John Willett
Circle Sound Services
The "industry standard" recording vocal mic. is the Neumann U87 - cost around £2,000.
The SM58 is only an "industry standard" for stage use and there are several others that can also be called a standard for this use at a considerably higher price.
The SM58 became a standard for the stage back in the late 1960's because it was extremely rugged and had excellent feedback rejection. It also had a tailored frequency response to lift the vocal above the backing band.
I would say £300 is a very cheap mic. for recording - I don't think I have any mics as cheap as that.
C
Callum
New member
ahh I can see your point, maybe some of my information there was a little misguided. Really a decent microphone is also based on your budget, and myne just so happens to be really low
snow lizard
Dedicated Slacker
The "industry standard" recording vocal mic. is the Neumann U87 - cost around £2,000.
This is an odd statement that goes against what a lot of people that make records for a living have to say about vocal mics. Can o' worms. Still, I guess it might have become "industry standard" some time before Sennheiser put capsule production on an assembly line and changed the head amplifier (the Ai version...).
But I guess it's about as "industry standard" as the U47/U48, or the U67, or the AKG C12 (pre- VR), or the ELA-M 251, or the SM7, or the RCA 44.
Not to mention the many and various other makers of high quality mics like Brauner, Schoeps, Beyer, Microtech Gefell, Bock, Sony et cetera, all but one of which don't have the legendary reputation of Georg Neumann's products behind their designs but somehow manage to get used for studio vocals.
Bono uses an SM58.
Didn't Sinatra use an SM57?
I've always been under the impression that "industry standard" PRACTICE was to audition vocal mics and use the one that works best for a given vocalist and track.
snow lizard
Dedicated Slacker
And there are options. You need to define your budget and your needs and research the candidates to narrow down your choices. Hopefully you don't end up with something harsh and spitty. There are a lot of less than optimal "budget friendly" choices out there, and a few that might suit your needs and budget fairly well.
T
Twinhit
You gotta speak up!
Just what IS the "industry standard"? The top 10 most common microphone choices?
After reading Harvey Gerst's discussion on mics, and reflecting on many other sites I've seen, it seems to me that there is at least a "top ten microphones"
Shure SM57
Shure SM58
Shure SM7
Electrovoice RE-20
AKG C12
AKG C414
Neumann U47
Neumann U67
Neumann U87
Neumann KM84
RCA 44BX
RCA 77DX
Telefunken ELA M250
Telefunken ELA M251
With the exceptions of the SM57 and SM58, I don't know if these are industry standards, but I have an idea that they are renowned microphones among many and appear to be models to become aquainted with as one learns about sound recording.
I am guessing that at one time, some of these were the best mics to be had at the time they were introduced and that they have been used for long in so many recordings may be a contributing factor why they are still among the desireable or dream mics today for the novice, amature and pro. Are they do-all miracle mics? No, not from what I've read.
When somebody says their client sounds better on X brand/model mic that is sub-$1000 opposed to a $10,000 mic, it becomes very clear that there is alot more to a mic/source compatibility than meets the eyes and ears.
I still have a lot to learn but the SM57 and SM58 seem to be the two mics that stand out in the low-price point bracket that apparently that still have the respect of high-end high budget live/studios for key applications where they do in fact sound better.
What a weird world.
Wierd? Weird?
Somebody help me here.... Have I got that general idea right?
After reading Harvey Gerst's discussion on mics, and reflecting on many other sites I've seen, it seems to me that there is at least a "top ten microphones"
Shure SM57
Shure SM58
Shure SM7
Electrovoice RE-20
AKG C12
AKG C414
Neumann U47
Neumann U67
Neumann U87
Neumann KM84
RCA 44BX
RCA 77DX
Telefunken ELA M250
Telefunken ELA M251
With the exceptions of the SM57 and SM58, I don't know if these are industry standards, but I have an idea that they are renowned microphones among many and appear to be models to become aquainted with as one learns about sound recording.
I am guessing that at one time, some of these were the best mics to be had at the time they were introduced and that they have been used for long in so many recordings may be a contributing factor why they are still among the desireable or dream mics today for the novice, amature and pro. Are they do-all miracle mics? No, not from what I've read.
When somebody says their client sounds better on X brand/model mic that is sub-$1000 opposed to a $10,000 mic, it becomes very clear that there is alot more to a mic/source compatibility than meets the eyes and ears.
I still have a lot to learn but the SM57 and SM58 seem to be the two mics that stand out in the low-price point bracket that apparently that still have the respect of high-end high budget live/studios for key applications where they do in fact sound better.
What a weird world.
Wierd? Weird?
Somebody help me here.... Have I got that general idea right?
Supercreep
Lizard People
thread = 
snow lizard
Dedicated Slacker
I before E except after C. Unless it's "weird" or a few other words that don't seem to follow that rule.
