Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
Taylor Swift ..... if she gets caught singing without autotune peoples' hearing is permanently damaged.
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
The Muppets! Can't sing to save their lives during a live performance. Kermit is a fraud. Ms. Piggie even with autotune is bad. Fuzzy bear is pure!
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
actually ...... there's a live Muppets show called .... ummmm, 'Puppet up!' think.
We saw it a couple of months ago ..... they were awesome.
And since you could see all the puppeteers ..... it's pretty amazing the gymastics they're doing to get all those puppets going where they're supposed to go.
diggy_dude
Now 169% diggier!
At the end of the day, the only thing you need to be concerned about is lying to yourself. If you know you have no talent and fake your way through it with electronic tricks, there's a good chance you'll feel like you're cheating. If you merely use the gear to enhance a performance or fix a few weak spots, then maybe not.
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
I'll have to catch that show!
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Non-musicians expect a recording (or live performance for that matter) to be *entertaining* for the most part....that's it. There might also be a broad "sounds good" or " sounds bad" perspective about a given production.
Very few of the general public will consider "details" and what kind of production "rules" were being used during a recording or live performance....and certainly not how much of it was "cheating".
I think even most musicians and audio pros/aficionados listen the same way...though in more specialized, audio "inner circles" and/or forums like this is where musicians/audio people will get into fine detailed discussions about quality and intent.
At the end of the day, there's one main question most will have....does it sound good?
Debating the ethics of say....using a session musician to cut a track, or was it done in a garage with the whole band playing live VS recorded track-by-track...etc...etc...etc....is IMHO, not that important of a consideration for most listeners, other than for something to talk about on audio forums.
I mean...you don't get any extra points for....using....or not using....the typical "tricks" (aka techniques) & processes of audio production. If you literally "fake" the entire thing, it will come out at some point, so I don't think too many folks do that...but yeah, there are some artists that got propped up for the sake of "image" instead of talent/ability...and they then have to be endlessly propped up/helped, but that type of stuff ends up haunting them more than anyone out in the listening audience. Look what happened to Ashlee Simpson's singing career after SNL......
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
my wife caught me with another woman but I said it wasn't cheating ....... just a post-recording edit!
R
RAMI
Guest
It's only cheating if you get caught.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
According to Eddie Murphy...if you use a condom, you're not even touching, so how is it cheating....?
R
RAMI
Guest
According to Eddie Murphy...if you use a condom, you're not even touching, so how is it cheating....?
...and let's not forget Bill's version of sex, never mind cheating.
kidkage
Bored of Canada
I don't necessarily look at things like effects, or eq, or whatever as cheating. Manipulating the sound seems to be fair game in most peoples eyes. I think the problem is with people that manipulate performance, recorded or live.
guitaristic
prophet of Dave
The tricky part about that is that soooo many artists nowadays aren't even truly performing live. Much of it is lip-synced. The Black Eyed Peas come to mind
kidkage
Bored of Canada
The tricky part about that is that soooo many artists nowadays aren't even truly performing live. Much of it is lip-synced. The Black Eyed Peas come to mind
Yeah. lol. I was thinking of them.
I didnt watch the grammys, but Ive heard chris brown and jennifer hudson sucked. but foo fighters and deadmau5 were "on point"
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
And even then there's always Perry Mason on hand to get you off scot free.It's only cheating if you get caught.
What do you mean, "there's no such person as Perry Mason" ?
Hakea
New member
Of course they can. The problem with the question is that it's almost completely pointless. Recording isn't a school exam, it's a tool used by the entertainment industry to create something that people might like the sound of. You might as well ask whether it's "cheating" to use a PA at a large concert venue instead of relying on the unamplified voice - or debate whether the entire movie industry is "cheating" because the actors are only pretending, the sets and script are manufactured and every single aspect of the end product wasn't "real".
I don't care whether a singer uses auto-tune any more than I care that B.B. King's or Eric Clapton's fingers on their own can't actually make the noises that come out of their amps. What interests me is whether I enjoy the end result. Any interest in the process in between is likely to revolve around whether I might find it useful myself one day.
It may well be worth discussing whether or not we like the end results of using a particular effects pedals, or one of the many useful editing tools that modern recording can offer, but "cheating" - are you joking?
arcadeko
Illuminatius Overlordious
have you listened to the black eyed peas?
i think the whole thing comes down to the question "What is a song"
kidkage
Bored of Canada
It's a strange thing for me to try to figure out.
For instance, I don't think electronic producers are cheating, but I do think people like beyonce are cheating.
For instance, I don't think electronic producers are cheating, but I do think people like beyonce are cheating.
MrWrenchey
Member
Haha, this.
The thing that bugs me about "artists" like this is that a producer writes the only "musical" part to it. The beat. That's why I hate rap music; It's mostly written by a producer that gets no recognition for the album. The rapper that talks over the top of it with no vocal line gets all the credit. By definition, music needs rhythm AND pitch. To call rappers musicians is a lie simply by definition. (Not to mention even rap artists like Kanye West just use the catchy lines from other artists sampled into their songs to make anything sound good)
Also what Bob was saying about Taylor Swift.
My only problem with auto-tune is that it's used so that the person needs it live to make it sound decent at all. Of course, now you can use auto-tune live as well. Pick a key, plug into a pedal, and bam.
I'm with most people on here: You need a good musician and a good song to create a good product in the end. If it's true music with instruments... Well, you can only polish a turd so much.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Hmm, something has pushed your rap buttons ! That just seemed like an excuse to have a pop at rap music. And unwittingly, you've hit upon the wheel on which this debate turns. Yours is the purist view, which unfortunately, like alot of purist views says more about the holder of the view than the actual subject !
Much of what you said reads like what people in the early 50s said about black blues, what people in the latter 50s said about rock and roll, what people {jazzers included} in the early 60s said about free jazz, what people in the mid 60s said about the Rolling Stones, what many in the late 60s said about the avant garde and the synthesizer, what many in the early 70s said about Zeppelin and Sabbath type heavy rock, what many musicians and commentators in the mid to late 70s said about punk, what many in the early 80s said about digitally recorded stuff..........
THAT'S NOT MUSIC !!
But it was, you know.
By the way, even a spoken voice has pitch.That's how a blind person or someone listening to the radio or some poetry can work out how emotive someone else is being.