Is this a reliable way to set the intonation?

M

Mr songwriter

New member
I know the recommended way to set the intonation on a guitar is to compare the 12th fret harmonic with the fretted 12th fret note on any given string, but for some reason I've never really found it easy to compare a fretted note with a harmonic, so I do it the following way, which seems to work, though I'm wondering whether or not it's technically unsound:

To make bridge saddle adjustments for the G string (for example) I would make sure that the G string was in tune with the D string by ear (comparing 5th fret Dstring with the open G) and then play the open D string together with the G string fretted at the 7th, 9th, 11th, 12th, then 14th frets and adjust the saddle accordingly.

Does anyone else do it this way? or are there any other/better ways of doing it I haven't mentioned?
 
You can't set intonation by ear, or with a quartz or digital tuner. You need a strobe tuner. Nothing else will do.

And if your really fussy (as I am) you not only compare the 12th fret notes, but double check with the fretted notes at the 7th and 3 frets as well. Sometimes you split the (hopefully small) difference. But you will never do a satisfactory job at setting the intonation by ear. The human ear simply can not do it.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Well I accept what you say, but it does make me wonder how everyone managed in the days before strobe tuners. Too bad I can't afford one.
 
Mr songwriter said:
Well I accept what you say, but it does make me wonder how everyone managed in the days before strobe tuners. Too bad I can't afford one.
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Have you ever listened to older recordings? They didn't care as much.

More to the point, the strobe tuner has been around longer than any other electronic tuner. It is an old technology, but a very good one.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Ah, I didn't realise that strobe tuners had been around longer than electronic ones, though I would assume they have got better in recent years. As far as the point about old records go (gramophone records in particular) some of them do sound a bit off in the tuning department, though I would have previously assumed it was because of problems with wow and flutter on the tape or even in the mastering to disc.
 
funny, i was just listening to an old stones recording, live in new york in '69 and they sound more then just a bit off!!! more like a semi tone!!!!!!
 
There are lots of tools to use to set intonation. They vary in their accuracy, but all can be used to set intonation that will be more than good enough for 99% of players.

Many guitar effects units have digital tuners built in. These are generally pretty good and usually better than most ears.

If you don't have one, try and borrow one from a friend. That's a zero cost way to proceed.

The biggest factor that affects most players is not how well their intonation is set up, but how well they deal with the guitar after they start playing. As you play, tune changes with string bends and temperature. Being able to adjust on the fly is a big plus and having a stage tuner is one very good way to address this.

Ed
 
Ed Dixon said:
Many guitar effects units have digital tuners built in. These are generally pretty good and usually better than most ears.

If you don't have one, try and borrow one from a friend. That's a zero cost way to proceed.

Being able to adjust on the fly is a big plus and having a stage tuner is one very good way to address this.
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I've got a little Korg Tuner which seems to be pretty good for tuning open strings but unreliable for setting intonation - I think I can get quite a bit closer using the method I described above.

APL: that looks interesting, though I could just about get a stage tuner for that kind of money, which if it was more accurate than the Korg, might do for the intonation.

The strobopick thing looks a bit gimmicky, though the price is definitely good.
 
Mr songwriter said:
APL: that looks interesting, though I could just about get a stage tuner for that kind of money, which if it was more accurate than the Korg, might do for the intonation.
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Mr. Light would disagree. I'm going to get one because I do my own guitar setups, and most of my playing is at home anyway. For playing out, my amp has a tuner, as does my RP50.
 
Mr songwriter said:
Ah, I didn't realise that strobe tuners had been around longer than electronic ones, though I would assume they have got better in recent years.
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Nope, not really. They made them right in the first place. The only real difference is the newer ones are better built, so they last longer, but as long as they work they are accurate. By the time they become inaccurate, they don't work at all.

Remember, these things were originally invented as labratory instruments. The precision has always been VERY high.

