Ion iED01 Electronic Drums - Adequate?

  • Thread starter Thread starter bongolation
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bongolation said:
If these were anywhere locally where I could check them out, I would in a heartbeat, as all I'm really concerned about is the latency issue (which I suspect is BS, as there's no technical necessity for more than about 10ms uncompensated latency). I can get that scienced out in ten seconds with earphones.

All these things have to do for me is be a better percussion MIDI controller than a cheap keyboard. Enough silicone glue can take care of everything else. ;)
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Yup... My sentiments exactly... I'm leaning towards the percussion pads at the moment though... This product seems risky...

I'm thinking something like this would get me by til I can get some live drums...
 
peritus said:
Yup... My sentiments exactly... I'm leaning towards the percussion pads at the moment though... This product seems risky...

I'm thinking something like this would get me by til I can get some live drums...
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Couple of points: Other than the control box, all these various sets really amount to is a bunch of piezo sensors stuck on the backs of things you hit. Seriously. That's all they are. One feels more like a real drum to someone, or the cymbal pads swing like real cymbals, or not even your roadie can bend or break them...but that's totally unimportant to me for my purposes, and a $1600 set won't do $1 more for me in real terms than this set will if it works, and that's the bottom line. I just need a velocity-sensitive something more or less drumlike to gate a software percussion synthesizer.

Second point: Playing drums on a keyboard is just too unnatural for me. I've tried, but it just ain't happenin'. I can't play an acoustic set in the studio because of noise concerns, mainly my destroyed ears, and I don't have room anyway. I have to have an electronic set to gate the computer and the smallest, least expensive set that can perform the function in a kit-like way without actually failing is the best choice for the application.

The requirements here are modest. :rolleyes:
 
bongolation said:
Couple of points: Other than the control box, all these various sets really amount to is a bunch of piezo sensors stuck on the backs of things you hit. Seriously. That's all they are. One feels more like a real drum to someone, or the cymbal pads swing like real cymbals, or not even your roadie can bend or break them...but that's totally unimportant to me for my purposes, and a $1600 set won't do $1 more for me in real terms than this set will if it works, and that's the bottom line. I just need a velocity-sensitive something more or less drumlike to gate a software percussion synthesizer.

Second point: Playing drums on a keyboard is just too unnatural for me. I've tried, but it just ain't happenin'. I can't play an acoustic set in the studio because of noise concerns, mainly my destroyed ears, and I don't have room anyway. I have to have an electronic set to gate the computer and the smallest, least expensive set that can perform the function in a kit-like way without actually failing is the best choice for the application.

The requirements here are modest. :rolleyes:
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Don't get the wrong idea... I'm not fighting you on your logic or anything. On the contrary, I agree on all of your points thus far (save the fact that I will have an acoustic kit someday (probably in addition to a midi kit)).... Just throwing that out there too... The point was, in my previous post, was not really the keyboard, but the drumpads... I'm on your side bro.. :)
 
bongolation said:
Couple of points: Other than the control box, all these various sets really amount to is a bunch of piezo sensors stuck on the backs of things you hit. Seriously. That's all they are. One feels more like a real drum to someone, or the cymbal pads swing like real cymbals, or not even your roadie can bend or break them...but that's totally unimportant to me for my purposes, and a $1600 set won't do $1 more for me in real terms than this set will if it works, and that's the bottom line. I just need a velocity-sensitive something more or less drumlike to gate a software percussion synthesizer.

Second point: Playing drums on a keyboard is just too unnatural for me. I've tried, but it just ain't happenin'. I can't play an acoustic set in the studio because of noise concerns, mainly my destroyed ears, and I don't have room anyway. I have to have an electronic set to gate the computer and the smallest, least expensive set that can perform the function in a kit-like way without actually failing is the best choice for the application.

The requirements here are modest. :rolleyes:
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Have you ever done any electronics assembly? Maybe you could put together one of these, http://www.edrum.info/index.html, combined with stuff like this, http://edrum.for.free.fr/, to put together what you need. I've thought about going this route many times. Usually though, I'm too broke or unmotivated to do anything about it.

After looking over the midi module a couple of times, it does'nt look very hard to build. The creator, Admir, says latency is around 4ms which is probably the same for other hi dollar modules. The price to put together the module is supposed to be 60 euro = $72. The drum stuff could be thrown together pretty cheap too out of pvc, wood, nuts/bolts, piezos, and wire, if you are'nt too concerned with cosmetics (sounds like your not). Here's the e-drum features:

15 velocity sensitive trigger inputs with adjustable gain
Five Dual Piezo inputs:
Hi-Hat top/edge
Snare head/rim
Crash Cymbal 1 bell/edge
Crash Cymbal 2 bell/edge
Ride Cymbal bell/edge
Two mode HiHat pedal operation:
Pedal potentiometer
Foot controller (CC04)
Four Mono Piezo inputs:
Bass Drum
Lo Tom
Mid Tom
Hi Tom
Two cymbal choke inputs
VU-Meters for each channel
Overflow indicator on each channel

Not bad for a $75 box. When uncle sam sends me some cash, I just might take a stab at it.
 
