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PRiZ
New member
Proffesional level...?
This would be if the soundcard had preaps, phantom power and the right MIC...?
This would be if the soundcard had preaps, phantom power and the right MIC...?
Is it possible to get perfect recording with a MIC and souncard...???
Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
no
Blue Bear Sound
New member
no
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PRiZ
New member
dammmn!!!!
Is this a joke...? My dog could haven given better answers than this, explain why not...? peep the site: http://www.shure.com/support/technotes/app-soundcard.html
It's about soundcards and MIC's, someone please let me know why not or how I can get good recording, do I need to buy a special mixer...HELP!!!!
Is this a joke...? My dog could haven given better answers than this, explain why not...? peep the site: http://www.shure.com/support/technotes/app-soundcard.html
It's about soundcards and MIC's, someone please let me know why not or how I can get good recording, do I need to buy a special mixer...HELP!!!!
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Not a joke....
Well... the greatest, best mic in the world will sound like complete crap thru a bad preamp.... and I'm pretty sure most soundcard pres aren't up there for quality (unless you spend big, big bucks...)
Are they serviceable? Yup... Will they be good for you? Maybe - you have to try and judge for yourself... Is going to give you "perfect" recordings? Absolutely not... Why not? 1) because there is no such thing... and 2) because for excellent, pro recordings, you need 4 things - an excellent performer, sitting in an excellent-sounding room, mic'd with the correct mic in the proper position, sent thru an excellent (read, mucho dollars!) mic pre to an excellent recording device. Given that, you might have a shot at getting a "perfect" recording.
Anything less than that is going to be a compromise of some degree....
Incidently, although I was trying to be somewhat funny, it is meant as a reality check. Do the best you can with what you've got, but you can't get blood from a stone. It's pointless to have an exaggerated sense of what gear can do what and how well!
So the real answer to your question, as far as I'm concerned is... no, you can't get perfect recordings, but can probably get something acceptable, until you get enough experience that it becomes unacceptable and then you upgrade!
Bruce
Well... the greatest, best mic in the world will sound like complete crap thru a bad preamp.... and I'm pretty sure most soundcard pres aren't up there for quality (unless you spend big, big bucks...)
Are they serviceable? Yup... Will they be good for you? Maybe - you have to try and judge for yourself... Is going to give you "perfect" recordings? Absolutely not... Why not? 1) because there is no such thing... and 2) because for excellent, pro recordings, you need 4 things - an excellent performer, sitting in an excellent-sounding room, mic'd with the correct mic in the proper position, sent thru an excellent (read, mucho dollars!) mic pre to an excellent recording device. Given that, you might have a shot at getting a "perfect" recording.
Anything less than that is going to be a compromise of some degree....
Incidently, although I was trying to be somewhat funny, it is meant as a reality check. Do the best you can with what you've got, but you can't get blood from a stone. It's pointless to have an exaggerated sense of what gear can do what and how well!
So the real answer to your question, as far as I'm concerned is... no, you can't get perfect recordings, but can probably get something acceptable, until you get enough experience that it becomes unacceptable and then you upgrade!
Bruce
Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
If you wanna rephrase the question to maybe "Can I get a very good sound from a very good soundcard with very good preamp and very goodmics?", then yes you can if you know how to use the equipment listed......didnt mean to sound dumber than your dog, but you basically asked a yes or no question and we answered the truth....
If you want pro results, go to a pro studio...if you want a real good sound, stick around here and research some soundcards, pre amps, and mics and ask alot of questions and youll do ok.....
If you want pro results, go to a pro studio...if you want a real good sound, stick around here and research some soundcards, pre amps, and mics and ask alot of questions and youll do ok.....
P
PRiZ
New member
Thanks!!!
I agree, I'm only doing some underground ish, so it's not expected to be proffesional, but it's nice to know I can still get good sound...Studios scare me, there's to much pressure involved.
I agree, I'm only doing some underground ish, so it's not expected to be proffesional, but it's nice to know I can still get good sound...Studios scare me, there's to much pressure involved.
Leeking
New member
I think getting a simple preamp like the ART tube MP will give tremendous improvement to your recording.
