delta 1010 (300 used, 450 new)
Firewire - Motu 828 (600 used, 750 new), Presonus Firepod (450 used, 600 new)

I use the 1010 and I love it. I highly recommend it.

Software - Again you'll have a lot of variety and preference. There's only so many choices, and they're all going to do the job you want. There's everything from free products to expensive ones. Look at Cubase, Sonor, Logic, Pro Tools, and any others you can find at your local store. MAKE sure you buy your software - another thing that pays of in the long run!!

Monitors - DON'T SKIMP HERE EITHER. Probably one of the most crucial elements of mixing is the ability to accurately hear your music! What's critical here is that you get 'balanced' 'reference' 'monitors' - not stage or home speakers, not headphones nothing like that. Here's some suggestions:

Monitors - Event 20/20 BAS (900 new), Event TR8 (500 new), Mackie HR824 (1200 new), Tannoy Reveal 8D (1400 New)

Cables and other things - you'll need a headphone monitor, Headphones, Cables, Stands, Racks, storage things, a pop filter, and probably a whole buch of other things I can't think of right now. Also, it sounds like you'll need a Midi Controllor by what you were saying. I recommend you get the Beri Headphone unit (100 bucks), the Beri Midi controller(s) (200 - there's 2 kinds so 400?), MoreMe headphones (30x4= 120), build/make or have ME build/make you cables (4-500 bucks), cheap stand package (100), a cheap pop filter (25), an SKB rack (150) and use rubbermaid buckets to store your cables and mics and things.

So trying to total it up (without room stuff):
Mics: 650
Pres: 800
Interface: 450
Software: 500
Monitors: 1000
Miscelanious: 1200
Total: 4600 buckerooskis...

Leaving you to figure out what to do about room and sound absorbtion from John Sayer's website and forum... http://johnlsayers.com/

Tell me what you think and if you have any questions or need any help collecting all this let me know... jacobkokura@yahoo.com

Jacob
 
Thanks guys!

I have been over to johns board before and suprisingly understood those concepts much better than the actual recording!

:rolleyes:

So,

If this is right, I would basically need to set up a system like..

Mics or di > pre's (octopre or octopre le or octane?) > an interface (delta 1010 oe the firepod) > computer > us2400 control surface via firewire.

What would you recomend as a good card to connect the interface to my computer?

Also, about mic choice, I am going to do all instruments besides drums with sm57's. I know it might sound like a bad idea, but every instance ive heard something recorded with them I absolutly love.

But, if you wouldnt mind, what are some good mics for drums?
I will mic kick,snare,2 overheads.

Thanks


Mike
 
slash81291 said:
Thanks guys!

I have been over to johns board before and suprisingly understood those concepts much better than the actual recording!

:rolleyes:

So,

If this is right, I would basically need to set up a system like..

Mics or di > pre's (octopre or octopre le or octane?) > an interface (delta 1010 oe the firepod) > computer > us2400 control surface via firewire.

What would you recomend as a good card to connect the interface to my computer?

Also, about mic choice, I am going to do all instruments besides drums with sm57's. I know it might sound like a bad idea, but every instance ive heard something recorded with them I absolutly love.

But, if you wouldnt mind, what are some good mics for drums?
I will mic kick,snare,2 overheads.

Thanks


Mike
Click to expand...

Did you read my post? I answered all your questions in the above, and the us 2400 is a waste of your time.

Read the Mic section to answer your question about mics. Read the interface question to answer your questions about the interface. After that, go to Google and look the products up! If you want to know whether a 1010 comes with a card, go look at M Audio's website!

I spoon fed you all the info you're wanting.

Jacob
 
jkokura said:
Did you read my post? I answered all your questions in the above, and the us 2400 is a waste of your time.

Read the Mic section to answer your question about mics. Read the interface question to answer your questions about the interface. After that, go to Google and look the products up! If you want to know whether a 1010 comes with a card, go look at M Audio's website!

I spoon fed you all the info you're wanting.

Jacob
Click to expand...

How is the 2400 a waste of my time?

I personally HATE to control this stuff on a mouse, so I figured thats what I could use.

Well, I dont know.

If I got a mixer like a mackie 24x4, how would I integrate that into the studio?

