Integrating an ADAT into a digital audio/sequencing workstation

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anppilot

anppilot

Never Act Like U Know All
I have a general question about Alesis ADATS. I use Cubase VST for all of my MIDI sequencing and digital audio recording. I am considering purchasing a used ADAT on Ebay. I always see them listed in the neighborhood of $400-$900. The owners are usually good about telling the potential customer about how many hours are on the machine roughly.

What I would like to know from you experienced ADAT users is this: Is it possible, or how is it possible for me to sync an ADAT to cubase so when I start recording in Cubase, the ADAT will start recording also at the same time?

Is this done via MIDI, or some other type of digital sync. This is where I get lost. Im pretty much a MIDI meat and potatoes kind of guy. I dont usually do alot of audio recording.

Second, if I use the ADAT for vocals and Im using a Roland SRD-3030 Pro 24 bit digital reverb, do you guys record your vocals dry then mix in your reverb later? If so, can I record a vocal track dry, then bounce it over to another track with the effects added in?

Bottom line guys clue me in how I can Integrate the ADAT in to my use of computer based sequencing, and how to use the ADAT for vocals then adding effects.

Thanks in advance :)
 
Alesis guy

Hi, anppilot,

Using Mac or PC? Which model, processor, RAM, etc.?

To punch in on an ADAT from Cubase you need to activate MMC (MIDI Machine Control) in Cubase. You would need either a PCI card with an ADAT SYNC OUT port (ours is the PCR card) or an interface box that converts the serial info from the computer to ADAT SYNC (such as the MOTU TimePiece or Digital TimePiece).

To punch in on the ADAT from Cubase, you need to go to your corresponding audio track in Cubase, and make it into a TAPE TRACK in the track pulldown menu. When you punch in, Cubase will send an MMC command to the ADAT to go into Record, and the same for punch out.

Regarding "printing" with reverb, I never do. Reverb that sounds good solo'd with a track will not sound as "wet" in the mix. So if you record tracks after your effected track, you may find yourself having to add more reverb later. Also, unless you want a mono reverb, you will actually need 2 tracks for each effected track, so you can have some "spread" to your effect. Best to save effects for mixdown...the last thing you want is to discover at mixdown that you don't like the particular (recorded) effect on the vocal after all....

hope this helps,

Mike
 
Im just going to jump in here and be of no particular help. I own the pcr card but have never done midi with it but it works otherwise for me. There have been lots of problems with this card and compatibility with different pc manufacurers configurations. Also it is not full duplex. It is not highly recommended. Support is hard to reach (especially now) and the wait on the phone is on the average 20 minutes (before bankruptcy).

Anppilot, I tried going into my pc with my QS8, bought a midi cable and hooked it up to my joystick port and got no further (I have cubase). Went back to my old mac where I have no problems, if ya have the time to answer could you explain your setup, i/o settings etc. in cubase and on the pc if possible.

Mnicolleti-since my pcr card is not full duplex and I cant monitor while recording can I use my soundblaster as playback and the pcr for record and have them work at the same time. When I go to multimedia on the control panel it doesnt see my pcr card and I cant change my preffered soundcard. When I go to device manager my pcr card is recognized and has no problems and it really works. I had my system wiped and windows 98 reinstalled
and all my software reinstalled, before this I could go to multimedia and my pcr card was there and I could select between them. Any clues?
And, does anyone remember where that dma(in the pc) box is so I can check it
 
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Hi, Dragonworks,

1. Actually the card is full duplex. It will play back the tracks you have recorded while recording the new tracks (as long as you select it as your Output device in Cubase and select those outputs in Cubase's mixer). Playback is through the dig outs of course since there is no analog i/o on the card. What are you using for A/D and D/A converters?

2. Which Soundblaster do you have? You can select it as your Playback device while PCR is your record device, but be aware of any latency (delay) in the playback, because you may be recording while listening to delayed audio. Not a definite, but something to test. Soundblaster probably has low latency; I just wanted to raise a flag...though I don't have an animated .gif :p

2. The DMA box is in DEVICE MANAGER/DISK DRIVES/GENERIC IDE DRIVE/SETTINGS.

3. In Cubase if you go into OPTIONS/MIDI SETUP/SYSTEM, does your soundcard show up in the Devices in the right hand window? It should, and selecting it here should allow you to use your card's joystick port.

4. I am not sure why PCR does not show in Multimedia, but you do not want to select it there anyway. Windows sounds will try to play through the card while you are playing back audio in your program and conflicts can occur.

4. Pre-Chap 11 our hold times hit 20 minutes occasionally, but this was not an average; even during Chap 11. the average is 10-12 minutes. This varies with phone traffic...two days ago the average at the end of the day was 5+ minutes. Sometimes it seems like you all call at the same time! ;)

Awaiting your reply,

Mike
 
mnicoletti, never used the card with cubase only with the software it came with, adat edit. I am not trying to cause a rucus but everytime I called alesis it was at least a 20 minute wait, we timed it and that was at least 5 times. I was told by tech support the card is not full duplex. I am using my adat as my digital converter on the way in, what would I use on the way out? I will have to check my sound card, will get back with you on that. As a matter of fact tech support was very iffy, sometimes you would get someone who was knowledgable and other times you would get dummies. I called one time, just had the adat fixed, I had a stuck tape with an alarm I cant remember, I called tech support, explained the alarm etc and they said to bring it to have it repaired again. I just laid out 300.00 for what I didnt even know so I went inside and found a broken band on the eject motor which I replaced with a rubber band and got the machine going again. You would think that with the trouble and alarm I had described that a tech would pinpoint that as one of the problems that could cause this but they didn't want to take a stab at it. Most reps were pretty good though. I was informed by tech support that I would have to by another set of digital converters if I wanted to monitor while recording?
 
Hi, Dragonworks,

I'm curious how long ago you called....like many companies from time to time we have had some techs who were better than others, but just before our Chap 11 layoffs, I really think we had our best staff, not only knowledge-wise but people-skill-wise, so please let me know when you called us last.

The PCR card is indeed full duplex. I'm sorry you got bad info about that. BUT, it can only be full duplex with the appropriate ancillary hardware, i.e independent A/D and D/A converters.

The ADAT has one choice: either Analog In or Digital In. When recording to the computer you are using it as an A/D converter, and you set it for Analog In. To listen back to the computer through the PCR card, you need to set it for Digital In. That is why you cannot hear playback from the computer while you record additional tracks...has nothing to do with the card. Many customers run into this same thing.

Our AI-3 was designed for just this use: 8 balanced TRS Analog Ins and 8 balanced TRS Analog Outs (to and from your mixer), and Optical In and Out (to and from the PCR card). Monitor your computer tracks and overdub new ones all day long. With Optical In connected to the AI-3, the AI-3 automatically sets itself as clock slave, so no clocking issues to be concerned with.

Hope this helps,

Mike
 
how much is the a1-3. I was doing most of the calling around nov
1999 to feb 2000. Just to let you know the pcr card has been cut to pieces at this site and no one will stick up for it. Before I bought it I called tech support and gave them my computer specs and they said no problem. Card would not work, 400.00 worth of upgrades later still wouldnt work, bought new computer now it works. If you want the real in the field low down on this card get the sonusman to tell you the tales of woe we have encountered with this thing.
 
Hi, dragonworks,

Oh I know well the woe....I am still wearing the tourniquets and asbestos from these flaming messages. :p

If you would indulge me, what are the specs of the new computer versus the old computer? There may be something that sticks out as the culprit on the old system that I might catch...

Also, have you downloaded adat/connect 1.03 and adat/edit 2.0 from our site? edit now supports 24 bits on PC (Emagic kept us waiting a long time for this) and now uses ADAT SYNC, so the sync is tighter than MIDI Time Code sync.

The AI-3 lists for $499.00. I forgot to mention that it is +4/-10 switchable via front panel, and also has a DIG OUT select switch. This determinces the source for the Optical Out signal: ANALOG means it is looking at the analog in, acting as an A/D converter. DIGITAL means the Optical Out is looping the Optical In, so you can have it in an ADAT Optical chain, if a user wants to drop it into an ADAT system.

thanks,

Mike
 
First time around was with compac presario 233 pentium 3? dont remember all the specs, would not work. Next upgrade to 333 mhz amd k6-2, new mother board tower etc. no workie, next new computer, amd athlon K7 650mhz no problemo.
 
Mnicolleti, I would just like to take this time to thank you and to let you know that this is the kind of tech rep every company should have, down in the dirt on forums like this takin on the tough questions and seperating fact from myth. I own a few different alesis units, adat, pcr card, QS8, midiverb,32 band eq,3630, and every one of them has worked flawlessly since day one for 4 years and the only ones I bought new were the QS8 and the mididverb. Well I did have the adat repaired once, I think
I got ripped. But back to the subject, if more of your tech staff did this the company would be much better off. One techie on the phone got me so pissed that I replied that "so what your telling me is next time I should buy Tascam", he replied no and I replied
"yes you are" and hung up on him. I think it was the rubber band incicdent, so if anyone calls you with a stuck tape tell to check the eject motor belt and if it is broken they can replace it with a rubber band of suitable size until they order the belt set.
PS, now my pcr card doesnt show up anywhere in the device manager, will have to check to see if it works and download latest software you mentioned. Whats up with lightpipe out on the QS8 to lightpipe in on the adat, I gave it a try and no go really; it worked but I couldnt control volume (to low)didnt go over well at all cant remeber all that was wrong?
See first I suck up and then hit ya with a question, I hope it wasnt you that I got down on in the above mentioned? if so
I apologize, if not, man am I a weasel or what?
 
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Oh boy......:(

mnicolleti, I find it amazing that you will still stick up for that PCR card!

I downloaded the latest software. The new Edit software crashes EVERY time I try to use it!!! This is a fresh 98 install.

Here is the deal mnicolleti. Give me your extention at work so that I can enter it in when I call the 1-800. I am going to give YOU a chance to walk through EVERYTHING to make this card work. Your damn company advertises that it is an easy to do install and will integrate into "any ADAT system seemlessly". Great!!! Not been anybodies experience I have talked with who tried the card (many) nor mine. It seems that the suggestions from Alesis ALWAYS involve upgrading the computer to some super machine with SCSI Ultra2 LVD drives, or purchasing yet another piece of gear from Alesis. When it is not those, it is some fault of the computers (which already EXCEEDS the minimum system requirements your guys have right on the box!). I was told my Maxtor Diamond Max, 7200rpm ATA66 drive with a Promise controller won't work with your card!!! Oh boy!!! One of the best IDE hard drives made concerning throughput, and IT specifically won't work? :( I have NEVER seen a soundcard in my life that has had so many problems "seemlessly" integrating!

Oh, back to the deal. I want YOUR extention and I will call you and we will do whatever to make my PCR card work. My requirements are that I can transfer 8 tracks to or from the computer, 20bit 48KHz sampling rate for AT LEAST 10 mins straight without so much as a hiccup EVER in the transfer. If you can make that happen, I will leave you alone. If not! Look out because I am going to embarrass the hell out of you and Alesis yet again!

You game? If not, I will call you a corporate pimp and dispute everything you say in any post. This is not a threat rather a very real promise. This is now the time to put up or shut up on this BBS. I have written off this card as working and have reached wits end in making it do so. I can transfer via AES/EBU 24/48 stuff via my Lynx One card for OVER AN HOUR without a single hiccup anywhere! I have NEVER did even ONE TRACK of transfer on the PCR card that lasted more then 4.5 mins!!! That was a 16 bit transfer!!!! So, whatever that means.....This card is STILL not as advertised by Alesis. But to make this fair, since I spent $1000 on hard drives and SCSI controllers to make this card work (since SCSI seems to be the magic word at Alesis for some reason, even though the minimum system requirements don't call for it!) I will ALSO install this card on a brand spanking new Sony VIAO that I have transferred 8 tracks at once via another ADAT Lightpipe interface for over 10 minutes without a hitch. We can then truely see if your card works on the average machine (actually not quite so average, the Sony, but more average than my machine).

But, I will give you the chance to prove me wrong. I am sure that you are itching to do so to shut me up and if I can FINALLY (after TWO YEARS!!!) have this card working AS ADVERTISED, why, I would let you spank my ass in public.

Feel free to email that extention to me directly at echostar@pacifier.com .

Sincerely

Ed
 
Come on Mike. I KNOW you have read my above post!

I will give you the email link again. echostar@pacifier.com

You only need to write in an extension number in the email. You don't even need to reply to this thread. I will drop EVERYTHING I am doing and lug the computer back down to the studio and hook it back up and call you and we will get this wonderful card working straight off. I am SURE that I have covered most every base imaginable and am just waiting for the magic setting that will actually make it work.

Ed
 
I'm here I'm here!

Well, Ed, since I do not use PCAnywhere, I KNOW you cannot "know" that I read your thread. Actually, this is honestly the first time I have seen this message...and you only wrote it 2 days ago...come on now, I have two departments to run at Alesis, and help oversee a third...and I try to turn on my studio at home ONCE in a while! :p

I will email you BOTH my extensions, Ed, but today I am in the middle of inventory (oh the joy). Feel free to give me your phone number and the best time to call you. I will even call at night or this weekend. I am not doing this to shut you up...no really! ;) I am doing this to support you as a customer. As I said in a previous post, if you were local, I'd make a house call. I think I asked in a previous post, have we ever swapped the card for you, just to make sure? I have also offered to test your card here, but you did not reply (I don't think).

Dragonworks, thanks for the nice words. Would know the name of the tech you spoke to and when this was? Maybe it was the tech I already let go. ;) If you know the name you can email me at mnicoletti@alesis.com. I love your idea about other techs posting, but since the Chapter 11, I only have three techs on the phones, and one handles mostly our sales reps, so really two full time. It's been rough.

thanks,

Mike
 
M+N, even if I remembered the techs name I wouldnt tell ya, I wouldnt want to be responsable for having someone fired; hell,
maybe he was having a bad day, I knew I was. What about that lightpipe from QS8 to adat question? Whats the deal?
Ed, seems like M+N is going to try and get that card going for you, keep us posted.
Evrything with the card is now showing up, it had come loose, its this damn cheap case, I didnt have an offset phillips head when I installed it and couldnt get the screw as tight as necessary, that has now been addressed.
My power supply blew but I just got that fixed and also upgraded to 378 ram, that should help some. Arent computers great.
 
Hi, Dragonworks,

Glad the card is showing up again! I've found that it is also sometimes a seating issue when adat/connect is Master but says Master No Slave. This is because the sync pins are at the back of the row of pins and if the back of the card is not fully seated, you can get that message (and in our beige G3 at work, just screwing the card in can raise the back of the card! :mad: )

Re: QS-8:

The digital output is a set level...the volume slider is an analog
control only. We used to have a digital encoder as a volume pot (on older keyboards) but if you turned it down, you were using less bits. Some customers gain-staged incorrectly, and had the pot low enough to get digital quantization noise.

Because the dig out is not affected by the output level slider, single notes come out a bit low, but we had to leave headroom available for the hard hitting chords...

Mike
 
Mike
In relation to the pcr card; the first time around when I had the compaq pressario upgraded the tech installed a motherboard with an onboard soundchip and it was impossible to seperate the irqs of the chip and card, if I changed one the other followed and whenever I wanted to use one card or the other I had to disable the unused one in my device manager so the other would work. It was a computer problem not a card problem. It definately would not work with the original presarrio 233 MHZ 64 ram. I had called alesis prior to buying it and was told 200MHZ 32 ram minimum.:cool: :cool:
 
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