im really new to recording and i need some help

  • Thread starter Thread starter joe123456
  • Start date Start date
J

joe123456

New member
hey, i play drums and my Ska band is planning on recording in my basement. A guy in the band has a Boss Br-600 recording interface which we are planning to use, and he also has Sony Acid Pro which we are going to use. We know nothing about mics and whats good and whats not. We are looking for a fairly good sound almost recording studio quality. What mics should i get for my 5 piece drumset. What mics should we get for the singer. What mics should we get for our saxes/trumpet players and for guitar and bass we will just plug into the interface. it doesnt have to be top of the line just middle line and can get a good sound
 
It is 100 percent a combination of budget and whether you absolutely must track live or not.

Tracking individual instruments means you can spend more on fewer microphones.

So, let us know those two things, and in the meantime, search around, as there are plenty of bands just starting out with this stuff that have asked similar questions.
 
joe123456 said:
hey, i play drums and my Ska band is planning on recording in my basement. A guy in the band has a Boss Br-600 recording interface which we are planning to use, and he also has Sony Acid Pro which we are going to use. We know nothing about mics and whats good and whats not. We are looking for a fairly good sound almost recording studio quality. What mics should i get for my 5 piece drumset. What mics should we get for the singer. What mics should we get for our saxes/trumpet players and for guitar and bass we will just plug into the interface. it doesnt have to be top of the line just middle line and can get a good sound
Click to expand...


Like the sticky thread right above your post says... check out:

http://www.hr-faq.org/

These questions are addressed there and the best use of your (and our) time is for you to spend some time reading there and then post about what you don't understand or what isn't covered.

Cheers,

Otto
 
ofajen said:
Like the sticky thread right above your post says... check out:

http://www.hr-faq.org/

These questions are addressed there and the best use of your (and our) time is for you to spend some time reading there and then post about what you don't understand or what isn't covered.

Cheers,

Otto
Click to expand...

But Im bored at work and want to regurgitate the same old crap for the thousandth time!
 
joe123456 said:
We know nothing about mics and whats good and whats not. We are looking for a fairly good sound almost recording studio quality.
Click to expand...

I would give it up and spend your money on something else if that's your goal. Given your current state of development, the only realistic outcome might be a fun little demo project. More than likely, it will sound utterly repugnant. :D By this time next year, maybe you'll work your way up to just "bad," and if you haven't given up on it five years from now, you might even make it to "pretty decent" at some point.

Right now, you might want to just use whatever you're using with your PA system; SM57s, etc. When you figure out what you're doing and what you think is missing, then come back and ask us what you should add.

As negative as I might come accross ... I'm just trying to give you another side of things (more based in reality) to consider.

.
 
So you're looking for a good sound eh? Ok. Here's my 2p.

As you move down the signal chain from initial sound source to a cd product everything becomes less and less important and contributes less to the finished article. So to get a good sound you need to remember:

1# What you are recording is infinately more important that how you record it. Make sure your band can really play the parts and that the material is good. Remember to put on fresh strings, and tune drums and tune guitars etc etc. Get the source right. Don't worry about mics, preamps, audio interfaces until you can honestly say that you've got something worth spending the time and money recording.

But you knew that anyway... so here's my real point.

2# This is very important... you're not recording an instrument you're recording an instrument in a room making air move. You're recording the source in it's environment and that environment contributes more to the sound than the mic, preamp or sound card. Before you spend a penny on gear make sure you have an understanding of room acoustics and what to do if your basement sounds like shit. You might need to spend some of that mic money on room treatment.

Ok you're 90% on your way to a good sound.

3# Any pro-audio mic with any pro-audio preamp and any pro-audio soundcard/audio interface will get you 95% of the way toward a good middle of the line sound. I'd recommend an MSH-1 from Naiant plugged into an audiobuddy as a minimum.

Bear in mind that most of the posts on this forum relate to attaining that last 5%. If you are new to recording and you read this forum it can be misleading and you might end up thinking that you need a ton of money on mics and that until you trade your house for a fancy preamp you'll never sound any good. Don't fall into that trap.