I assume that the mic pre's in it are somewhat "better" or on par with the octane or octopre?

If I got that, would I just do instruments/mics to that. then how would I send that to my computer?

How would I go about mastering and mixing with that mixer?

I think it would help me if I go to a store to see these things in person to get a better feel for the connections and hardware id need!

thanks,

Mike
 
The US 2400 is just old technology...I had it described to me that it's like getting a Pentium 3 when there's Athlon 64's available for cheaper.

I did suggest an alternative in my post above (see miscelanious). You don't need to get a mixer, but that is one possibility. I would instead go with a cheaper USB/Midi controller like the Behringer B-Control line (search for the website). I use a rotary one and I don't have to use my mouse much at all. I got one for 125 used I think... The US2400 gives you less than the Beri units for a lot more price.

A totally different idea would be to look at M Audio's Mroject Mix - it'll give you the interface (firewire) like the 1010, plus give you an ADAT in. It also gives you the motorized control. The reason I didn't suggest it earlier was that it eats up quite a bit of you budget. A benefit to getting this option is that you can use Pro Tools (M Powere) which will help launch you into the 'pro' world of Pro Tools. Check it out here http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProjectMixIO-main.html

For 1500 bucks you can get the interface, Software and controllor.

Check this updated pricing for this other option..
Interface/controller: 1200 (Project Mix)
Software: 300 (Pro Tools M Powered)
Mics: 800 (6 in total - 2 57's, 1 LDC like the AT 4040, 1 D112 for kick and bass, 2 SDC's for acoustic and overheads)
Monitors: 1000 (Event 20/20 BAS)
Miscelanious: 1000 (headphones, cables, stands, etc.
Pres: 600 (Used Octane/Octopre and 1 used DMP3/RNP)

Total: 4900 bucks.

If you need a website for every piece I can do that for you, but I really suggest you start using Google and find them yourself. And if you want a good online store, check out www.music123.com or sweetwater or musicians friend...these will help you with prices. Also search for the products I've mentioned on this board and it will help you understand why and how they're used.

Jacob
 
Ok, I read a little more.

How would this be?

I take y our suggestion for mics or use direct in for bass etc. into a mackie 24x4 or onyx 16. With these, I will use the pre's they come with until funds enable me to buy really nice pre's.( I hear mackie's arent that cheap). Then I can have effects in a send/return to the mixer. Then Id get some monitors, and put them to the mixer. I would connect my headphones to the mixer aswell.

If I go with the 24x4, I would need an audio interface? So I would get one and then go to my computer.

If not, would it be better to get an Alesis (sp?) 24 track recorder?.


Remember, my goals are to be able to record a full band simultaneously, be able to go back and add tracks at different times, and also get atleast a half assed sound out of it!

With either setup, would it be better for my purposes then going completly digital?

thanks

Mike
 
It's up to you. I just told you what I think - was where you are once, and now I'm here and I wish I knew what I told you when I was where you are. If you want to get a board then get one. It's all up to you.

I still think that you should go mics - pres - interface - computer - interface - monitors with a simple Beri controller using USB. It's simple, easy, cheap and good.

jacob
 
Ok,

Basically all i want to know is if my above stated rig would work with what my goals are.

I would like to have hardware because I like having things that I can actually control with my hands.

So, I hear that it is a decent set up, having mics>mackie 24x4or8 >recorder.

Now, what I dont understand (the one thing holding me back)

I dont get how this would work with an analog mixer. Say that I decide to do that and i get my mics into my mixer. then into an alesis 24 track recorder. The way it would work, is that we record our tracks simultaneously, and it is then effected by the mixer. then during that it goes live into the recorder where it stops. i would be able to rewind the recorder and add other tracks correct? How does that make the mixer useful? do I use it during mixdown or mastering?

I guess what I somewhat gather is that when i record the tracks rough, I then send it back into the mixer and effects then out again?


Im lost, I wont buy a mixer if all it does is help with the initial recording.


thanks

Mike

p.s. my AIM sn is thelocals81291 if you have AIM and would like to help me via IM then feel free.
 