The SM57 and SM58 are cheap mics that serve a purpose in the marketplace. Almost all the other mics you mentioned are well known examples of some of the best mics ever made. Now, then, whenever. Is a Volkswagen Lupo as good as a Mercedes Unimog? They're both German so they can't be that much different, right?
Which one is "better", the Lupo or the Unimog?
John Willett
Circle Sound Services
The Ai version was totally Neumann and came several years before Sennheiser bought the company from Georg Neumann's family after he died.
Although Sennheiser moved the factory to the Hannover area the production machinery was moved as well and the capsules are made in a clean room like they have always been.
Neumann is a separate company within the Sennheiser group.
Yup - I didn't say that the U87 was the *only* mic. and there are lots of others - but if any mic. was an "industry standard" it would be the U87 because it works well, sits well in the mix and works with a large variety of stuff. But there are many other mics that can be better depending on what you are doing.
Yes - that is correct (at least by engineers who know what they are doing).
T
Twinhit
You gotta speak up!
Well if I had to choose, I'd go Unimog, the Lupo is quite limited. Both can get you from point a to point b but the Unimog can get you there if the route called for a 4WD.
Shadow_7
New member
Something like an RCA 44. And having his own mic that went everywhere he did. I'm not sure of the validity, but many artists can be picky like that. It only takes a couple bad experiences before you feel compelled to do things your way.
-----
It depends on the industry.
for the stage.
Shure Sm57
Shure Sm58
for the radio / broadcast.
EV RE-20
Shure SM7b
for the Studio.
Neumann U87
Neumann U47
for the concert hall.
Senn. MKH 8040
As far as a short list goes anyway. By no means comprehensive.
T
Twinhit
You gotta speak up!
I don't know but I would say that Sinatra probably had several favorite mics over the span of his career. The RCA 44 was probably a common mic by the time Sinatra got started with the big time studios. The U47 is another that he used probably during his Capitol Records and later years, and IF he used an SM57 it would obviously been later and more likely live. But then.... if he were doing a recording that called for a 57 out of the bunch then I guess that's what he would have used. I don't know if a song arrangement and desired sound would dictate the choice between a U47 and an SM57 (or any other mic), though.
I DO understand that the U47 was a favorite of Sinatra's.
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
Fly me to the moon. 
C
Callum
New member
that's kinda what I do, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person who tries to get the best quality for the cheapest price possible, especially considering im a student and don't have an awful lot of money
Shadow_7
New member
Well budget is always key. If you don't have the money, you can't have the thing. Or at least that's how I operate. Other concerns of course, can you make the thing for less than it costs to buy it? $1K tripods and $0.5K fluid heads are stupid IMO. I still want one though. Is there something similar that's much cheaper. In my case I went with a $0.1K monopod and some accessories. Am I going to be using it enough, or just don't have access to the stuff any other way than ownership? Beyond that it's just a matter of saving for it, which takes time for the more costly things. Assuming some form of positive cash flow.
Mics are not quite hot swappable. They all have personalities of sorts. Some you can cope with for a period of time. Others you want nothing to do with most of the time. Some of the pretty ones have nothing going on under the hood. Some of the ugly ones have some mad skills. And many of the pricey ones have some limited claim to professional (if only in warranty). As much as I am curious about the non-standards, there's just not enough cash flow these days to go to that school for a learning.
snow lizard
Dedicated Slacker
Fair enough. Seems like an honest enough question, but given the nature of what you've asked, it's unanswerable.
There's a bunch of stickies at the top of this forum. You can read them if you're interested in this stuff. One of them is really long. You should read it. If you hit something you don't understand, learn it.
The real question is, what's the best microphone for you? I don't know. I have a few suggestions in mind, but it's probably easier for you to do your own leg work to figure out how and why and what you want to use. You'll learn a lot more that way. Prices range from 5 bucks to over 10 grand. On a budget as limited as yours, you should be able to afford something.
Microphones are tools. The best one is the one that does the job.
Regardless of what you end up with, how you use it will become more important than what mic it is. If you end up with a mic with serious shortcomings you'll need to work harder to get decent results. If you don't know how to use a U47 in a state of the art facility it won't save you. There's no magic bullet.
Welcome to the board. There's a learning curve here. There's also a wealth of information, misinformation and a plethora of multicoloured chicklets here. As you find the answers to your questions, if they don't raise even more questions, you're not trying hard enough.
Good luck!
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
The one that the children can't reach.
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
Let the record show , he took the blows and did it his way
C
Callum
New member
I can see what you mean about learn a lot more than that, I practically taught myself music technology before I started the course, I've been teaching it to myself since I was 14 and really thats how I got where I am today, admittadly microphones wasnt something I looked into much during my early days.
And I dont plan on spending 5-10 grand on mics, I ussually go for about £30-£150 kinda margin cos thats just the best I can afford cos im living off EMA at the moment, tough being a student like
B
buzzard bass
Terminated
I checked out the gallery on Sinatra's site, he's got a different mic in every picture.