4
47ronin
New member
I always wonder what people mean by PRO sound....i mean listen to something like pavements slay tracks...or palace...or sebadoh...or elliott smith, damien jurado, etc......something tells me a lot of the people on this board have never even heard of these people
these are major figures in modern music and some of their albums sound like and were indeed recorded on boomboxes!
you dont need all this expensive prosumer stuff, most of which is made specifically to sucker people into buying crap they dont need...
if the songs are good then people will notice....besides, until somebody wants to put out your songs they are always demos, regardless of the sound quality, right?
good luck, keep it real
47ronin
these are major figures in modern music and some of their albums sound like and were indeed recorded on boomboxes!
you dont need all this expensive prosumer stuff, most of which is made specifically to sucker people into buying crap they dont need...
if the songs are good then people will notice....besides, until somebody wants to put out your songs they are always demos, regardless of the sound quality, right?
good luck, keep it real
47ronin
J
j
New member
i agree that there is no perfect sound, and that the idea of a 'pro sound' is vague....but i'd say'yes' to your initial question...with the processing ability of pcs you can make anything sound 'professsional".
what sound are you going for?
and no, only the velvet underground and fred lane recorded on boomboxes.
what sound are you going for?
and no, only the velvet underground and fred lane recorded on boomboxes.
Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
47, please dont get offended , im trying to do that less these days, but get your head out of your ass please.....the question asked about "getting a perfect recording".....those examples you gave, while they may be great songs, great performances, whatever, by your own quote "sound like they were recorded on boomboxes"....now if he would have asked if he could get a mic and soundcard that would give him a sound like it was recorded on a boombox, i would have told him to go out and get a boombox.....
your answer pointed out a good point and definitely accurate in many cases.... not this one....this person, and others, are interested in sonic quality, for which a boombox wont work....maybe a SingAlongWithElmo, but not a boombox.....
your answer pointed out a good point and definitely accurate in many cases.... not this one....this person, and others, are interested in sonic quality, for which a boombox wont work....maybe a SingAlongWithElmo, but not a boombox.....
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PRiZ
New member
lol...
I love it how critical people take stuff on boards.
anyways, I'm going to be doing vocals for hiphop, if that helps.
Yes, I agree if the songs are good that's all that matters, I listen to tons of low level recorded albums and love them, but recently have started to take notice in more of the mainstream hiphop that has clear sound and nice sounding vocals. I know what your gonna say, but I know it's possible to acheive a level of quality that's good enough to keep me satisfied until my fifth album etc.
Oh yeah, everyone keeps talking about soundcards and preamps as if their different machines, but there's alot of souncards that claim excellent preamps built in. There's also alot of people that claim this is bull and they all suck...?
look forward to what else you(s) have to say...peace!
I love it how critical people take stuff on boards.
anyways, I'm going to be doing vocals for hiphop, if that helps.
Yes, I agree if the songs are good that's all that matters, I listen to tons of low level recorded albums and love them, but recently have started to take notice in more of the mainstream hiphop that has clear sound and nice sounding vocals. I know what your gonna say, but I know it's possible to acheive a level of quality that's good enough to keep me satisfied until my fifth album etc.
Oh yeah, everyone keeps talking about soundcards and preamps as if their different machines, but there's alot of souncards that claim excellent preamps built in. There's also alot of people that claim this is bull and they all suck...?
look forward to what else you(s) have to say...peace!
Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
I think getting the sound you want is critical PRiz, or else you wouldnt be asking......if you are doing rap vocals, you are looking at getting a good mic, a good pre-amp, a good compressor, a good soundcard, good software.....do you have a budget in mind?....
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PRiZ
New member
yeah...of course!
sorry I didn't mention, buget is everything.
Well for a soundcard I was willing to spend no more than 900 canadian. (about 600-650 US)
For a MIC I was expecting to have to pay about 300, but havn't looked into MIC's yet. (about 200 US)
I was hoping to get a good compressor and preamp included in my soundcard...If this isn't possible, I'll spend more for a soundcard or end up paying whatever I need to do so otherwise.
I think my brother is buying me Reason, I'm going to ask more about this program, but it seems to do everything I need, I already know it's got a weak compressor and weak for vocals.
also I was thinking about having enough in the end to mayby get a good keyboard to play with.
My toatal budget is around 2000 canadian (1200-1300 US), I already got a down payment on a new computer a few weeks ago, but havn't picked it up from the store yet, equivalent to about a Pentium 900 with 256MB etc...
