Is a mic preamp worth it?

[adriannav]

Hello everyone! I recently bought an Audio‑Technica AT2050 Condenser mic, and I like the overall sound so far. However with that being said, I recently heard another sample recorded using the same mic, and it was just a lot more clear, warm, and airy sounding. So I'm wondering how does someone with the exact same mic achieve such a superior sound? Is it a good preamp that really makes a difference, or a better audio interface? What do you guys think? Also right now I just have my mic running directly through a cheap M-Audio Fast Track USB interface. I appreciate the tips/suggestions! By the way I mainly record Guitar and vocals in case you were wondering.

 

[witzendoz]

Don't forget the room it was recorded in.

Alan.

 

[Massive Master]

Is a mic preamp worth it?

I would go as far as to say the preamp selection is at least as important as the mic selection.

You can make reasonably wonderful recordings with a bunch of 57's through decent preamps. Can't really do the same with a bunch of U47FET's through crappy preamps.

That said - If you invest in some decent preamps (which you should) don't get crappy preamps. Many very "popular" models out there suck horrifically. Uber bang-for-the-buck? FMR's RNP, hands down for a dual-input model. GAP's Pre73 is a wonderful (and insanely cheap) single-channel unit. You can pretty well steer clear of the vast majority of "budget friendly" channel strip options (a cheap preamp circuit going through a cheap EQ circuit feeding into a cheap compression circuit -- see where this is going?).

M-Audio's DMP3 is actually a rather nice unit but has absolutely zero usable headroom. That said, I'm a big fan of NORMAL input levels anyway. Some preamps handle the extra voltage in style (think API, Neve, Crane Song, Manley, etc.) while others fall apart into crapsville as soon as it goes over spec. Like the DMP3 for example. That said, it's a pretty decent sounding unit as long as you keep your levels within reason and don't throw a lot of extreme transients at it (which you're not with a guitar and vocals).

THAT said, make sure you're using reasonably 'normal' levels (not "as hot as you can without clipping") with the one you have also -- Could easily be the difference.

Don't forget the room it was recorded in.

Hopefully goes without saying -- When using "budget friendly" overly-sensitive condensers, the room is going to make a HUGE difference. Well, with expensive overly-sensitive condensers also for that matter too.

 

[5stringer]

I wouldn't call the M-Audio Fastrack Pro a "cheap" unit. While it may be inexpensive ($200 for 2-channel) - I've recorded with mine for 3 years now
and achieved wonderful recordings with it. I agree full-heartedly with Massive's post above. Look at the room you're in, instrument, mic placement, cables, levels,
etc... ALL of those things play a role in your recording. Buying a top-o-the-line mic pre will help, sure, but those other, less glamourous details are very important as well.

 

[GONZO-X]

how many pros do you know, that do not use mic preamps?

just look around, and pay attention..... a lot of these kinds of questions are pretty obvious.

 

[adriannav]

I wouldn't call the M-Audio Fastrack Pro a "cheap" unit.

I don't have the "M-Audio Fast track Pro", I have the M-Audio Fast track USB Interface. which is about $89.00... And my room is crap... It's 12ft L X 12ft W X 8 ft H, and has a carpeted floor. So what do you guys think I should invest in first, towards moving forward. A decent preamp, a quality recording space, or a better audio interface? by the way thanks everybody for posting your advice and thoughts, they were very helpful!

 

[polarity]

I can say I noticed a HUGE difference when I got away from the M-Audio Mobile Pre and picked up an Allen & Heath ZED10FX. It was an 8 channel mixer with 4 mic pres and USB out to the computer. USB out was only a stereo mix (so 2 channel) but the clarity of the preamp was amazing. Depending on your goals and budget you could look into something like that (I think they are $299 new, $225ish used).

I don't really think this has to be an either or thing (again depending on budget). You can pick up supplies and go for the DIY bass traps for pretty cheap. The most expensive part will probably be the rigid fiberglass. I think I spent about $10 on wood (I used MDF) to make my first mock up frame. I would say for $100 or so you could get started on the room treatment and for $200 or so you could get a better preamp (not top of the line, but quality).

 

[Ethan Winer]

my room is crap ... what do you guys think I should invest in first

I think you answered your own question. Unless you record everything with extremely close micing, the room you record in affects the quality at least ten times more than the preamp you use. Even with close mics the room has an affect. Further, your room also affects what you hear when mixing. So addressing your room will help twice. This short article explains the basics in plain English:

Acoustic Basics

--Ethan

 

[60's guy]

M-Audio's DMP3 is actually a rather nice unit but has absolutely zero usable headroom.

Can you elaborate on that a bit more? I have a DMP3 that I have used many times and I have always noticed that the meters are....well, i dunno....jumpy. It's always been kinda difficult to get a handle on it. What should I be looking for when I use the DMP3?

 

[PDP]

, I recently heard another sample recorded using the same mic, and it was just a lot more clear, warm, and airy sounding. So I'm wondering how does someone with the exact same mic achieve such a superior sound?.

Is there anyway you can ask that performer how they got their sound?

If so, ask them what their front end is and where it was recorded?

 

[suprstar]

Can you elaborate on that a bit more? I have a DMP3 that I have used many times and I have always noticed that the meters are....well, i dunno....jumpy. It's always been kinda difficult to get a handle on it. What should I be looking for when I use the DMP3?

