Invert polarity on FX-channel
- Thread starter paw1
- Start date
Steenamaroo
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I'm pretty sure it is, but that's easy to test.
Duplicate track, 'rotate' one, see if they cancel.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
"Rotate 180°" is about the worst way to describe inverting polarity that I've seen lately, but that's probably what it is. It implies that you can rotate it by some other value which is impossible for polarity when there's only one amplitude dimension, confusing it with phase which can be any value from 0° up to 360°.
Inverting polarity means that all positive parts of the signal turns negative and vise versa. A 180 degree rotation is a signal displacement of half a cycle.
An inverted and non-inverted signal at the same amplitudes should cancel each other out completely.
A signal rotated 180 degrees combined with a non-rotated signal at the same amplitudes will cancel each other out to a certain degree, but almost never completely (unless the signal is a perfect sine-wave or the like).
If the function called "180 degrees" really is phase inversion, then they are using the wrong terminology, and Steinberg should know better!
Thanks for the tip Steenamaroo, didn't think of that!
Best regards
-paw
An inverted and non-inverted signal at the same amplitudes should cancel each other out completely.
A signal rotated 180 degrees combined with a non-rotated signal at the same amplitudes will cancel each other out to a certain degree, but almost never completely (unless the signal is a perfect sine-wave or the like).
If the function called "180 degrees" really is phase inversion, then they are using the wrong terminology, and Steinberg should know better!
Thanks for the tip Steenamaroo, didn't think of that!
Best regards
-paw
Steenamaroo
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Thanks for the tip Steenamaroo, didn't think of that!
Did you try it to see?
At what frequency?
Phase can't be inverted, even with a perfect sinewave.
Phase can be shifted (time adjustment) and polarity can be inverted (static adjustment).
If Steinberg is really offering a tool to adjust phase by a half cycle, there would be an option to choose a reference frequency.
Plus, I can't think of any reason to have such a tool. Maybe that's just me though.
Googling "cubase 180 rotation" turns up this thread and two irrelevant ones. Jimmy?????
Guillermo N
New member
Steenamaroo
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"Yes, we used the wrong terminology", or "Yes, we meant what we said"?
Not being awkward but saying it's phase inversion doesn't really clarify anything.
Didn't need to as I got the answer from Guillermo N.
Good question! Can't answer that, but that is what a 180 degree rotation is (displacement of half a cycle).
There, you caught me using the wrong terminology!
Of course I meant polarity inversionYou are absolutely correct. I didn't think beyond signals of a specific pitch. My bad.
Steenamaroo
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bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
You can't invert phase, you can only shift it. If you specify degrees you have to reference a frequency or it is meaningless.
Steenamaroo
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Must spread......Thank you.
Guillermo N
New member
Hello steenamaroo,
Yes, we meant what we said, would be the answer.
And I wouldn't say it is the wrong terminology.
Sorry if you already know this and I am being redundant.
But a phase inversion is the process of swapping two poles, changing plus for minus.
So yes, you do invert the polarity.
Best regards,
GN
Yes, we meant what we said, would be the answer.
And I wouldn't say it is the wrong terminology.
Sorry if you already know this and I am being redundant.
But a phase inversion is the process of swapping two poles, changing plus for minus.
So yes, you do invert the polarity.
Best regards,
GN
Steenamaroo
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Saying "Yes, it's phase inversion" means nothing in a thread where people have pointed out that phase can be shifted and polarity can be inverted.
Sorry to be picky, but phase inversion isn't a thing in audio.
People get confused because a sine wave is often used to represent these things in diagrams.
A flipped polarity sine wave and a sine wave shifted by 180 degrees look the same IF you ignore the fact that the latter starts and ends half a cycle later than all the rest.
What does the button do?
Sorry to be picky, but phase inversion isn't a thing in audio.
People get confused because a sine wave is often used to represent these things in diagrams.
A flipped polarity sine wave and a sine wave shifted by 180 degrees look the same IF you ignore the fact that the latter starts and ends half a cycle later than all the rest.
What does the button do?
Guillermo N
New member
Hello,
According to your link, then the name should be changed...
But what it does: It inverts the polarity of the signal.
Best regards,
GN
According to your link, then the name should be changed...
But what it does: It inverts the polarity of the signal.
Best regards,
GN
Steenamaroo
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bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
"Phase inversion" has a long tradition as the description for polarity inversion and could possibly be considered correct, but the potential for misunderstanding makes it a poor choice when precision is desired. I makes sense to keep phase in the time domain and polarity in the amplitude domain.
Steenamaroo
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Yeah man. I hate being picky about it, but since this thread was 100% centred around terminology confusion, I thought a dictionary definition answer was needed. 
Guillermo, I wasn't trying to have a go at you or anything.
Guillermo, I wasn't trying to have a go at you or anything.