Good luck.
 
thank you barn owl and cusebassman for real answers. We are on a fairly small budget nothing over 300 for microphones and individual tracking
 
joe123456 said:
We are looking for a fairly good sound almost recording studio quality.
Click to expand...
i wouldn't discourage the attempt, but your limitations will make this goal difficult.

is the basement you're going to be recording in acoustically treated at all? if not, there are ways to at least dampen reflections where you're going to be recording (blankets, sleeping bags, duvets, etc.), though none will function as well as good acoustic treatment. otherwise basements can be terrible places to record.

if you know nothing about mics, do you know about recording (serious and honest question)? mic placement and gain staging will be really important for what you're trying to do. Make sure you don't overload the signal chain (which sounds like mic-pre/converter in the boss) at any point or you'll get unwanted analog or digital distortion, which if piled up over several tracks will sound terrible. it might be helpful if you can set up the recorder and computer (are you actually recording to the boss and then dumping tracks into the computer to mix?) in a separate area so that you can evaluate mic placement through headphones or speakers more carefully.

be prepared to be pragmatic and make many attempts before getting a decent to good sound. gaining experience in recording may be the best thing you can do at this point.

$300 for mics that will work on a drum kit, a vocalist and on horns is not a whole lot of money. maybe a matched pair of naiant msh-1 omnis, a couple used 57's as chessrock suggested, and a kel hm-1. you could record the drums with the naiants as overheads and a 57 on the kick and snare each. fewer mics will mean less phase problems and you can get a good sound with fewer mics. the 57's and kel could also be used for the vocals and horns (and guitar/bass amp eventually). that'd be around $300. the msh-1's and kel will only work if the boss can provide phantom power.
 
"Near recording studio quality" isn't a realistic goal, even with $20,000 worth of mics. :D

If I was in that situation, I think I might go with a pair of Octava MK-012s, and a pair of SM-57s.

Stick the 57s on kick and snare. Oktavas overhead. You could even use one of the Oktavas for vocals if you use a good, thick pop filter and aim the mic off-axis ... i.e. forehead height aimed down at the mouth. (People don't realize this, but the 012 makes for a pretty good vocal mic - sometimes excellent)

This will still put you well over budget, but at least you might have an outside, fighting chance of walking away with something that won't sound like a complete abomination of mankind. And you'll have some stuff that you can continue to use in the future as you move out of "abomination" in to "mild embarassment" territory.

.
 
chessrock said:
"Near recording studio quality" isn't a realistic goal, even with $20,000 worth of mics. :D

snip...

And you'll have some stuff that you can continue to use in the future as you move out of "abomination" in to "mild embarassment" territory.

.
Click to expand...

LOL. Hmmm, would it be useful to have a scale for rating recording quality that uses terms like these? I might enjoy rating some of my own work. I think I've moved beyond "abomination", at least. Maybe even beyond "mild embarrassment." What comes next, "undistinguished" or "so-so?" :)

Cheers,

Otto
 
chessrock said:
I would give it up and spend your money on something else if that's your goal. Given your current state of development, the only realistic outcome might be a fun little demo project. More than likely, it will sound utterly repugnant. :D By this time next year, maybe you'll work your way up to just "bad," and if you haven't given up on it five years from now, you might even make it to "pretty decent" at some point.

Right now, you might want to just use whatever you're using with your PA system; SM57s, etc. When you figure out what you're doing and what you think is missing, then come back and ask us what you should add.

As negative as I might come accross ... I'm just trying to give you another side of things (more based in reality) to consider.

.
Click to expand...

That isn't necessarily true. My first recordings were taping the band with a camcorder and importing the audio to CEP. These were repugnant. The next ones were an SM57, a karaoke mic, maybe an sm58, and some radioshack mics into an old powered mixer which was wired into an onboard sound card. I've heard major label band "demos" that sounded worse (well the performance part wasn't great). Give the guy some hope.
 
If your first recordings you make aren't in the "abomination" category, then something is seriously wrong. :D And it wouldn't be very good for one's development in terms of recording. You need to get the suck out of your system. It's only healthy and natural. You need to go through that cycle of listening to it on your speakers and thinking it's okay, then playing it on your girlfrieds' stereo only to have it sound way too bassy. :D

You need to go through the process of feeling like you are the master with all of your effects, EQ, etc. ... and then just pulverizing your mixes with way too much use of really bad effects and EQ.

One also needs to go through the process of thinking it's all about the gear, and if you had mic A or converter B or whatever, that your problems would be solved and bla bla bla bla ... only to come back full circle and make that realization that it's all about the source.

It's just the way things need to happen, and if you wind up skipping any of these little discovery processes, your development as an amateur recording engineer will likely be stunted.