I've recognized it's expensive blah,blah and am prepared to spend it all on equipment that will give me many years of enjoyment and satisfaction. I deffinitley want to get the best for my buck, as I earned almost every penny min wage.
Here I'll calculate it now for my own view:
Soundcard...about 750 lets say. (canadian)
MIC..............about 300 lets say. (canadian) 1650
Monitors (pair)...damn almost forgot...about 500 I guess (canadian) for a good quality.
that leaves me with 350 Canadian buffer zone.
about 200 US...actually I'm not too sure about the price difference but assume I'm generally close.
I wanted to get a keyboard too I think I might actually have a grand more than I think I do, overall.
sorry for writing so much...
sorry I didn't mention, buget is everything.
Well for a soundcard I was willing to spend no more than 900 canadian. (about 600-650 US)
For a MIC I was expecting to have to pay about 300, but havn't looked into MIC's yet. (about 200 US)
I was hoping to get a good compressor and preamp included in my soundcard...If this isn't possible, I'll spend more for a soundcard or end up paying whatever I need to do so otherwise.
I think my brother is buying me Reason, I'm going to ask more about this program, but it seems to do everything I need, I already know it's got a weak compressor and weak for vocals.
also I was thinking about having enough in the end to mayby get a good keyboard to play with.
My toatal budget is around 2000 canadian (1200-1300 US), I already got a down payment on a new computer a few weeks ago, but havn't picked it up from the store yet, equivalent to about a Pentium 900 with 256MB etc...
I've recognized it's expensive blah,blah and am prepared to spend it all on equipment that will give me many years of enjoyment and satisfaction. I deffinitley want to get the best for my buck, as I earned almost every penny min wage.
Here I'll calculate it now for my own view:
Soundcard...about 750 lets say. (canadian)
MIC..............about 300 lets say. (canadian) 1650
Monitors (pair)...damn almost forgot...about 500 I guess (canadian) for a good quality.
that leaves me with 350 Canadian buffer zone.
about 200 US...actually I'm not too sure about the price difference but assume I'm generally close.
I wanted to get a keyboard too I think I might actually have a grand more than I think I do, overall.
sorry for writing so much...
Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
If theres one goal for me, its too get you away from the "all in one card" thinking....the direct pro has those effects onboard, but from what Ive heard , they arent much.....id go with
Omni Studio 400.00
rnc compressor 150.00
Marshall v67 mic 180.00
Yorkville YSM-1 monitors 178.00
this is 900.00 us so far....
this Omni studio is basically a Delta66 card that has 4in/4 out plus digital in/out...it comes with the Omni i/o unit which is basically a preamp unit that has 2 damn good preamps, better than the direct pro by far, has phantom power so you can use condenser mics, and has aux channels so you can route effects.....
the rnc compressor has been described as the best compressor for under $1000 so you can se the value there....Marshall v67, do a search of the mic forum and see for yourself....Yorkville monitors is simply the best bang for the buck monitor you can get, but it isnt powered, but a regular home stereo reciever will work...if not you will have to get an amp for it....
Omni Studio 400.00
rnc compressor 150.00
Marshall v67 mic 180.00
Yorkville YSM-1 monitors 178.00
this is 900.00 us so far....
this Omni studio is basically a Delta66 card that has 4in/4 out plus digital in/out...it comes with the Omni i/o unit which is basically a preamp unit that has 2 damn good preamps, better than the direct pro by far, has phantom power so you can use condenser mics, and has aux channels so you can route effects.....
the rnc compressor has been described as the best compressor for under $1000 so you can se the value there....Marshall v67, do a search of the mic forum and see for yourself....Yorkville monitors is simply the best bang for the buck monitor you can get, but it isnt powered, but a regular home stereo reciever will work...if not you will have to get an amp for it....
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PRiZ
New member
GREAATTT!!!!
I'll look into all of that right now!
I agree with your all in one theory. Leave the sound to sound cards, and leave the preamps to to preamp people etc. but,but,but...as for monitors someone was suggesting Mackie and Event because they are best for hiphop due to thier deep bass in your face up close. These systems offer built in amplification, with amplifiers matched exactly to the speakers their driving...takes away need to buy an amp. Have you heard of this, what do you think? I'll let you know what I think about this setup later...