THAT is the troof... "jumpy", congrats - you just won understatement-of-the-year !! I'd like to know any knowledgeable person's answer to that too. I do think it's a good-sounding unit, I use mine mainly on vox. When in doubt I err towards tracking hotter.

 

[Rig Hood]

i think so,, but its not necessary if you know how to work around it

 

[Massive Master]

Can you elaborate on that a bit more? I have a DMP3 that I have used many times and I have always noticed that the meters are....well, i dunno....jumpy. It's always been kinda difficult to get a handle on it. What should I be looking for when I use the DMP3?

Just estimate with the 0dBVU reference level on your converters. Assuming it's somewhere in the -18 to -15dBFS range, have high transients hit in the -12dBFS area and lower transients (vocals, etc.) somewhere near the spec (-18 to -15dBFS).

Otherwise known as "normal" input levels.

Blah, blah - If you're bored: Proper Audio Recording Levels | Rants, Articles

 

[Bobbsy]

how many pros do you know, that do not use mic preamps?

just look around, and pay attention..... a lot of these kinds of questions are pretty obvious.

Well, of course we ALL use mic pre amps. The question is "how many use separate, stand-alone mic pres?". The answer to that would be fewer than you think.

It's extremely common, with any decent mixing desk on the input side, to simply use the mic input to the mixer. The exception to this would be occasions when you want to add a specific colouration or character to the recording--then a specific pre amp is chosen (not a "one size fits all" solution that will add the same sound whether you're recording male vocal, female vocal or some obscure instrument). Or another exception might be a mic with an exceedingly low output level where you need extra quiet gain on the pre amp.

As I say, this applies to studios that have mixers with decent pre amps--or, in a home studio, an interface with a decent pre amp which MOST (but not all) have now.

So, yes separate pre amps can have their purposes but, dollar for dollar, unless the rest of your system is already top of the line, you'll likely get more bang for the buck with money spent on a new mic or better acoustic treatment for your room.

For the OP, is yours a Fast Track or Fast Track II? I ask because there was a big improvement in pre amps between the two. If you have the original Fast Track I'd probably invest in a better interface (with decent on board mic pres) rather than spend the money on a specialist pre amp to feed via the Fast Track. To get any pre amp worth having you'll likely spend more than you would on a work horse interface.

 

[TimOBrien]

Don't forget the room it was recorded in.

Yup. The figure I always heard thrown about was the room counted for at least 2/3rds of your 'sound'.
The big boys spend million$ to build spaces for a reason and it ain't to be pretty.

 

[adriannav]

I have a Fast Track II.

 

[Bobbsy]

In that case the internal pre amp is pretty good. I have a different M Audio interface (but with identical pre amps) and find it good enough that I use it with measurement mics to do acoustic assessments of large spaces for setting up live sound systems.

I'd say you'd have to spend some serious money to be significantly better--and that money would be better spent on the acoustics of your room and/or a change of microphone.

 

[Justsomeguy]

I recently heard another sample recorded using the same mic, and it was just a lot more clear, warm, and airy sounding. So I'm wondering how does someone with the exact same mic achieve such a superior sound?

Sorry if this is obvious but was the sample you heard a raw recording or one that had been edited/EQ'd/Compressed with some reverb/delay? Was it also just an acapella track or in a mix? As i said, I'm sorry if this sounds daft, it's always just worth baring in mind how different you can make a recording sound with a hint of EQ and compression and how it will sound against other instruments

As you've noted and everyone else has said, the room/mic/preamp/voice will all have a huge impact and i'd agree with pretty much everything that's been said. I'd be tempted to focus on the room first before anything else and there's plenty of wonderful info over on the DIY/studio build threads and it's relatively cheap if you're handy at DIY

 

[guitaristic]

Hello everyone! I recently bought an Audio‑Technica AT2050 Condenser mic, and I like the overall sound so far. However with that being said, I recently heard another sample recorded using the same mic, and it was just a lot more clear, warm, and airy sounding. So I'm wondering how does someone with the exact same mic achieve such a superior sound? Is it a good preamp that really makes a difference, or a better audio interface? What do you guys think? Also right now I just have my mic running directly through a cheap M-Audio Fast Track USB interface. I appreciate the tips/suggestions! By the way I mainly record Guitar and vocals in case you were wondering.

Having a separate preamp is nice, but if your room isn't treated I'd definitely recommend doing that first.

 

[ecc83]

There is nothing magical about a microphone pre amp. You can make a state of art pre for a component cost of less than $50. Now, IF you are after subtle "warmf" then you need Neve iron or similar but so long as we are talking clean reproduction and "normal" levels, mic pres are pretty simple things.

By definition, if two mic amps sound different ONE (or both!) must be "wrong"! Same for monitors. There is a bit of a fashion these last years for various input loadings but I think most folks agree the effects are subtle and pretty much wasted on a transformerless capacitor mic? And that means most of them.

The OP's AI IS cheap! The Fast track PRO has quite good mic amps but very lacking in gain.

The pres in my NI ka6 are better, very low noise but need to be cranked to max for gentle acoustic guitar and an SM57 but then my ZED10 is also almost flat out for that as well. The ZED is btw, better* than the Berry 802 mixer it replaced but not "night and day" better (much better built of course!) .

Get the duvets out mate!

* I suspect it has massively more headroom and that is the failing of a lot cheaper gear (cheaper to build with 12volt internal rails) but since I only need ~half a volt to drive my 2496, not an issue.

Dave.