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TravisinFlorida said:
Have you ever done any electronics assembly? Maybe you could put together one of these, http://www.edrum.info/index.html, combined with stuff like this, http://edrum.for.free.fr/, to put together what you need. I've thought about going this route many times. Usually though, I'm too broke or unmotivated to do anything about it.

After looking over the midi module a couple of times, it does'nt look very hard to build. The creator, Admir, says latency is around 4ms which is probably the same for other hi dollar modules. The price to put together the module is supposed to be 60 euro = $72. The drum stuff could be thrown together pretty cheap too out of pvc, wood, nuts/bolts, piezos, and wire if you are'nt too concerned with cosmetics. Here's the e-drum features:

15 velocity sensitive trigger inputs with adjustable gain
Five Dual Piezo inputs:
Hi-Hat top/edge
Snare head/rim
Crash Cymbal 1 bell/edge
Crash Cymbal 2 bell/edge
Ride Cymbal bell/edge
Two mode HiHat pedal operation:
Pedal potentiometer
Foot controller (CC04)
Four Mono Piezo inputs:
Bass Drum
Lo Tom
Mid Tom
Hi Tom
Two cymbal choke inputs
VU-Meters for each channel
Overflow indicator on each channel

Not bad for a $75 box.
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I wouldn't mind trying something like this but, honestly, I'm scared of PCB making techniques... I looked for a kit on his site... Didn't see one.... Sweet link though..
 
bongolation said:
[Playing drums on a keyboard is just too unnatural for me. I've tried, but it just ain't happenin'. I can't play an acoustic set in the studio because of noise concerns, mainly my destroyed ears, and I don't have room anyway.
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I hear you. I've drummed for years although it's not my primary instrument. I tried the keyboard and software sampling approaches and never liked the results; as importantly, I never enjoyed the process. I wanted to play the drums with sticks and pedals! IF--a huge IF--you can play real drums, then either the Yamaha dd55 (which I own and heartily recommend if you can get past its toy-like appearance), Ion set, or any reasonably cheap digital rig will almost certainly be useful for you, despite the obvious limits at that price point.

By the way, when I researched the dd-55, I found a sizable group of naysayers who clearly let me know that it was garbage, nothing more. With some poking around, though, I found some reviewers (a couple of professional studio guys included) who were actually using the dd-55 in their studios. Their feedback was specific and balanced, and I have since found their take on things to be correct for me. Thus, my advice: beware of vague, unsubstantiated attacks, especially the strongest ones, that could lead you away from a potentially very useful product for your (and my) humble needs. You know what I mean. There are definitely trade-offs with such cheap products, but that certainly doesn't mean that these products don't admirably fill a niche for some of us.

Case in point: here's a nicely balanced review of the $200 dd-55 written by someone who also owns and plays real drums. He touches upon most of what I've found to be true with this machine in my own modest home studio.

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/drums-percussion/yamaha-dd55/417247/

J.
 
does it have variable hi hat control or chokeable cymbals?
 
Hey, I'll tell you what: I reordered the iED01 set from Amazon.

It's pretty clear on careful re-reading that the UK guy who was beefing in that old Usenet thread about something he got for fifty pounds was referring to an entirely different item. The details & description simply don't fit this set.

Fragility is not a concern. I can fix every problem I've read of so far, if it comes up, which it probably won't. I know the typical drummer; he'll break an anvil. That's not me.

At the price, it doesn't have to do much, the Alesis controller should work OK with minimal latency (which can be compensated for in Cubase anyway) and I'm just too disorganized to try to build a set. I've considered and rejected that possibility. The "better" Yamaha & Roland sets just don't show up at an acceptable discount, even used. I've been looking for two years. I could easily afford to pay list on them, but I confess that if I did, I'd never get over resenting them every time I looked at them. It's all about the deal for me, and I can't get one on those sets...plus they're excessive to my needs.

We'll see what happens.
 
Congrats, Bong! Do let us know your reaction once you've lived with it a bit. I needed about a week of nightly practice with my Yamaha before I felt comfortable enough to record anything.

Travis, the answer's no to both questions. The hi-hat is open or closed only, and to be frank, it's the weakest link in the sound chain. But c'mon, man, it's a ridiculously cheap machine, so you can't expect more than the basics. I'll tell you something, though: some of the toms and cymbals are so acoustic-sounding that I easily visualize an acoustic kit while playing--and better yet, while listening to my recordings later. Some of the samples, even on that cheapie rig, sound simply brilliant to my modest ears.

Happy drumming, all~
J.
 