I'll look into all of that right now!
I agree with your all in one theory. Leave the sound to sound cards, and leave the preamps to to preamp people etc. but,but,but...as for monitors someone was suggesting Mackie and Event because they are best for hiphop due to thier deep bass in your face up close. These systems offer built in amplification, with amplifiers matched exactly to the speakers their driving...takes away need to buy an amp. Have you heard of this, what do you think? I'll let you know what I think about this setup later...
C
czar of bizarre
New member
heres asome names and prices of gear you should look into.
(prices are us funds):
ROLAND STUDIO PACK: you can have 24 track/24 bit recording and 96khz capability. the vm3100pro mixer has 12 analog inputs with 2 of them being xlr with phantom power. compressors,reverb,eq and a lot of other fx stuff. you can exchange 8 channels at a time. and it comes with logic rpc. with that you can record 8 tracks at a time and playback 24 all at once and you can sequence. $695.98
(no sound card needed. pci slot is required.with this external pre amps and compressors are optional because you have everything onboard)
MICROPHONES:
akg c1000s condenser: $199
shure 58 dynamic: $99.99
rode NT1 condenser: $199.99
rode NT3 condenser: $159.99
audio technica at3525 condenser: $239.98
akg d880 dynamic: $94.98
EXTERNAL COMPRESSORS (opitional if you buy the roland pack):
presonus blue max compressor limiter:$149.99
dbx 266 dual compressor/gate: $149.98
art leveler tube compressor/limiter: $99.99
alesis 3630 compressor/limiter/gate: $149.99
EXTERNAL PRE AMPS (opitional if you buy the roland pack):
art tube mp studio: $125.99
art dio preamp system(has digital outs): 254.98
presonus blue tube stereo pre:$149.99
MONITORS (you must get an amp $175-$300)
alesis monitor ones:$249.99
jbl 4206:$320
tannoy proto j:$225
event 20/20:$300
Yorkville YSM-1:$178.00
now if my budget was $1300 i would get the roland pak because all you need is a pci slot and your all digital and you can transpots 8 channels at a time. plus you have your mic pre's with phantom power and onboard fx units and dynamic processors.
if i purchased that i would hold off on the mic pre and external compresser.
a good mic is NEEDED. so i would choose a akg c1000 or rode nt1 or the shure 58 (dont forget the popper).
good monitors are NEEDED. i would take the events or alesis monitors with an alesis ra 100 amp ($260)
so what is your TOTAL budget? 1300 in us bucks or 2000 in us bucks? if i were you i would STRONGLY look into that roland studio pack. remember your on a budget. get the MOST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK!!!!! you need something now and to get you in the ball park. if it was me i would get the roland setup and worry about an external pre and external compresser later.
czar
ps you DONT have pro money you have a LIMITED BUDGET. get the most bang for your buck.
(prices are us funds):
ROLAND STUDIO PACK: you can have 24 track/24 bit recording and 96khz capability. the vm3100pro mixer has 12 analog inputs with 2 of them being xlr with phantom power. compressors,reverb,eq and a lot of other fx stuff. you can exchange 8 channels at a time. and it comes with logic rpc. with that you can record 8 tracks at a time and playback 24 all at once and you can sequence. $695.98
(no sound card needed. pci slot is required.with this external pre amps and compressors are optional because you have everything onboard)
MICROPHONES:
akg c1000s condenser: $199
shure 58 dynamic: $99.99
rode NT1 condenser: $199.99
rode NT3 condenser: $159.99
audio technica at3525 condenser: $239.98
akg d880 dynamic: $94.98
EXTERNAL COMPRESSORS (opitional if you buy the roland pack):
presonus blue max compressor limiter:$149.99
dbx 266 dual compressor/gate: $149.98
art leveler tube compressor/limiter: $99.99
alesis 3630 compressor/limiter/gate: $149.99
EXTERNAL PRE AMPS (opitional if you buy the roland pack):
art tube mp studio: $125.99
art dio preamp system(has digital outs): 254.98
presonus blue tube stereo pre:$149.99
MONITORS (you must get an amp $175-$300)
alesis monitor ones:$249.99
jbl 4206:$320
tannoy proto j:$225
event 20/20:$300
Yorkville YSM-1:$178.00
now if my budget was $1300 i would get the roland pak because all you need is a pci slot and your all digital and you can transpots 8 channels at a time. plus you have your mic pre's with phantom power and onboard fx units and dynamic processors.