And Ed, for intonation, the only thing that will do the job right is a strobe. The human ear (or at least, most human ears) are FAR more accurate than any other digital or electronic tuner, and the strobe is even more accurate still. Just take your guitar to a good experienced repair person, and have them set your intonation with their strobe (and they will have a strobe), and then check out the difference. It matters. It really, really matters.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light said:
And Ed, for intonation, the only thing that will do the job right is a strobe. The human ear (or at least, most human ears) are FAR more accurate than any other digital or electronic tuner, and the strobe is even more accurate still. Just take your guitar to a good experienced repair person, and have them set your intonation with their strobe (and they will have a strobe), and then check out the difference. It matters. It really, really matters.
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Sorry, but that is incorrect. One can do intonation with anything that works for them. Many players ears are anything but accurate for tuning. Some of the best players I have ever encountered had poor ears for tuning.

Many devices can provide tuning and intonation information. As you said, and others have said, accuracy varies by device. However the best intoned guitar still sounds awful if out of tune.

What most players need is a tuner that can be used on stage in a quit fashion. It needs to be fast, easy to use and work in low light and noisy environments. Many such tuners can also function just fine for setting intonation as well.

Ed
 
Ed Dixon said:
There are lots of tools to use to set intonation. They vary in their accuracy, but all can be used to set intonation that will be more than good enough for 99% of players.

Many guitar effects units have digital tuners built in. These are generally pretty good and usually better than most ears.

If you don't have one, try and borrow one from a friend. That's a zero cost way to proceed.

The biggest factor that affects most players is not how well their intonation is set up, but how well they deal with the guitar after they start playing. As you play, tune changes with string bends and temperature. Being able to adjust on the fly is a big plus and having a stage tuner is one very good way to address this.

Ed
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The digital tuner in (for example) a Pod is not very good. Any tuner that just lights 2 LED's when you are "in tune" is only going to get you close to pitch, and is nowhere nearly accurate enough to set intonation. A quartz tuner with a sweep needle is much better for general tuning and can be used to improve your intonation if it's really far out, though as Light says, is not as accurate as a strobe.
 
Chromatic or needle tuners are generally between 1 & 5 cents accuracy. The Peterson 'strobe' tuners are within .1 cent accuracy. Big difference and IMHO, a requirement for intonating.
 
ggunn said:
The digital tuner in (for example) a Pod is not very good. Any tuner that just lights 2 LED's when you are "in tune" is only going to get you close to pitch, and is nowhere nearly accurate enough to set intonation. A quartz tuner with a sweep needle is much better for general tuning and can be used to improve your intonation if it's really far out, though as Light says, is not as accurate as a strobe.
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Digital tuners do vary in both accuracy and the way they work. I have five different ones. The ones in the TC Electronics G-Major and the POD XT Live, both which provide much more information, work very well for me.

Regular POD beans are simpler and privide fairly basic tuning, but still better than many can get with ears. One real issue for stage tuning is speed. You have sometimes 10 seconds between songs and need to tune a single string in a silent fashion. Few things will work in this environment.

Ed
 
Yeah - digital tuners are great live where you need a really quick and silent reference, sometimes in the middle of a track.

For setting a guitar up I'd like to use the most accurate device available however - and that's what this thread is about.
 
Ed Dixon said:
What most players need is a tuner that can be used on stage in a quit fashion. It needs to be fast, easy to use and work in low light and noisy environments. Many such tuners can also function just fine for setting intonation as well.

Ed
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We're not talking about tuning on stage here, we are talking about setting intonation, and if you are still trying to get that right on stage, you have a whole raft of other issues going on.

For setting intonation, the ONLY thing that will work is a strobe.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Ed Dixon said:
Regular POD beans are simpler and privide fairly basic tuning, but still better than many can get with ears. One real issue for stage tuning is speed. You have sometimes 10 seconds between songs and need to tune a single string in a silent fashion. Few things will work in this environment.
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Codmate said:
Yeah - digital tuners are great live where you need a really quick and silent reference, sometimes in the middle of a track.
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That's why you get a Peterson StroboStomp... a strobe tuner (albiet virtual strobe) in a stompbox format.
 
sile2001 said:
That's why you get a Peterson StroboStomp... a strobe tuner (albiet virtual strobe) in a stompbox format.
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Just out of interest - how is a 'virtual strobe' tuner any more accurate than any other digital tuner?

They're both digital devices right?
 
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