Hey, if I don't like 'em, I can easily offload them on the local CraigsList music gear forum. [shrug] ;)
 
I have the ION set

Hey,
I have the ION set. I used to own and love the Alesis SR-16. The sounds were so CHEESY, but I loved them for their shortcomings. I used it to have the sound of a drum machine. When I saw the ION, I immediately recognized that it was a rebadged SR16. I got mine at Best Buy for $250 bucks. I figured, the $149 it costs to buy an SR-16 and $100 for a drumkit controller....DUH! I already have an M-Audio Trigger finger. It cost me $200. I have made some great stuff using the Trigger Finger with reason, but I don't think it is worth $50 let alone $200. This is because the pads are hard and cause discomfort.
As far as the ION is concerned, the way it works is it has its own little box where the triggers are plugged in via a 1/8" mono plug and converted to MIDI. Then a short MIDI cord connects to the SR-16. What is cool about this is that you can simply forgo the SR16 all together and plug straight into your midi input and use Reason or whatever else you prefer. This is very cool.
Drawbacks: The kick and hi-hat are more like toys than an electric drumkit should have. The kick does tend to double trigger sometimes. If anyone here could tell me how to build a trigger that I could use with a standard kick pedal...FILL ME IN. The pads work well, but they are not soft and cause some discomfort to my hands when playing. I got some Ziljian anti-vibe sticks that have a shock absorbtion layer inside that helps considerably.
Again, it is worth it though. Even with its shortcomings, it is just as useable as the cheapest Boss stuff that will run you at least $800 bucks.
Hope this helps.
 
While I probably wouldn't recommend RadioShack for most items, it is my understanding that these will work perfectly for diy drum triggers. I'm going to be make some of my own very soon, and these are what I plan to use.
 
tubesandteles said:
Hey, I have the ION set...As far as the ION is concerned, the way it works is it has its own little box where the triggers are plugged in via a 1/8" mono plug and converted to MIDI. Then a short MIDI cord connects to the SR-16. What is cool about this is that you can simply forgo the SR16 all together and plug straight into your midi input and use Reason or whatever else you prefer. This is very cool.
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Sounds like heaven to me! I'd sell the dang old SR-16/NOT on CraigsList.

BUT...that arrangement isn't what it shows in the .PDF of the instruction manual. Looky here. Where did that great MIDI-box go? Is the set changed? Is the illustration erroneous? :confused:
Drawbacks: The kick and hi-hat are more like toys than an electric drumkit should have. The kick does tend to double trigger sometimes. If anyone here could tell me how to build a trigger that I could use with a standard kick pedal...FILL ME IN.
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Couldn't one simply prise out the piezo element from the funky pedal and silicone glue it onto the back of a board that would get socked by a regular bass pedal? This isn't rocket science...it's just a bunch of stock piezo sensors attached to stuff that gets hit. If the stock unit isn't any good for bass, couldn't you just get a Red-Hot and use that instead?
The pads work well, but they are not soft and cause some discomfort to my hands when playing. I got some Ziljian anti-vibe sticks that have a shock absorbtion layer inside that helps considerably.
Again, it is worth it though. Even with its shortcomings, it is just as useable as the cheapest Boss stuff that will run you at least $800 bucks.
Hope this helps.
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Yep, it does.

Note that I am not intending this for anything except composing loops, which I can then extensively edit in Cubase. I don't intend to play them a lot. I won't get sore hands from flogging this thing to pieces.
 
I think you'd be better off ditchin that toy kick and using a real kick like you mentioned. Did you see the link above for the kick trigger thing? It should work fine. I'd wait on tearing up the pedal until you figure out if the rest of the kit is gonna be useable though, in case you decide to return it. Hell, piezos are cheap. Just buy one and leave the toy kick in tact. Maybe you could ebay it. BTW, what software are you gonna be using with that kit?
 
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I got my ION set for $300 at Target

That's right, I actually bought an electronic drum set at Target. I set it up within 1.5 hrs. It sounds pretty good through an old amp, but I now need to test it through my PA. I bought it to use as a practice kit in my garage, but I may decide to add it to my existing acoustic drum set. The first thing I noticed with the set is I definitely need more pads. I will buy the $50 expansion kit. I think 2 more pads should do it. Once I receive them and get a little time behind me on the set, I will record and upload some recordings to my www.energy-escape.com webpage under the www.tpkdrummer.com website. I have a few of my recordings there already. I play drums, guitar, bass, and keys. I use a Tascam 2488 to record. L8r...
 
tpkdrummer said:
That's right, I actually bought an electronic drum set at Target. I set it up within 1.5 hrs. It sounds pretty good through an old amp, but I now need to test it through my PA. I bought it to use as a practice kit in my garage, but I may decide to add it to my existing acoustic drum set. The first thing I noticed with the set is I definitely need more pads. I will buy the $50 expansion kit. I think 2 more pads should do it. Once I receive them and get a little time behind me on the set, I will record and upload some recordings to my www.energy-escape.com webpage under the www.tpkdrummer.com website. I have a few of my recordings there already. I play drums, guitar, bass, and keys. I use a Tascam 2488 to record. L8r...
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I'm anxious to hear the results! Is there any problems with hitting a pad or pedal and not having a signal go through? Is there any crosstalk (hit one pad, and another goes off)?
 
Elaborate on homemade kick pedal

Could someone explain how to make a trigger that I could make and use that would be better than the one with the kit? I would appreciate it. Thanks.
 
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