And right now, our friend Joel is pretty much right on schedule, and we wouldn't want to mess with that. Right now, he's in phase one -- denial. The "How hard can it be? - I'm a musician with a good ear and I've played live and I know how to use a mixer and plug in a mic" ... phase. :D

He doesn't yet know what he doesn't know.

Step two will come in when he plays his stuff back on his girlfriends' boom box ... but let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here. Joel needs to relish and enjoy phase 1, because there will never be another opportunity for phase 1.

Now in terms of sonic quality, the progression goes as follows:

Abomination to mankind > Complete Embarassment > Really Bad > Girlfriend thinks it sound okay > Not the worst thing produced in the last 20 yrs > Very rough but showing promise > Still very rough but showing promise > Faint glimmer of home evident > Not a complete waste of sound waves > Mildly amusing > Nothing to write home about > Somewhat decent > Getting there > Mom and girlfriend think it's good > Dog doesn't howl too loud > Chessrock doesn't think it sucks > Pretty decent.

And once you get to pretty decent, you'll likely be stuck there for another 5 yrs or so until you start making improvements to your recording environment, wrapping your head around accoustics and just really applying all of the good practices you've learned, rather than simply regurgitating them on message boards and acting smart. :D Anyone guess what phase I'm in yet?

.
 
Yea I might be in denial about how it sounds too, I just went back and listened. I'm thinking about posting it up somewhere so everyone can tell me how bad it is. I definitely must have known nothing about gain staging or clipping at all for that matter. It sounds like I let it clip and then ran a brickwall on it.
 
chessrock said:
...it wouldn't be very good for one's development... You need to go through that cycle of listening to it on your speakers and thinking it's okay, then playing it on your girlfrieds' stereo only to have it sound way too bassy... You need to go through the process of feeling like you are the master with all of your effects, EQ, etc. ... and then just pulverizing your mixes with way too much use of really bad effects and EQ... One also needs to go through the process of thinking it's all about the gear, and if you had mic A or converter B or whatever, that your problems would be solved and bla bla bla bla ... only to come back full circle and make that realization that it's all about the source... It's just the way things need to happen, and if you wind up skipping any of these little discovery processes, your development as an amateur recording engineer will likely be stunted... And once you get to pretty decent, you'll likely be stuck there for another 5 yrs or so until you start making improvements to your recording environment, wrapping your head around accoustics and just really applying all of the good practices you've learned...
Click to expand...

+1



Rep for Chessrock on the way.
 
Thanks. I need a few greens here and there to kind of offset all the reds.

Kinda' makes it look a little more like Christmas if ya know what I mean. :D

.
 
alright so how can i improve the acoustics in my basement? Put blankets on the walls?
 
Shit........I just clicked the "scales" thingy on Chess's post ;).

Ah well, there's a first time for everything.


Joe,

What are the dimensions HxWxL etc., of your basement?

:cool:
 
chessrock said:
Now in terms of sonic quality, the progression goes as follows:

Abomination to mankind > Complete Embarassment > Really Bad > Girlfriend thinks it sound okay > Not the worst thing produced in the last 20 yrs > Very rough but showing promise > Still very rough but showing promise > Faint glimmer of home evident > Not a complete waste of sound waves > Mildly amusing > Nothing to write home about > Somewhat decent > Getting there > Mom and girlfriend think it's good > Dog doesn't howl too loud > Chessrock doesn't think it sucks > Pretty decent.



.
Click to expand...
I should put something like this in my sig. I'm at gf thinks its okay stage. don't tell my wife.
 
Last edited:
It boils down to this:

Do you WANT to learn how to record? Before you answer, understand that everything Chessrock said is true. You said near-studio quality (assuming you mean professional studio and not some $10 an hour bedroom studio). It will not happen on your first try. It will probably not happen for at least a couple of years.

It may very well be a waste of time and money...unless you WANT to learn and enjoy the process.

Most of us share the passion for learning this stuff, where we understand that failure is going to happen in the beginning - and we're ok with it. If that's you, then jump in and start learning.

If you do not want to undertake a huge learning curve and large expense in gear - spend the money at a real studio where your recording will sound good and you can focus on the music.

BTW I played in a Ska band back in the early 90's (2nd wave revival stuff - not the ska-punk the kids play today). Great stuff if you can find good musicians. We were all college music majors and had our shit together for the most part. Gigged our asses off too. Good times.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top