Is my guitar tech up in the night?

[Light]

However it remains as an absolute fact, that the end result is how the instrument in question performs in the hands of the owner, not on your bench or in yours or someone else's hands. Anyone who works on guitars should know this.

As I said, player style will only really effect intonation if you have very tall frets, or if you have a scalloped fingerboard (one of the worst idea's anyone ever had, by the way). If you fingers are being stopped by the fingerboard (as they are won most frets) you are not going to be able to push down so hard that you effect the intonation. If you like frets that tall, you almost certainly like them because you are not pushing down hard enough to cause a problem (or you want to be able to get your vibrato from pushing harder).

For the most part, intonation is an absolute thing. There are times when people need a particular part of the neck to be perfect, at the expense of another part (as guitars NEVER play completely in tune), and we can accommodate that. None the less, for 99% of the people out there, a normal intonation setup is exactly the same thing, matching the twelfth fret harmonic to the fretted twelfth fret.

I wasn't really getting involved with you on this issue, because it is completely off topic, as the thread is about the importance of a strobe tuner in a professional intonation job. There is a vast difference between a strobe tuner and an electronic tuner, enough so that they can not be classified together. That is my point, that is what the thread is about, and so that is what I was talking about. But I am afraid to say, that for MOST players, on MOST guitars, what you are talking about is a complete non-issue. I was not missing your point, I was staying on topic.


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"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Ed Dixon]

As I said, player style will only really effect intonation if you have very tall frets, or if you have a scalloped fingerboard (one of the worst idea's anyone ever had, by the way).

My experience has shown this not to be the case. Perhaps you have not seen it, but I have, more than once. None of the cases involved any unusual fret configurations.

The basis of this thread was the original concern by therage! dealing with a setup issue. He asked

"How would you guys deal with this? And our strobe tuners really necessary?"

My comments have focused on the question of whether the person in question does good work. When I take a guitar to a tech, I want to be sure he is going to set it up to suit me, not someone else, perhaps with a different style.

Having dealt with a number of techs in different states, their performance varies. Some really focus on what you need and want (the ones I go back to) and some with a less personal approach (the ones I never repeated returning to).

Those were my comments and I stand by them. Guitars are very personal instruments. One can go into a store and pull 10 quality guitars off the wall from the same manufacturer. It is not unusual that a single one will stand out as having that 'magic feel'. Someone else may examine the same 10 and pick a different magic one. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and guitar setup is something that is best done with knowledge of the personal style and preferences of the owner.

Ed

 

[crazydoc]

I have a very light touch when playing. I take that into account when doing my setup. When some of my friends play my guitar, it sounds sharp to them on higher frets. When I play their guitar, it has a tendency to sound flat. The difference is playing style.

Ed

To touch on the off topic point here - finger pressure can make a difference in intonation, between players and probably even between fingers of an individual player, especially in classical guitar. Even though the fingerboard stops the travel of the finger, increasing the pressure can deform the finger pad and continue to put more tension on the string, raising its frequency.

 

[Ed Dixon]

To touch on the off topic point here - finger pressure can make a difference in intonation, between players and probably even between fingers of an individual player, especially in classical guitar.

From what I have experienced, this effect seems more prevalent on electric guitars with light gauge strings. The lightweight string offers less resistance to finger pressure and is more sensitive as a result.

I have a PRS 24 with 9.5 strings and it seems very noticeable. I have a Gibson Lucelle with 10 strings and shaved frets where it is much less noticeable.

Ed

 

[RattleCat]

I apologize as this is borrowed and I do not remember the source.


Each string behaves differently with regard to sharping tendency when fretted. There are three related rules which apply here: sharping from fretting is inversely proportional to pitch (the pitch rule); pitch is proportional to string tension (the tension rule), and; string tension is proportional to string mass (the string mass rule).
The pitch rule tells us that a guitar will display a global tendency to more sharpness as the open-string pitch goes down, and the Eb string does in fact go sharp more than the Et string. However, the tension rule and the string mass rule also come into play, and we see this especially when we compare the sharping behavior of the G and D strings. If we were to apply the pitch rule only to G and D, we would expect more sharping from D than from G. But D in fact sharps less than G. This is because of the metal windings on D which add mass. Even though D is lower in pitch than G, it has higher tension than G and therefore sharps less.
(this assumes accurate fret spacing)
(remember also that scale length will affect tension)

Lower mass and lower tension will give you more fret sharping on the lighter guage strings.

But back to the point....are you having a problem with the guitar or wondering if there is a problem? Just start asking about intonation and bring up strobe tuners.

 

[Light]

When I take a guitar to a tech, I want to be sure he is going to set it up to suit me, not someone else, perhaps with a different style.

Every set up is individual, as you say. This is, however, much less the case than you think. 99% of players walk out with a guitar setup to what we consider spec, and are more than satisfied. When they are not, they bring it back, and we keep working with them until it is right. That is part of what you pay for when you get a setup by any professional repair person. If your repair person is not willing to work with you like this, take it somewhere else. However, very few people ever take advantage of this, as they are satisfied with the initial setup. As I said, for most people, there is not an issue. For you, there may be, but you are in a very small minority.


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"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi