Insulation behind dry wall?

  • Thread starter Thread starter fuzzsniffvoyage
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fuzzsniffvoyage

fuzzsniffvoyage

Well-known member
I'm going to be gutting my basement and refinishing it. Does it matter much what kind of insulation I use in the ceiling? I'm planning on doubling up on the sheet rock to help as a barrier from up stairs. And as far as the walls go, I'm going single sheets with insulation behind, maybe a spray in or something moisture resistant. Though I am install a dehumidifier.

I'm painting the floor with epoxy, like the kind you'd paint on your garage floor, and going to use area rugs.

The room is going to be 25' x 35' (rounded) and 8' ceilings.

I have 5k allocated for this renovation. (Including tear out) This also includes running electric & installing lights. The only catch is I must use a licensed contractor.

After the renovation, I have another 1k to use for acoustic treatment. OC 703 or what ever I decide to use.

So at this point I'm mainly concerned with what's inside the walls.
 
Seems to be, for the outside walls, other than for heat, if you use drywall, you don't really get much benefit from insulation (sound wise). Now, if you used something like safe and sound and covered with a porous fabric, that would provide frequency control. This is just a question, why couldn't you just fabric with like safe and sound instead of drywall?

For the ceilings, I think doubling up on the drywall makes little sense as I don't think it is as much bang for your buck/effort. Spray foam would work well for "sound proofing". If you go that route, I would put all cables in pvc tubes in case you need to add wires, rework, etc. Maybe foam with acoustic tile would work well for you in the ceilings.

Just some thoughts/ideas.
 
Don't drywall the ceiling of the basement. It turns into a nightmare if you have a plumbing, electrical or heating duct problem in the rest of the house. Eventually, everything in a house sill need to be repaired or replaced, the reason people use drop ceilings in the basement is because the basement ceiling is where you have access to all that stuff for the rest of the house.

Now, if you are just doing a corner of the ceiling that has no utilities in it, that isn't a problem. There are drywall ceiling tiles that you can use for the mass you need to stop the sound.
 
Why not apply a couple of layers of 5/8" drywall AGAINST the bottom of the floor above, between the joist cavities and seal the joints with caulking. Then, that space, the depth of the joists can be filled with standard batt insulation, or better yet, 703, and then covered with fabric. You get increased transmission loss to the upper floor as well as ceiling absorption, which given basements are usually lower in height, will help with comb filtering when using a mic. Just a thought.

There are drywall ceiling tiles that you can use for the mass you need to stop the sound.
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While I've never heard of drywall "tiles", if these are designed to fit into a hung ceiling grid..personally..I'd forget it. With all the joints you might as well not use anything as sound will easily transmit anywhere there is a joint. And it's really not practical to try and "seal" those joints either. In fact, I'd submit it's an expensive lesson in frustration. Of course, that's just my opinion.
 
For the ceilings, I think doubling up on the drywall makes little sense as I don't think it is as much bang for your buck/effort. Spray foam would work well for "sound proofing".
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Ummm, I TOTALLY disagree with you. Two layers of standard drywall is the BEST bang fer buck "soundproofing" you can buy. Unfortunately though, like everything else in "soundproofing", a "weak link" can totally negate all your work and money. Like HVAC DUCTS. One common duct between floors can literally waste your hard earned money and time. Same with pipes, holes, structural transmission and many more things that MUST be addressed as a WHOLE. Simply drywalling a ceiling without addressing all the possible flanking paths is a waste. Building an effective transmission loss envelope takes a whole lot of other things too. Doors, thresholds, jambs, electrical penetrations, windows HVAC and even structural posts/wall assemblies can transmit sound to an upper floor.

As to 'spray foam..for soundproofing. It doesn't.
 
chronicle said:
Why not apply a couple of layers of 5/8" drywall AGAINST the bottom of the floor above, between the joist cavities and seal the joints with caulking. Then, that space, the depth of the joists can be filled with standard batt insulation, or better yet, 703, and then covered with fabric. You get increased transmission loss to the upper floor as well as ceiling absorption, which given basements are usually lower in height, will help with comb filtering when using a mic. Just a thought.
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This^^^100%.
 
fuzzsniffvoyage said:
I'm going to be gutting my basement and refinishing it. Does it matter much what kind of insulation I use in the ceiling? I'm planning on doubling up on the sheet rock to help as a barrier from up stairs. And as far as the walls go, I'm going single sheets with insulation behind, maybe a spray in or something moisture resistant. Though I am install a dehumidifier.

I'm painting the floor with epoxy, like the kind you'd paint on your garage floor, and going to use area rugs.

The room is going to be 25' x 35' (rounded) and 8' ceilings.

I have 5k allocated for this renovation. (Including tear out) This also includes running electric & installing lights. The only catch is I must use a licensed contractor.

After the renovation, I have another 1k to use for acoustic treatment. OC 703 or what ever I decide to use.

So at this point I'm mainly concerned with what's inside the walls.
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Fuzz,
I'll second what chronicle recommended...
Don't us spray-in or eps foam, it's useless acoustically. Epoxy floor is great.
In answer to your main concern, I'll second the Safe'N'Sound.. but good old 'Pink Stuff' from Owens/Corning works best for the money. If you are building with 2 X 4s, use R13 -- 2 X 6s, use R19. etc.

I have a few papers that you may find helpful - "How to find out how much Isolation you need" and "Sound-proofing - The Quest". Available free on my publications page.
Find out what your sound transmission loss target is and then build accordingly.

Cheers,
John
 
Thanks for the advise.

I'm not looking to "sound proof" but knock down on some upstairs noises ie. walking, tv, getting a cup of joe ect. and at the same time have the room sound good (most important) And the room will be pulling double duty as recording and rough mixing. I'll more than likely send my stuff to be mixed and mastered by someone else. Gtr's, bass, drums & vocals.

The house is in a secluded area, so no trains or semi's shakin' the house.

There are 2 windows in the room, they are the block glass. The light outside doesn't matter to me. I can cover them if I need to. Though I was thinking of getting some old stained glass windows to cover them up and add ambiance.

There are no heating ducts, the house is heated with a boiler. Which I'm sure will have more issues to deal with.

A small portion of the house sits on a crawl space that has plumbing and electrical ran.

Speaking of electricity, there is a few open spaces on the breaker box to run some more isolated lines. The lights will be on their own circuit, and I will have 1 for recording gear and 1 for amps.

I have a bit of time. I wont be moving in until next month (hope it doesn't snow) and am in no rush to make any hasty decisions. I might wait until summer to start building.

John thanks for the papers, I have a lot to read now, and a few books to buy.
 
Fuzz,

Note: an isolated circuit has an 'isolation' transformer. The best you can do with residential service is to put your 'studio' circuits on ONLY ONE PHASE. - And, if necessary, run them through an isolation transformer and SurgeX filiters.. but you probably won't need that. Keep them on the same phase and ensure that you have a good ground. Do not violate code, lift grounds, etc... read the papers on Studio Wiring on my pubs page. ;)

Walking noise is mainly (most likely) structure-borne or 'impact' noise. The best way to remedy is AT the source; put a resilient layer on the floor upstairs. For example; padded carpet. If you plan on re-doing the kitchen anyway, you can install QT Sound (regupol) under the tile. This stuff works under hardwood flooring as well. Attention to detail is very important to noise isolation success. ;) (google QT Sound)

Cheers,
John
 
Are you sure you need a contractor to do the work for you?? Maybe where you live it's required, but double check. Hate to see ya spend money on a contractor for work you could do yourself for a third the price. I did all the work for my studio here in TX. I even got a permit and had it inspected and no problem not having a contractor.

Good luck. Building a studio is fun but recording in a studio you built is more fun. :)
 
Chili said:
Are you sure you need a contractor to do the work for you?? Maybe where you live it's required, but double check. Hate to see ya spend money on a contractor for work you could do yourself for a third the price. I did all the work for my studio here in TX. I even got a permit and had it inspected and no problem not having a contractor.
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I don't have the time or know how to frame or run electrical stuff. I work 50-80 hours per week. And I'm not going to trust any old riff raff to come into my home and stomp around ruining or stealing my stuff.
 
Fuzz,

LOL! You're so right. :D

Here in Indonesia we hire people to do things for us around the house, but I have to stand there and watch them so they don't run off with stuff... - or they'll cut corners and do a crappy job. - I might as well do it all myself.
If you are in the U.S. or Europe, you can usually rest assured if you hire a reputable contractor with a 'license'. :)
Cheers,
John
 
I agree with John. Too bad I'm in Denver or I would gladly take on your project.

I would recommend that you sign up with 'Angie's List' to find a contractor. It is the only contractor/services referral service that a contractor cannot buy his way into. A company has to be placed on the list by a member, then continuing reviews are what keep them going. I know, I have 99% straight 'A' rating for the last 5 years. :)
 
jimmys69 said:
I agree with John. Too bad I'm in Denver or I would gladly take on your project.

I would recommend that you sign up with 'Angie's List' to find a contractor. It is the only contractor/services referral service that a contractor cannot buy his way into. A company has to be placed on the list by a member, then continuing reviews are what keep them going. I know, I have 99% straight 'A' rating for the last 5 years. :)
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+1, it really is a good site.
 
If you need to have pros come in to do work on a space that size, you are going to eat through your $5 in no time. I would think only the electrical needs to be done by a licensed contractor, though. Basement will require GFI circuit/outlets, and outlets every xx ft (per local code).
25' x 35' is a big space - there must be support columns/structures? Maybe consider downsizing the project based on where those are?
Although the ideas of skipping drywall/pink insulation on the walls have merit to save money, if there is any chance of you wanting to resell this house in the future, it would be better to have a space that can be used for other purposes (by others), and if your bass traps are all 'built to move' you will be able to change things around now for best sound, and move them to another place later, if needed.
 
mjbphotos said:
If you need to have pros come in to do work on a space that size, you are going to eat through your $5 in no time. I would think only the electrical needs to be done by a licensed contractor, though. Basement will require GFI circuit/outlets, and outlets every xx ft (per local code).
25' x 35' is a big space - there must be support columns/structures? Maybe consider downsizing the project based on where those are?
Although the ideas of skipping drywall/pink insulation on the walls have merit to save money, if there is any chance of you wanting to resell this house in the future, it would be better to have a space that can be used for other purposes (by others), and if your bass traps are all 'built to move' you will be able to change things around now for best sound, and move them to another place later, if needed.
Click to expand...


You could save yourself some money, run the wire yourself. I did my own, put in a couple of new circuits, 20 amps cause I was going to have a lot of electric flowing), let the electrician do the connections and the sign off. I did all of mine, just got the local codes and had an electrician sign off before closing and on final. Cost about $200 just to get the guy to inspect and sign, but saved a lot of money.

It really isn't that hard, get the gauge recommended by the local (they will have it documented) for the circuit being ran, do long runs and most likely connection boxes when bring them together. I didn't need GFI in the basement, just in the bathroom and sinks. As long as you are behind the breaker box (relative to the outside source), it isn't that dangerous. If you run it before your stuff is in, it isn't that hard. You should check into it to see if there are options. Need lots of sockets!
 
I have hired a licensed/bonded contractor. He was referred by my Realtor. We have been in communication about what needs to be done. The 5k is not set in stone. I have a bit more to work with, but I'd like to keep in in that range, don't want to blow thru all my rainy day savings.

I'm scrapping the 2x layer of drywall. As upstairs noises will be minimal. I can put the animals out, and my wife doesn't make that much noise.

Also I'm not that concerned with resale at this time, in the future if I need to I'll put up drywall.

So drywall on the ceiling. The walls will be framed in 2x6's with 4" OC703 and cloth covering, and 4" furring strips on the face of the 2x6's. I'll put clouds above mixing area and corner bass traps and diffusion, mid range treatment as necessary.
 
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