Mackie Onyx 2480 - $4000 new OR Mackie 24x8 analog/ Soundcraft GB4/24 - $3000 new OR Allen and Heath GL 2400(24)/ Soundcraft LX7ii 24 - $2000 OR Mackie Onyx 24/4 $1600 OR Mackie SR24x4 - $1400 (not recommended)

Onyx is better by my ears compared to all those options.

As you can see, a 24 channel mixer is gonna cost you, and the cheaper you go, the less quality you're getting...also, you'll have to double check cause I'm not sure if all those I listed are going to give you direct outs and line ins.

Alesis HD24 - 1500
Monitors - 1000
Mics - 800
miscelaneous - 1000
CD burner - 800 (Alesis masterlink)

Total 5100 dollars BEFORE mixer

Your signal chain will be relatively simple... mics - board -(direct out)- HD24 for recording, and then you would route your outs on the HD24 back to the board and use the main outs to go to the CD Recorder like this: Hd24 - mixer line ins (aux and inserts for effects) - Masterlink

There you go...comparable quality in the digital realm is waaaaay cheaper. And I don't do AIM, sorry...

jacob
 
Yup, once again as I expected quality in digital is cheaper.

i decided that I will go mixerless aproach digitally.

I will go Mics>Pre's>interface(delta1010?)>pci card>program>tascam us2400.

I will put the headphones and the monitors from the interface.

Does that sound correct?

Also, should I buy a hardware compressor? Or should I just rely on plug ins in the program I buy?

what would you suggest for a program?

thanks

Mike
 
Nope, not correct.

You need an amplifier for any speakers and Headphones. As I suggested above, you'll need to pick up a headphone amplifier (look at Behringer) and monitors. The monitors I suggested above are 'Self powered' - not all monitors are like this. Make sure you pick up the right kind for your setup. Then you use channels 1 and 2 out on the interface and go into the Headphone amp, and then through that you can use the main outs to your monitors, and the channel outs to the headphones.

Also, why are you so fixated on the US2400? Cause it's big? Did you actually go look at the B-Control? If you get both of them, you'll pay half the cost of the 2400 and get more control over more functions. You do not need 24 faders to control 24 channels...

All other decisions I beg you to search about. If you honestly have more questions for me, email me. If you need someone to help you set this up, you can fly me to wherever you are and I'll do it for you... other than that, good luck and I hope you get the results you're looking for.

Jacob
 
jkokura said:
Nope, not correct.

You need an amplifier for any speakers and Headphones. As I suggested above, you'll need to pick up a headphone amplifier (look at Behringer) and monitors. The monitors I suggested above are 'Self powered' - not all monitors are like this. Make sure you pick up the right kind for your setup. Then you use channels 1 and 2 out on the interface and go into the Headphone amp, and then through that you can use the main outs to your monitors, and the channel outs to the headphones.

Also, why are you so fixated on the US2400? Cause it's big? Did you actually go look at the B-Control? If you get both of them, you'll pay half the cost of the 2400 and get more control over more functions. You do not need 24 faders to control 24 channels...

All other decisions I beg you to search about. If you honestly have more questions for me, email me. If you need someone to help you set this up, you can fly me to wherever you are and I'll do it for you... other than that, good luck and I hope you get the results you're looking for.

Jacob
Click to expand...


I am persitent on the 2400 because I got a friend that wants to sell his for $400. 100% working order,

I dont care about fancy lights and buttons.
I have one goal, to get a good recording quality from my setup.

I guess I don't need the 2400 and it is expensive, but when I have it at a deal that I can get form my friend, and from what I know it seems to be the right thing to enable me to go digital.

I personally would like to go analog and buy good stuff, but I don't need to mortgage the house! :D So thats th eonly reason im going digital. i like the feel of faders in my fingers, and it would help me to just have the 24 faders interacting with my program right infront of me. Due to the nature of my music, I wont require more than 24 tracks anyways.

Thanks,

Mike
 
that's a perfectly acceptable reason to get it! I hope it works well for you. I would suggest you look carefully and hard for good deals on stuff, and again, if you want help compiling an actuall list of specific gear you'll need (down to the paper clip). I'd love to help. I've worked on assembling and setting up Sound systems in churches I've been to, and I'd love to help you if you need it.

jacob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top