if i purchased that i would hold off on the mic pre and external compresser.
a good mic is NEEDED. so i would choose a akg c1000 or rode nt1 or the shure 58 (dont forget the popper).
good monitors are NEEDED. i would take the events or alesis monitors with an alesis ra 100 amp ($260)
so what is your TOTAL budget? 1300 in us bucks or 2000 in us bucks? if i were you i would STRONGLY look into that roland studio pack. remember your on a budget. get the MOST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK!!!!! you need something now and to get you in the ball park. if it was me i would get the roland setup and worry about an external pre and external compresser later.
czar
ps you DONT have pro money you have a LIMITED BUDGET. get the most bang for your buck.
P
PRiZ
New member
ummm...
Is the delta 66 have as good sound as the delta 1010...?
so far this is looking good...I havn't seen the Omni studio for any less than 500, sure you got the right price.
About your setup Czar, it seems like it's kind'ov overboard and odd, NO SOUNDCARD! 12 analog inputs, record 8 tracks at a time, all I'm gonna record is my voice with one MIC.
about channels, how many do I need, only like two, right?
the price lists or handy though, basically this whole setup just confuses me.
I'm planning on recording to my computer, so I don't need a Dat or anything, right?
what about mastering...?or is that what the compressor does?
Is the delta 66 have as good sound as the delta 1010...?
so far this is looking good...I havn't seen the Omni studio for any less than 500, sure you got the right price.
About your setup Czar, it seems like it's kind'ov overboard and odd, NO SOUNDCARD! 12 analog inputs, record 8 tracks at a time, all I'm gonna record is my voice with one MIC.
about channels, how many do I need, only like two, right?
the price lists or handy though, basically this whole setup just confuses me.
I'm planning on recording to my computer, so I don't need a Dat or anything, right?
what about mastering...?or is that what the compressor does?
Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ex/shop/home/010521155844024004254216242733?pid=701343
that roland studio pack is a nice setup, but definitely overkill for your needs....
Also the delta 1010 would be overkill ...10 inputs and 10 outputs....I have heard that the 1010 has slightly better converters, but the 66 still has damn good ones.....
one voice and one mic needs one channel...the delta 66 will give you 4, but you may use it in the future(keyboard?)
Dat is nothing you need to worry about...
Mastering will be done in software mostly, though you could use the rnc or other outboard compressor if you get it....mastering is basically compressing or limiting if needed,adjusting levels, eq'ing if necessary, basically getting the stereo track youve mixed down into its Final form......
that roland studio pack is a nice setup, but definitely overkill for your needs....
Also the delta 1010 would be overkill ...10 inputs and 10 outputs....I have heard that the 1010 has slightly better converters, but the 66 still has damn good ones.....
one voice and one mic needs one channel...the delta 66 will give you 4, but you may use it in the future(keyboard?)
Dat is nothing you need to worry about...
Mastering will be done in software mostly, though you could use the rnc or other outboard compressor if you get it....mastering is basically compressing or limiting if needed,adjusting levels, eq'ing if necessary, basically getting the stereo track youve mixed down into its Final form......
C
czar of bizarre
New member
it DOESNT require a sound card. it requires a PCI slot. basically the mixer IS your sound card and a wire connects it to the unit that you would install in the pci slot. do you feel comfortable mixing on a computer? where are your sounds coming from? REASON or some other software or are you using a keyboard? you dont need a dat because your recording to the pc. however for your kind of music i would NOT use 1 mic only. i would use a condenser for vocals and a dynamic for ad libs,back ground vocals and some hooks. run them both through mic algorithims or something like that. thats ME. you do what you want because you know what you want.
if you plan on doing this for a while i suggest getting certain things now before you make a mistake and get something not needed. i repeat get certain things NOW and get the other optional stuff later.
i would like to also add that mastering should NOT be used to CORRECT mistakes. it should be used to ENHANCE the recording and add COHESIVENESS from song to song i e same volume levels etc etc
sorry for typos and errors my eyes r burnin up
czar